Carlton Game Injury Realities

[Wood_Duck]

SP

mate all seriousness stop throwing stones with little to no basis

Nutter's injury is a freak injury with no connection to his physical conditioning.

Quite simply you are wrong, Nutter had plenty of injury concerns at the dogs as he was actually on a modified program for 2-3 years and as a result played 5kg over his ideal playing and this is why he played more up forward with the dogs rather in the midfield........

it was only last season Nutter started to get over his injury concerns and there is no doubt in my mind that he had to change his body shape to play at AFL level

Hang on just a minute, nearly missed this one. Ian did not have a history of injury at the bulldogs. He did a hammy in 2009 and went on a modified program in 2010 as a result. Until 2009 he had missed only a handfull of games due to injury.

From memory I reckon he played every game in 2007, he missed a couple in 2008 and missed about 6 with his hammy in 2009, cant gurantee it bit I reckon 2010 was injury free.

 

[Coopers]

[youtube]DgbuHV3U2Pc[/youtube]

You're posting this because it's the perfect example of changing your body shape to play AFL, right?

Dew lost like 15 kilos, and was still borderline best 22.

 

[Slippery Pete]

You're posting this because it's the perfect example of changing your body shape to play AFL, right?

Dew lost like 15 kilos, and was still borderline best 22.

Are you suggesting that he was not over his "ideal playing weight" in that video?

 

[Vader]

Are you suggesting that he was not over his "ideal playing weight" in that video?

He was well above his "ideal playing weight" - despite having lost 15kg since joining Hawthorn at the start of the season. Compare his body shape in this game with his shape while playing for Port 24 months earlier..

He was probably the 22nd player selected for Hawthorn's GF team - largely as a result of his weight & fitness issues. What made him exceedingly valuable was his ability to kick goals from well outside the 50m arc, something which wasn't weight dependent. Of course, his ability to get the ball in the first place is another matter.

 

[Slippery Pete]

. What made him exceedingly valuable was his ability to kick goals from well outside the 50m arc, something which wasn't weight dependent. Of course, his ability to get the ball in the first place is another matter.

This sounds like thinly-velied wholehearted agreement to me

What makes Callinan so good is his ability to read the play, crumb from tall forwards and convert in front of the sticks. Attributes that may also not be weight dependent.

Dew was one of the recruits of the decade. And Hawthorn knew he didn't have to be at his "ideal playing weight" to be hugely effective. In fact getting him back down to that weight may have been counter-productive.

 

[Vader]

This sounds like thinly-velied wholehearted agreement to me

What makes Callinan so good is his ability to read the play, crumb from tall forwards and convert in front of the sticks. Attributes that may also not be weight dependent.

Dew was one of the recruits of the decade. And Hawthorn knew he didn't have to be at his "ideal playing weight" to be hugely effective. In fact getting him back down to that weight may have been counter-productive.

There is no way that getting Dew down to his ideal weight would have been counter productive. I imagine they would have been fapping themselves at the thought of him producing constantly throughout the game, rather than the occasional 3 min cameo before his engine ran out of steam. In the end, Hawthorn identified a need which even a grossly unfit Dew was able to fill. They got away with it and won a flag as a result. Good luck to them. I dare say that 9 teams out of 10 who recruited a player this badly overweight would not have the same good fortune.

Callinan's ability to read the play is vital. However, he also needs to be able to get himself to the foot of enough marking contests - which is fitness dependent. Given that one of his traits is also his tackling ability, he also needs to be fit & fast enough to be able to chase his opponents - definitely fitness/weight dependent.

 

[Slippery Pete]

There is no way that getting Dew down to his ideal weight would have been counter productive. I imagine they would have been fapping themselves at the thought of him producing constantly throughout the game, rather than the occasional 3 min cameo before his engine ran out of steam..

Yes it would have Vader. They would've had to flog him. During the season. Massively counter-productive to have a guy on a weight loss regime during the year. Once you front up after pre-season, that's pretty much what you're working with for the rest of the year. There's minimal scope for body changes during the season if you want a player to be performing on the field. Dew was overweight in 2008 but he was fresh, match fit and ready to perform a role. The very role they recruited him for.

Callinan's ability to read the play is vital. However, he also needs to be able to get himself to enough contests - which is fitness dependent. Given that one of his traits is also his tackling ability, he also needs to be fit & fast enough to be able to chase his opponents - definitely fitness/weight dependent.

I just hope they don't overdo it. I'd rather see him a few kilos over his "ideal" playing weight, playing the type of football we know he's capable of. Rather than a guy who's half a yard quicker but suddenly loses penetration on his kick and the ability to stand his ground.

 

[Vader]

Yes it would have Vader. He only played the one season didnt he? They would've had to flog him. During the season. Massively counter-productive to have a guy on a weight loss regime during the year. Once you front up after pre-season, that's pretty much what you're working with for the rest of the year. There's minimal scope for body changes during the season if you want a player to be performing on the field. Dew was overweight but he was fresh, match fit and ready to perform a role. The very role they recruited him for.

I think you're being incredibly generous suggesting that Dew was ever "match fit" during the 2008 season.

I agree that you can't flog a player to lose weight and expect them to perform in games as well. For the most part they didn't - he missed 10 of the first 17 games as they tried (in vain) to whip him into shape. To all intents and purposes, Dew's pre-season began the day he decided to nominate for the draft and didn't stop until R18, when he was finally fit enough to play with the big boys on a consistent basis.

I just hope they don't overdo it. I'd rather see him a few kilos over his playing weight, playing the type of football we know he's capable of. Rather than a guy who's half a yard quicker but suddenly loses penetration on his kick and the ability to stand his ground.

I think we all hope that they don't over do it - and there are no signs to date that they have. That said, at Callinan's height, weight & speed, that "half a yard quicker" may be the difference between him having an AFL career and him going down in history as a good SANFL player who never quite made the grade. Don't forget that he's been around for a long time - his height & speed have always been counted against him. If Adelaide's fitness regime can help him gain that little bit he needs to make it, then that has to be regarded as a positive.

You do make a valid point though about swings and roundabouts. What he gains in pace, he loses in strength. That has to be a judgement call, especially for a player like Callinan who is already on the borderline when it comes to being physically suited to the AFL. I'll back the coaching staff, who are professionals, to get it right over an armchair critic any day of the week.

 

[cmndstab]

Slippery Pete - are you arguing just for the sake of being contrary, or do you really believe that we forced Callinan down to a lower weight and thereby caused his bicep injury?

 

[Wood_Duck]

Slippery Pete - are you arguing just for the sake of being contrary, or do you really believe that we forced Callinan down to a lower weight and thereby caused his bicep injury?

Like I've said before. I reckon he would have done most of it on his own. He hasnt been happy with his playing weight. I hadnt realised that he had actually stepped back training since he started having hammy trouble in 2008. With his hammy better he and the fitness staff obviously decided to ramp up the training and take the weight off. I have absolutely no doubt that this contributed to his bicep injury.

 

[BACCS]

It seems like Adelaide will never get it right with some of our supporters, even if they are freak injuries. I wonder is Symonds tore his bicep from trimming his weight.... highly doubt it.

 

[footy4ever]

At least this thread has given me a laugh amid the bad news of injuries.

That news is getting better by the day though. Jeez, that's gotta embarrass some of the genius logic presented in here.

I got out of my car the other day and banged my knee on the door. Bugger! If I barracked for anyone other than the crows, it never would have happened.

cheers and beers.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

What a ridiculous comment. It was effectively two seasons ago, it's the same era of football. You are acting like I've posted something from 1975.

you don't believe that the game has changed rapidly is such a short period of time, in particular the number of rotations.

Maybe you should ask Tyson Edwards just how much the game had changed between 2009 to 2010, the game quickly catches us with you, even more so for someone of Dew's conditioning

And of course after couple seasons in a good paddock Dew was drafted at an ideal playing weight with no need at all to drop any weight what so ever

 

[Slippery Pete]

Slippery Pete - are you arguing just for the sake of being contrary, or do you really believe that we forced Callinan down to a lower weight and thereby caused his bicep injury?

There were two separate discussions. One was whether the regime - which he was unaccustomed to - contributed to his injury.

The other was whether Callinan at a significantly lighter weight can be the player that we want him to be. I hope he can, but it remains to be seen.