Review Cats beat Lions by 10 points.

[PhatBoy]

There is no doubt that the last goal from Hawk was push... I suspect the bris player accentuated it but it was there.....and there were several others in the game were like that. If we went back a few years , all of them would be hands in the back but that has eased, and one of the fundamentals of footy imo, is to gauge how the umpire calls it in the game. If he is not calling the push... then push away. Call them you adjust.

The side worked hard and wasted so many chances. Hawkins himself should have had a 7 goal game , maybe thats why when all is said and done he will be short of that next level. No shame in that , few reach it.

How do we think Danger is travelling? Doing a lot of heavy dirty work but not much of the flash.

Sdek certainly has the crowd on the side. Showing plenty considering the games played.

I thought that was the best we have played , against the best opponent..and it was only our conversion that hid our form. We seem to have a bigger group of smalls , and I think that marking is a weakness but we seem to be finishing off games well.


Now on to Hawks at the G...another test.

What next level? He is on the verge of probably being the best key forward in the entire competition for half a decade if he can maintain decent form to the end of the year.
Not being in the Carey/Lockett/Ablett etc tier of key forwards isn’t a failure

 

[iameviljez]

What next level? He is on the verge of probably being the best key forward in the entire competition for half a decade if he can maintain decent form to the end of the year.

If there is one thing keeping Hawkins from being seen as not just one of the best key forwards of his generation, but instead of the whole modern era, it's that he doesn't kick that really big bag of goals.

He is a great player, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't have that "freak" game in him where he kicks 10.

 

[cats_09]

Good on the Lions social media team - saying what we all basically think after a loss

 

[DanA]

We finished 3rd last season in the home and away and were a game away from the GF although not all that competitive in the finals. We weren’t a million miles away but to me it was clear the game style was significantly harder to maintain under finals pressure.

So I’m glad to see that style change and hold up against a strong Brisbane side despite a few key outs (Selwood, Menegola, Stewart).

I think the new game style fits fantastically and having the running power of Blicavs, Smith, O’Connor, Miers and Holmes in the midfield really came to the fore in the 4th quarter.

To me that’s where our advantage lies. Squeeze in Selwood, Stewart, and Menegola and that competitive advantage only grows. If we are to beat the likes of Melbourne I think our best hope is running them off their feet as we kind of did against Brisbane.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

We finished 3rd last season in the home and away and were a game away from the GF although not all that competitive in the finals. We weren’t a million miles away but to me it was clear the game style was significantly harder to maintain under finals pressure.

So I’m glad to see that style change and hold up against a strong Brisbane side despite a few key outs (Selwood, Menegola, Stewart).

I think the new game style fits fantastically and having the running power of Blicavs, Smith, O’Connor, Miers and Holmes in the midfield really came to the fore in the 4th quarter.

To me that’s where our advantage lies. Squeeze in Selwood, Stewart, and Menegola and that competitive advantage only grows. If we are to beat the likes of Melbourne I think our best hope is running them off their feet as we kind of did against Brisbane.

Gawn Petracca and Oliver - 3 Champion players - youve somehow got to stop them

Gawn what he did in the 3rd qtr of that PF - Geel players and supporters will have nightmares about that - he was like King Kong - Superman - a Giant in the jungle - unstoppable - indestructable - kicking goals ( his skill level has really improved

When those 3 crank it into top gear - god help any oppostion - and Ben Brown at FF ( who id never ever rated ) those bombs from the centre to FF - Ben Brown absolutely destroyed Blicavs in one on one marking contests - and Mark Blicavs is a very good spoiler - Blicavs was in total shock

 

[DanA]

Gawn Petracca and Oliver - 3 Champion players - youve somehow got to stop them

Gawn what he did in the 3rd qtr of that PF - Geel players and supporters will have nightmares about that - he was like King Kong - Superman - a Giant in the jungle - unstoppable - indestructable - kicking goals ( his skill level has really improved

When those 3 crank it into top gear - god help any oppostion - and Ben Brown at FF ( who id never ever rated ) those bombs from the centre to FF - Ben Brown absolutely destroyed Blicavs in one on one marking contests - and Mark Blicavs is a very good spoiler - Blicavs was in total shock

That particular game we had no Stewart, no O’Connor, and half the team were out on their feet with a virus that swept through the playing group.

But I also think the game style was doomed with how dominate Gawn and their midfield group are at stoppages. Combine that with Melbourne’s defensive organisation…..It’s pretty hard to get much joy once Gawn/Lever have had time to setup behind the ball.

But if you can hit Melbourne on transition, Langdon aside, they don’t have the best runners, and I feel like we have the right forwardline to hurt them.

 

[Turbocat]

What next level? He is on the verge of probably being the best key forward in the entire competition for half a decade if he can maintain decent form to the end of the year.
Not being in the Carey/Lockett/Ablett etc tier of key forwards isn’t a failure

Failure? He is a very good player. Will kick 700 goals ina very good career but he is just short of that next level. No shame in that most are.

 

[CabWesty]

If we're just running the elites numbers on goals alone, then Hawkins won't be elite.
But none of Lockett, Dunstall, Franklin etc did or do the same bullocking ruck work in the forward line that Hawkins does to give goals to his teammates.
Nor have they particularly had the slow delivery onto their head that enables double and triple teaming. (This has been one of my biggest frustrations with the Cats over the last decade. Lower your eyes, open up the space in front of him and let the Hawk go for it.)

 

[PhatBoy]

Failure? He is a very good player. Will kick 700 goals ina very good career but he is just short of that next level. No shame in that most are.

No I get that but really the only level above him is the genuine forward immortals

 

[Romeoh1]

If there is one thing keeping Hawkins from being seen as not just one of the best key forwards of his generation, but instead of the whole modern era, it's that he doesn't kick that really big bag of goals.

He is a great player, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't have that "freak" game in him where he kicks 10.

He has been consistently high in goal assists for years- maybe if he didn’t do that he’d get more bags? Or maybe the era of forwards kicking a bag is gone for the moment?

 

[catempire]

On Hawkins, it’s probably multiple reasons why he hasn’t kicked more goals but a pretty strong indication it is more about the era of football than his limitations is that two contemporaries who started within 12 months of him are also within 40 odd goals of him. The list also shows what a freak Franklin is to have kicked 1000 in this era. Peerless.

 

[iameviljez]

He has been consistently high in goal assists for years- maybe if he didn’t do that he’d get more bags? Or maybe the era of forwards kicking a bag is gone for the moment?

I think it's more about him not being quite as dynamic since his back injury, so he's not able to get the same separation off an opponent.

His contemporaries in Kennedy, Riewoldt, Franklin and Cameron all have/had that kind of game in them, I don't think it's about the era so much as the player's limitations.

Don't get me wrong, he'll still go down as one of the best key forwards of his generation. But the difference between that and being one of the best key forwards of the era is the big, big bag.

 

[Seeds]

I think it's more about him not being quite as dynamic since his back injury, so he's not able to get the same separation off an opponent.

His contemporaries in Kennedy, Riewoldt, Franklin and Cameron all have/had that kind of game in them, I don't think it's about the era so much as the player's limitations.

Don't get me wrong, he'll still go down as one of the best key forwards of his generation. But the difference between that and being one of the best key forwards of the era is the big, big bag.

Agree. His back injury took a few dimensions away from him game that curtailed him.

our game plan for the past 5 years hasnt helped either.

 

[Seeds]

On Hawkins, it’s probably multiple reasons why he hasn’t kicked more goals but a pretty strong indication it is more about the era of football than his limitations is that two contemporaries who started within 12 months of him are also within 40 odd goals of him. The list also shows what a freak Franklin is to have kicked 1000 in this era. Peerless.

View attachment 1368239

But that argument doesnt work as those contempories have all kicked big bags. Riewoldt has three bags of 10. As does josh kennedy.

 

[catempire]

But that argument doesnt work as those contempories have all kicked big bags. Riewoldt has three bags of 10. As does josh kennedy.

Doesn’t work for what? They’ve ended up nearly on the same tally. It just means Hawkins is more consistent.

 

[Romeoh1]

I think it's more about him not being quite as dynamic since his back injury, so he's not able to get the same separation off an opponent.

His contemporaries in Kennedy, Riewoldt, Franklin and Cameron all have/had that kind of game in them, I don't think it's about the era so much as the player's limitations.

Don't get me wrong, he'll still go down as one of the best key forwards of his generation. But the difference between that and being one of the best key forwards of the era is the big, big bag.

Yep, probably agree with most of this and agree the back injury impacted on him. I’d still be interested to see how those other key forwards fared in the goals assists category too. Hawkins has a versaitility to his game that is so impactful.

 

[iameviljez]

our game plan for the past 5 years hasnt helped either.

Completely agree with this. You've got a forward who is almost unbeatable one-on-one, if anyone could benefit from moving it fast, it's him.

 

[Seeds]

Doesn’t work for what? They’ve ended up nearly on the same tally. It just means Hawkins is more consistent.

We are all talking about ability to kick big bags of goals in single games are we not? Not overall goal tallys.

 

[iameviljez]

Yep, probably agree with most of this and agree the back injury impacted on him. I’d still be interested to see how those other key forwards fared in the goals assists category too. Hawkins has a versaitility to his game that is so impactful.

That 2012 game vs Hawthorn was one of the best CHF games from limited opportunities I've seen for a while.

 

[Romeoh1]

That 2012 game vs Hawthorn was one of the best CHF games from limited opportunities I've seen for a while.

Yes, marvellous footballer and how fortunate we have been to have him all these years.

 

[PhatBoy]

We are all talking about ability to kick big bags of goals in single games are we not? Not overall goal tallys.

Yes we get it it, though Riewoldt himself has only done it 3 times and while that’s 3 more times than Tom has - and two of those 3 were in absolute demolitions - it doesn’t strike me as the most important metric in the world. Kennedy too has done it 3 times and those three were in matches west coast won by a combined 300 points.

 

[Seeds]

Yes we get it it, though Riewoldt himself has only done it 3 times and while that’s 3 more times than Tom has - and two of those 3 were in absolute demolitions - it doesn’t strike me as the most important metric in the world. Kennedy too has done it 3 times and those three were in matches west coast won by a combined 300 points.

No it is not the most important metric.

wayne carey only did it twice. He wasnt one to kick big bags either despite playing full foward in the nineties. his strengths were elsewhere. A bit like hawkins.

 

[catempire]

We are all talking about ability to kick big bags of goals in single games are we not? Not overall goal tallys.

I wasn’t. I was making the point that what has constrained Hawkins most from kicking more goals in his career is probably the gamestyle of the era given two contemporaries have very similar goal tallies (and average per game).

 

[PhatBoy]

No it is not the most important metric.

wayne carey only did it twice. He wasnt one to kick big bags either despite playing full foward in the nineties. his strengths were elsewhere. A bit like hawkins.

Absolutely. I think if at any stage a directive had been given ‘ok your sole job is to kick goals. Don’t worry about anything else. Catch it. Kick it.’ He probably would have had a few games in double figures.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Riewoldt’s big bags came before he started to develop his all round game

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I wasn’t. I was making the point that what has constrained Hawkins most from kicking more goals in his career is probably the gamestyle of the era given two contemporaries have very similar goal tallies (and average per game).

and his unselfishness for goal assists being greater than his peers.