Unofficial Preview Changes and discussion Qualifying Final @ ? v Demons.

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Section 5 said:
Birchall missed one game this year and that was a late out
He will play and has had a solid year
His experience in finals will be a benefit

I would like to see Kiddy play assuming his injury suffered very late in the game was minor
Having finished 4th and get a second chance we could see how he goes in a final.
Robbo had a calf and with his age i hope it is not going to hang around because of his age
If Robbo is okay he comes in along with Andrews
Adams played well and should hold his spot
Fagan likes to keep changes to a minimum and reward a winning team
Going to be hard on selectors
Players at risk being: Prior, Lester, Ah Chee, Coleman & Gardiner (just does not look right YET).
Click to expand...
No way in the world is Callum Ah Chee in danger of being omitted.
 
Section 5 said:
Birchall missed one game this year and that was a late out
He will play and has had a solid year
His experience in finals will be a benefit
Click to expand...

Would have thought we have plenty in the side with finals experience by now.

Defensively exposed far too often, and his last month has been terrible. When you look at the opposition next week it is only harder - young hard runners that are goal threats. Even turning over the ball far too regularly now. Incredible commentators don’t see it (perhaps it isn’t).

It’s time to win & we can’t carry anyone anymore. The call needs to be made.
 

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Prior did a few good things last night.. Was in the right spot at the tight time as well.
Rather we kept him although Kiddy had prob his best game.
M Robbo still ahead of both so you assume one goes as will not be Birchall. who not been bad we just lack pace.
Lester for Andrews.
Fullarton playing better although gets monstered in the ruck stil. Missed everything shooting at goal. Although Charlie did it twice :)
Not sure how many ruck contests he got after half time
Seemed Oscar just soldiered on 90% game time.
Do not think we go for Archie now. Around the ground Archie can go missing as well.

Watched the Cats v Demons like most of us.. Mirrored our game against them.
They just get a run on from HB or Mids. Then Cats kicked it to Lever, Petty and May over and over.
Salem and new kid Bowery ran hard off the HB line.
Cats defence is not crap although if the ball keeps flying into forward 50 weight of numbers.
Looking at the stats
The two big diff
Tackles defensive 50: 20-6 Demons way
Contested marks forward 50: 12-2 Demons way. Stewart out say not help with this

Hope Demons used up a lot of reserves to come back last night :) I doubt it be a good game
I assume in SA
 
If he plays this week - Fullarton just has to impact otherwise we will be in all sorts.
If he’s down forward anyone playing on him will sag off and impact Daniher and Mcstay in the air.
Probably goes for anyone down forward including the above 2.
Going to need our best tackling performance of the year also - especially from our mids.
 
davemc_lions said:
Prior did a few good things last night.. Was in the right spot at the tight time as well.
Rather we kept him although Kiddy had prob his best game.
M Robbo still ahead of both so you assume one goes as will not be Birchall. who not been bad we just lack pace.
Lester for Andrews.
Fullarton playing better although gets monstered in the ruck stil. Missed everything shooting at goal. Although Charlie did it twice :)
Not sure how many ruck contests he got after half time
Seemed Oscar just soldiered on 90% game time.
Do not think we go for Archie now. Around the ground Archie can go missing as well.

Watched the Cats v Demons like most of us.. Mirrored our game against them.
They just get a run on from HB or Mids. Then Cats kicked it to Lever, Petty and May over and over.
Salem and new kid Bowery ran hard off the HB line.
Cats defence is not crap although if the ball keeps flying into forward 50 weight of numbers.
Looking at the stats
The two big diff
Tackles defensive 50: 20-6 Demons way
Contested marks forward 50: 12-2 Demons way. Stewart out say not help with this

Hope Demons used up a lot of reserves to come back last night :) I doubt it be a good game
I assume in SA
Click to expand...
Pretty sure both us and the Demons expelled a lot of energy last night.
Them to get a win and us to get the percentage required.
It will be a cracking game next week no matter where it is.
 
Last edited:
Section 5 said:
Birchall missed one game this year and that was a late out
He will play and has had a solid year
His experience in finals will be a benefit
Click to expand...

I don’t think he has had a solid year. In particular, I think his form has declined as the season went on and his last two weeks have been poor. I’m not a Birchall basher but I’m struggling to see how his last two weeks could be described in any other way.

In terms of his finals experience, it is true that he brings that to the table. But the majority of our list has now played multiple finals. We’ve finished top 4 three times in a row. Maybe we’re past the point of needing an on field coach who doesn’t hold his place on form?

If Fagan picks Birchall on trust and maybe on some intangibles that we don’t see (like calmness under pressure), then that’s ok and it’s his prerogative. I’ve never been of the view that one selection makes much difference to the outcome of a game so I hardly think we live or die on that one call.

But, in my opinion, he’s not in our best 22 anymore on form.
 
davemc_lions said:
be interesting if Birchall goes around again.
I say Prior most likely to take his spot eventually. Seems a very cool head on a young kid.
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He simply can’t. I feel Fages will keep playing him if he’s in our squad but it’s obvious to most he is not in our best 22.

It hasn’t happened for the past few years but we really really need to inject speed in our backline against Melbourne. They will cut us to shreds if we go in with a Gardiner/Lester/Rich/Birchall/Starc/ Andrews backline. Especially if Gawn gives silver service to Trac and Oliver.
 
trikster said:
Robo in for Kiddy
Andrews in for Gardner
And I wish we had someone to replace Fullarton but we don't without screwing our structure.
Click to expand...

Would be surprised if dizzy is omitted, his upside is too big.

He did struggle running out the game a bit last night, but he has the base strength and fitness. Just needs match fitness, which improves every week.
 
ForzaRoma said:
Fullarton simply can't play next week. We're at 3-4 goal disadvantage with him in the squad. I know he's decent with the ball and he tries hard, but Gawn will literally dominate him, and asking Oscar to do 100% of the ruck would be too much. I don't think Archie is a good player, but he's a much better ruckman than Fullarton and I would feel safer with him against Gawn than I would with Fullarton
Click to expand...
How long since Archie played a match?
 

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Regarding Birchall why do posters keep saying things like
"not in best 22" "clearly not in our best 22", "obviously not in best 22"
When clearly he has been selected in best 22 all year

His form in the past month has been solid as it has all year.
He make mistakes just like Andrews and other defenders

Maybe he will be omitted for next weeks final but that is up to the selectors

However regarding next year i believe the club will not extend his contract
That does not mean he is not up to playing well for the finals this year
 
Section 5 said:
Regarding Birchall why do posters keep saying things like
"not in best 22" "clearly not in our best 22", "obviously not in best 22"
When clearly he has been selected in best 22 all year

His form in the past month has been solid as it has all year.
He make mistakes just like Andrews and other defenders

Maybe he will be omitted for next weeks final but that is up to the selectors

However regarding next year i believe the club will not extend his contract
That does not mean he is not up to playing well for the finals this year
Click to expand...
The difference is that the other defenders +ves outweighs their -ves. Andrews makes a few mistakes but probably in the top 3 best defenders in the games. Adams take a whole heap of intercept marks, Gardiner makes a few mistakes but takes on the best/2nd best attacker and usually wins. Rich doesnt really make any errors. Birchall might do 1, maybe 2 really good kicks that slices up an opposition. But he also does 1, sometimes 2 absolutely awful kicks that goes straight to the opposition every game, as well as being sooo slow that he can't keep up with his opponent. I and others probably feel that his -ves outweighs his +ves.
 
Section 5 said:
Birchall missed one game this year and that was a late out
He will play and has had a solid year
His experience in finals will be a benefit

I would like to see Kiddy play assuming his injury suffered very late in the game was minor
Having finished 4th and get a second chance we could see how he goes in a final.
Robbo had a calf and with his age i hope it is not going to hang around because of his age
If Robbo is okay he comes in along with Andrews
Adams played well and should hold his spot
Fagan likes to keep changes to a minimum and reward a winning team
Going to be hard on selectors
Players at risk being: Prior, Lester, Ah Chee, Coleman & Gardiner (just does not look right YET).
Click to expand...
The game Birch was the late out, Lester also did not play and it was against the Cats and our backline looked pretty good. Dizzy was also obviously out.
Lester and Birch safe but I wonder what sort of message it is sending to Coleman if he is dropped this week after arguably being one of our better players last night.
 
Worth noting that Birch and Froggy usually take the 5th/6th ranked forwards, I'm hoping for a back 7 of>

Darcy Gardiner, Harris Andrews, Daniel Rich.
Brandon Starcevich, Marcus Adams, Keidean Coleman.

Ryan Lester > Grant Birchall??

Andrews/Adams/Gardiner > Brown/McDonald/Gawn/Jackson.
Starcevich/Lester > Fritsch.
Rich/Coleman > Spargo/Pickett/Neal-Bullen.

Starcevich becoming an elite hybrid defender IMO, can take anybody apart from the big gorilla forwards or resting ruckman.
 
We just lack some speed from our HB and backline.. Andrews not super fast as well.
Starc,Adams and Gardiner play more defensive so we loose some HB run

Lester, Brichall and Rich play on the three lowest ranked forwards normally.
Rich is really damaging by foot and good 1 on 1 happy to put body on the line.
Which leaves Lester vs Birchall.
Lester can play tall more defensive then Birchall. Birchall been there done it all and can be better by foot.
Both not bad not sure who we have 100% better.. Prior I like although still young
So too Kiddy and Madden.
 
On the quiet said:
I don't think Birchall nor probably Lester will be will be omitted for finals.

I think if Birchall and Lester are in the best 22 at the beginning of next year, Coleman, Prior, Madden and Payne should all ask for releases and look elsewhere because their lack of consistent opportunities is impacting on their development. I would almost put young Dev Robertson in the same position, with lack of consistent opportunities.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how serious you were being but that is a bit absurd. Coleman has played 15 games this year, Prior 16, Madden 9 (after being looked at as a bit more of a long-term prospect) and Payne missed a large chunk with injury (and has still played 9 games this year). We're a top 4 side - we shouldn't be gifting games to players for their development. That's what the VFL is for.

It's a credit to those players and how well they are developing that they've played that many games at a young age in a top 4 side.
 
Gadzorks said:
Would be surprised if dizzy is omitted, his upside is too big.

He did struggle running out the game a bit last night, but he has the base strength and fitness. Just needs match fitness, which improves every week.
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This is the main reason. it came down to dropping one of Adams/Lester/Gardner and for possibly the first time ever I decided to drop Gardner. Both Adams and Lester have been playing well.
 
Birchall has gone from being a reasonable player with some good games earlier in the year to being ordinary and a liability in recent matches.

End of story imo. And I was his biggest supporter in the face of calls to get rid of him as the season has worn on.

He looks a bit confused out there and has lost confidence in his ability to thread the needle with attacking penetrating kicks which is the reason we had him there.

My argument was always that he was better than whoever else we had but I don't think that applies any more.

My one hope is that he has a last reserve of ability and hunger in a final. Like he did last year against Richmond. It'd be a turnaround on recent performances.
 
Yeah after calming down about it all, I’m happy to give Lester another game. Let him know this is his chance - succeed you finish your career in the team at whatever level we finish this year, fail and that’s your retirement game.
 
PTizzle said:
I'm not sure how serious you were being but that is a bit absurd. Coleman has played 15 games this year, Prior 16, Madden 9 (after being looked at as a bit more of a long-term prospect) and Payne missed a large chunk with injury (and has still played 9 games this year). We're a top 4 side - we shouldn't be gifting games to players for their development. That's what the VFL is for.

It's a credit to those players and how well they are developing that they've played that many games at a young age in a top 4 side.
Click to expand...
I will stick by my post if Lester and Birchall are in the best 22 beginning of next year then some of the young guys need to look elsewhere. Whilst they have got games this year, you could argue that mostly it has been because of injuries, especially for Payne and Madden, as Gardiner, Dizzy, Lester all been out injured at various stages this year. I doubt Payne and or Madden would have got too many games this year if Lester, Adams and Dizzy were all available every week. Not sure how many games Kiddy would have got if Cam was not out for the entire season.

No doubt the same issue with most top 5 or 6 teams, and that is why fringe players seek trades for opportunities. Coincidently exactly what Adams did to break a two year contract with the Dogs to seek an opportunity to come to Lions for 3 years (with a 4th year trigger).
 
Sproj said:
Yeah after calming down about it all, I’m happy to give Lester another game. Let him know this is his chance - succeed you finish your career in the team at whatever level we finish this year, fail and that’s your retirement game.
Click to expand...
Lester has another year on his contract...I think. Next year could be handy backup
 
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