Carlton are the one to watch out for - They can win The Premiership

[Heeney2Franklin]

If a club can time their run perfectly dont be surprised to see a team in the GF from outside the top 4.

 

[danster168]

We have no depth by what metric? Let me guess... We can't cover Charlie Curnow the 2 time Coleman medallist or Patrick Cripps the captain of the club and best player at Carlton?

By what metric? I just told you the metric. The bottom 4-5 players are hopeless.

 

[Ambrosia]

If a club can time their run perfectly dont be surprised to see a team in the GF from outside the top 4.

It does feel like a year where a team could get hot going into finals and snatch a flag.

That being said given the closeness of the ladder there’s a fair chance that team would propel themselves into top 4 pre finals

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

By what metric? I just told you the metric. The bottom 4-5 players are hopeless.

You think Boyd, Fogarty, Cowan, and Cincotta are hopeless yet you won a premiership with a completely cooked Ben Brown, Charlie Spargo, James Harmes and Tom Sparrow... Do you not see how ridiculous this argument is?

Hollands and Fantasia are fair game but will be replaced if others get healthy before finals.

 

[Ambrosia]

By what metric? I just told you the metric. The bottom 4-5 players are hopeless.

Name a markedly better bottom 5 ?

It’s the nature of talent distribution there just isn’t as much difference between the 250th best player in the league vs the 350th best player.

Underperforming role players is due to the top end talent not being up to it and/or coaching staff not putting them in a position to succeed

 

[danster168]

You think Boyd, Fogarty, Cowan, and Cincotta are hopeless yet you won a premiership with a completely cooked Ben Brown, Charlie Spargo, James Harmes and Tom Sparrow... Do you not see how ridiculous this argument is?

Hollands and Fantasia are fair game but will be replaced if others get healthy before finals.

Brown was still averaging 2 goals per game in 2021. He was cooked in 2022. Harmes was averaging 21 touches a game in 2021. Agree on Sparrow and Spargo.

 

[danster168]

Name a markedly better bottom 5 ?

It’s the nature of talent distribution there just isn’t as much difference between the 250th best player in the league vs the 350th best player.

Underperforming role players is due to the top end talent and/or coaching staff not putting them in a position to succeed

Collingwood's bottom 5 with a full team would be: Markov, Kreuger/Cox, Tom Mitchell, Harvey Harrison, Noble.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Brown was still averaging 2 goals per game in 2021. He was cooked in 2022. Harmes was averaging 21 touches a game in 2021. Agree on Sparrow.

Harmes was still a butcher with ball in hand, much like he has been his entire career. Ben Brown was a ****truck getting on the end of the best midfield in the comps good work. Hardly impressive to average 2 goals a game with Petracca, Viney, Gawn and Oliver slamming it down your throat 1000 times a game.

Boyd, Cincotta, Fogarty and Cowan play lock down defensive roles for us so that others can be freed up such as Newman, Saad, Williams, Elijah Hollands etc. They have pretty solid records in those roles, Boyd also happens to be one of the best kicks in the comp but is more often tasked with defending. Fogarty is exactly like Spargo and ANB were for the Dees - Elite pressure and works tirelessly to create scores for others which is why he's rated elite for GA's and consistently high score involvements despite not being a noted goal kicker himself.

To say they aren't up to standard is just stupid. Every premiership team for the last decade has had half a dozen of these types and with the salary cap the way it is I think it's a safe bet to say the next dozen will be similar too.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Collingwood's bottom 5 with a full team would be: Markov, Kreuger/Cox, Tom Mitchell, Harvey Harrison, Noble.

A full Carlton team would be:

Marchbank Weitering Boyd
Newman Mcgovern Saad
Acres Cripps Docherty
E.Hollands Mckay Fogarty
Williams Curnow Martin
Dekoning Cerra Walsh

Cottrell Cincotta Motlop Kennedy/Hewett

I hardly think that's some level below the standard. Docherty's out injured so Cottrell will likely move up to his wing when fully fit (just returned from a lengthy injury) and Martin, Marchbank and Motlop are all trying to get match fit in time for finals.

To me looks every bit a capable list, outside of needing a bit of leg speed in there for certain match ups we struggle against. We're a fairly big and bulky team.

 

[danster168]

Harmes was still a butcher with ball in hand, much like he has been his entire career. Ben Brown was a ****truck getting on the end of the best midfield in the comps good work. Hardly impressive to average 2 goals a game with Petracca, Viney, Gawn and Oliver slamming it down your throat 1000 times a game.

Boyd, Cincotta, Fogarty and Cowan play lock down defensive roles for us so that others can be freed up such as Newman, Saad, Williams, Elijah Hollands etc. They have pretty solid records in those roles, Boyd also happens to be one of the best kicks in the comp but is more often tasked with defending. Fogarty is exactly like Spargo and ANB were for the Dees - Elite pressure and works tirelessly to create scores for others which is why he's rated elite for GA's and consistently high score involvements despite not being a noted goal kicker himself.

To say they aren't up to standard is just stupid. Every premiership team for the last decade has had half a dozen of these types and with the salary cap the way it is I think it's a safe bet to say the next dozen will be similar too.

Nah Harmes is a decent kick. Not sure who you've been watching. Don't get me wrong, I bloody hate Ben Brown and I did in 2021 but he still took the best defender every week and kicked 2 goals a game. and kicked 3 in the granny so I don't think he was completely washed by then.

Until Carlton smashes Melbourne I consider the teams very even. Every game has been close with games decided by a kick or less. Carltons fwds a truckload better obviously.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Nah Harmes is a decent kick. Not sure who you've been watching. Don't get me wrong, I bloody hate Ben Brown and I did in 2021 but he still took the best defender every week and kicked 2 goals a game. and kicked 3 in the granny so I don't think he was completely washed by then.

Until Carlton smashes Melbourne I consider the teams very even. Every game has been close with games decided by a kick or less. Carltons fwds a truckload better obviously.

How many teams blow Melbourne at full strength away? You're one of the most dour defensive units in the comp. Even still, when we last played if it wasn't for Petracca producing one of the best games of the season we likely would have ran away fairly comfortably.

 

[Yoda_]

A full Carlton team would be:

Marchbank Weitering Boyd
Newman Mcgovern Saad
Acres Cripps Docherty
E.Hollands Mckay Fogarty
Williams Curnow Martin
Dekoning Cerra Walsh

Cottrell Cincotta Motlop Kennedy/Hewett

I hardly think that's some level below the standard. Docherty's out injured so Cottrell will likely move up to his wing when fully fit (just returned from a lengthy injury) and Martin, Marchbank and Motlop are all trying to get match fit in time for finals.

To me looks every bit a capable list, outside of needing a bit of leg speed in there for certain match ups we struggle against. We're a fairly big and bulky team.

I don't think its leg speed, it's a dynamic forward capable of turning a game on its head. Every premiership team has one. Bobby Hill last year, Tyson Stengle in 2022, Petracca controlled that grand final second half whilst Fritsch kicked 6 in 2021.

2020 was on the back of some bloke called Dustin Martin.



Who is the Blues version? I could see Motlop possibly doing this whilst Jack Martin has I in his arsenal's can he do it on gar big stage?

 

[danster168]

A full Carlton team would be:

Marchbank Weitering Boyd
Newman Mcgovern Saad
Acres Cripps Docherty
E.Hollands Mckay Fogarty
Williams Curnow Martin
Dekoning Cerra Walsh

Cottrell Cincotta Motlop Kennedy/Hewett

I hardly think that's some level below the standard. Docherty's out injured so Cottrell will likely move up to his wing when fully fit (just returned from a lengthy injury) and Martin, Marchbank and Motlop are all trying to get match fit in time for finals.

To me looks every bit a capable list, outside of needing a bit of leg speed in there for certain match ups we struggle against. We're a fairly big and bulky team.

Good post. Yeah it definitely looks good. I mean, it always looks good with Curnow and Mckay in there. I'm so jealous of those 2.

Can you list your A graders, B graders, C graders?

A+: Walsh, Cripps, Dekoning, Curnow
A: Weitering (maybe harsh), Mckay
B: Newman, Saad, Docherty, Cerra, Acres, Owies (i ratę him and put him ahead of Motlop personally), Kennedy, E.Hollands, Z.Williams
C: Marchbank, McGovern, Martin, Boyd, Fogarty, Cottrell, Cincotta.

 

[danster168]

How many teams blow Melbourne at full strength away? You're one of the most dour defensive units in the comp. Even still, when we last played if it wasn't for Petracca producing one of the best games of the season we likely would have ran away fairly comfortably.

Well we used to be. We've been much more leaky this year. But I think melbourne just matches up okay on Carlton because May and Lever usually do okay on your big dogs. We're sort of rebuilding on the go now. And with Gawn out for 2-3 weeks and petracca out we've started blooding some kids which I'm okay with.

yeah that last game was weird. But then I remember the Van Rooyen dangerous tackles made me throw the remote. Let's not argue over that again. Carlton deserved the win for their good start.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Good post. Yeah it definitely looks good. I mean, it always looks good with Curnow and Mckay in there. I'm so jealous of those 2.

Can you list your A graders, B graders, C graders?

A+: Walsh, Cripps, Dekoning, Curnow
A: Weitering (maybe harsh), Mckay
B: Newman, Saad, Docherty, Cerra, Acres, Owies (i ratę him and put him ahead of Motlop personally), Kennedy, E.Hollands, Z.Williams
C: Marchbank, McGovern, Martin, Boyd, Fogarty, Cottrell, Cincotta.

I think that's about correct, Mcgovern I'd have comfortably in the B tier and Martin has A+ talent but obviously is as rare to see as rocking horse s***. The rest I think are fairly accurate, probably switch Weitering and Dekoning at this stage.

I don't see that list being outside the capabilities of winning a premiership, we just need replacements for Hollands and Fantasia to get fit imo and we'll be a solid chance. Unlike Fogarty and Cowan etc, Hollands and Orazio are genuine liabilities at the moment and get exploited by opposition.

 

[Yoda_]

Superstar - Cripps, Curnow
A - Grader - Walsh, McKay, Weitering,
B - Grader - DeKoning, Saad, Newman, Cerra, Acres, (Docherty)
C - Grader - Kennedy, Williams, E.Hollands, McGovern
D - Grader - Owies, Marchbank, Martin, Fogarty, Cotrell, Cincotta

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I don't think its leg speed, it's a dynamic forward capable of turning a game on its head. Every premiership team has one. Bobby Hill last year, Tyson Stengle in 2022, Petracca controlled that grand final second half whilst Fritsch kicked 6 in 2021.

2020 was on the back of some bloke called Dustin Martin.



Who is the Blues version? I could see Motlop possibly doing this whilst Jack Martin has I in his arsenal's can he do it on gar big stage?

I'd argue thats Curnow for us. He's capable of anything when he's up and going. Williams and Martin aren't as good as Stengle or Fritsch but they would be the next cab off the rank for us in terms of 'X-Factor' moments type players.

 

[Yoda_]

I think that's about correct, Mcgovern I'd have comfortably in the B tier and Martin has A+ talent but obviously is as rare to see as rocking horse s***. The rest I think are fairly accurate, probably switch Weitering and Dekoning at this stage.

I don't see that list being outside the capabilities of winning a premiership, we just need replacements for Hollands and Fantasia to get fit imo and we'll be a solid chance. Unlike Fogarty, Cowan etc, Hollands and Orazio are genuine liabilities at the moment and get exploited by opposition.

Is there anyone in the twos who looks like pushing Orazio and Elijah out?

 

[Yoda_]

I'd argue thats Curnow for us. He's capable of anything when he's up and going. Williams and Martin aren't as good as Stengle or Fritsch but they would be the next cab off the rank for us in terms of 'X-Factor' moments type players.

yeah, fair call. All the guys who I think of are dynamic smalls (meidums at a stretch in the Fritcsch mould), Curnow maybe stretches that description but the point remains.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

yeah, fair call. All the guys who I think of are dynamic smalls (meidums at a stretch in the Fritcsch mould), Curnow maybe stretches that description but the point remains.

Don't disagree with the premise and until Williams started kicking goals out his ass this season I was firmly in the camp that we can't win the flag this year for the very reason you mention. He and Hollands have changed our forward mix considerably and we're scoring as freely as we have in years.

If I'm our list manager I'm still going hard at the best small forward/half forward we can get at our pick. Durdin and Motlop don't inspire confidence in me as much as they did when they first started looking to the future.

 

[Yoda_]

Don't disagree with the premise and until Williams started kicking goals out his ass this season I was firmly in the camp that we can't win the flag this year for the very reason you mention. He and Hollands have changed our forward mix considerably and we're scoring as freely as we have in years.

If I'm our list manager I'm still going hard at the best small forward/half forward we can get at our pick. Durdin and Motlop don't inspire confidence in me as much as they did when they first started looking to the future.

Motlop at least looks dynamic. his game in the VFL against us the other week was very good. Obviously needs to translate to the next level but I wouldn't lose the faith.

 

[Thrawn]

That's a fine summation you have come up with there Jeremias but honestly, I post my opinion on football and if that happens to be like the one I just did above, implying Carlton are not the team to watch out for (GWS a far greater chance of winning the 2024 premiership), I'm not sure why you take offense to this.

Honestly, I don't see the current hype surrounding Carlton. Wonderful talent within the likes of Walsh, Curnow, Cripps and Weitering but then it falls away
Sure' you can say that about every team but their mid-tier players are fairly consistent and you know what you are going on a week-to-week basis.
Currently, Carlton have about 5 or 6 guys playing above their limit and it's not going to be sustainable for the rest of the season.

All teams hit bad patches throughout the year. It's all about heating up and playing dynamic footy rounds 22 onward.
Can see a few other teams clicking into gear whereas Carlton have showed their hand a little too soon.

They're not a "far greater chance". They need to finish top 4 to do that, so far this year they've been up and down. We don't really play too well up in Sydney, the 'G is another proposition entirely and I back my team to beat them down here. You keep on saying that "it falls away" yet it has been our lesser role players who have been good enough to get up to 2nd so far. Without them, you don't see 8+ individual goalkickers for the past month or so.

 

[Thrawn]

Teams with designs on the premiership don't do this...

View attachment 2042949

Better premiership designs than a team who will struggle to even make the 8.

 

[Thrawn]

Is there anyone in the twos who looks like pushing Orazio and Elijah out?

Elijah? I think you've named the wrong Holland.

 

[Yoda_]

Elijah? I think you've named the wrong Holland.

to be fair, a first name wasn't included