Changes for Carlton

[Ricky]

Simple:

NO CHANGE!! (with the exception of McVeigh if suspended)..

Send NLM Houli Jetta and the like back to the VFL and make them earn their spot..

Now that we have "close" to a full list we need to make as minimal changes as possible..

you look at Geelong and St.Kilda they make minimal changes each week (apart from Geelong this week with 4) but the fact is that the less changes we make..the more our team will bond together and know where to run and know each other's strengths.

We make 3 4 5 changes again this week..can guarantee you we will lose..

if we are forced to make 1 change with McVeigh... fair enough but if he gets off then i say NO CHANGE!!

 

[ant555]

With Hocking playing the small man in defence, it really shows our weakness. I never thought I'd say this, I can't wait for Slattery to come back into the side. Hocking plays from behind constantly in the backline, he refuses to get in front of the contest when there's the opportunity. You can't have your defenders constantly playing from behind.

I thought from a defensive point of view Hocking was terrible, Bate killed him in 90% of contests.

So how did Hocking take the couple of marks he took if he refused to play in front ?

I will give you a tip here. Hocking played bate the way he was instructed to. At training during the week they where doing some contested defensive work with him and it was all about positioning for the punch and not about continually taking the front position. Bate took only two contested marks and had three uncontested. Hocking played him in exactly the was GOD was instructing him to at training during the week.
Bate did not kill him in 90% of the contests. All that did happen was Bate took full advantage of the few set shots he had by not missing.
The fact that Bate had three inside 50's shows you how high he was having to go to find the footy.
There was always going to be some trouble in the marking contest given Bate is 192cm compared to Hockings 187cm.
Hocking did well, Bate was no more of a danger than any other of Melbournes key forwards on the night.

Hocking may be the tagger down back and my answer to Slattery. Hocking was killed against Geelong (didn't seem to play back against Adelaide) and was very good down back last night so the jury is still out. There are more options for positions on the ground for Heath, and he gets more of the ball, so watch this space.

He was not actually killed against Geelong. He had one of the most damaging forwards in the league in Johnson in the first quarter and held him to 4 possessions. Yes Johnson did have an impact with a goal and some score assists but any quarter you can manage to actually keep Johnson to 4 possessions is a good one. He played on Djerrkura in the second quarter who only had on possession and then moved to the midfield later on.

Against the Crows he did spend one quarter on Chris Knights in defence and Knights had 2 possessions for 1 goal.

 

[SirJimi05]

No change.

 

[ant555]

14 disposals at 71%, 2 goals against chicken fodder. In our bottom few pretty consistently lately. He double grabs almost every ball now.

You need to look past the one great tackle on Watts and the cult figure status he has within the club.

Davey needs to lift his game.

The fact that he averages just under 5 tackles per game as a small forward suggest's that it was not just the one great run down tackle that was a highlight. Most forwards average 1 to 2 tackles per game.
It is also the pressure he puts on even if he is not sticking the tackle.

Sure he has some work to do on his ball handling but he is still having an impact.

 

[Kong]

The fact that he averages just under 5 tackles per game as a small forward suggest's that it was not just the one great run down tackle that was a highlight. Most forwards average 1 to 2 tackles per game.
It is also the pressure he puts on even if he is not sticking the tackle.

Sure he has some work to do on his ball handling but he is still having an impact.

Once again you reinforce my argument against the myopic kelvin_sheedy.

 

[ant555]

Only change I'd consider is maybe getting Leroy back in as he saves his best for the MCG.

What is his best ? He has had some memorable stuff ups on the MCG.
I can not see him coming in. He was only reasonable in the last Bendigo game at WH and with no game this week he does not have the form to back it up.

I think NLM will be a better option. Offers us more in a couple of spots.


And for all who are calling for Hurley to come back WTF ?
Has missed 4 weeks. He will need a run with Bendigo to regain his touch to start with and his last coule of games before copping the injury where hardling senior selction quality.
Do some of you F###ers actually put any though and research into your suggested changes

 

[The Donners]

What is his best ? He has had some memorable stuff ups on the MCG.
I can not see him coming in. He was only reasonable in the last Bendigo game at WH and with no game this week he does not have the form to back it up.

I think NLM will be a better option. Offers us more in a couple of spots.


And for all who are calling for Hurley to come back WTF ?
Has missed 4 weeks. He will need a run with Bendigo to regain his touch to start with and his last coule of games before copping the injury where hardling senior selction quality.
Do some of you F###ers actually put any though and research into your suggested changes

Ant, Hurley played round 1, if I'm not mistaken he also had an injury interrupted pre-season, tell me where his senior selection quality was.

It is for the exact reason Hurley played in round 1 that he should be a possibility to be brought back into the team, while Fletcher is in the senior team, it is beneficial for Hurley to play.

I agree re: NLM.

 

[The Donners]

So how did Hocking take the couple of marks he took if he refused to play in front ?

I will give you a tip here. Hocking played bate the way he was instructed to. At training during the week they where doing some contested defensive work with him and it was all about positioning for the punch and not about continually taking the front position. Bate took only two contested marks and had three uncontested. Hocking played him in exactly the was GOD was instructing him to at training during the week.
Bate did not kill him in 90% of the contests. All that did happen was Bate took full advantage of the few set shots he had by not missing.
The fact that Bate had three inside 50's shows you how high he was having to go to find the footy.
There was always going to be some trouble in the marking contest given Bate is 192cm compared to Hockings 187cm.
Hocking did well, Bate was no more of a danger than any other of Melbournes key forwards on the night.

I shouldn't have criticised the player you have a man crush on!

I beg to differ re: Bate and being no more of a danger than any other of Melbourne's key forwards. From limited opportunities Bate to me always looked to present and was a real danger.

 

[ant555]

Ant, Hurley played round 1, if I'm not mistaken he also had an injury interrupted pre-season, tell me where his senior selection quality was.

It is for the exact reason Hurley played in round 1 that he should be a possibility to be brought back into the team, while Fletcher is in the senior team, it is beneficial for Hurley to play.

I agree re: NLM.

Hurley played well against North in the practice match against North which was the last game anyone had to show something before round 1.
Also at that stage Hooker had been slightly less than inspirantional and was not in the form that he was leading into being selected for the Brisbane game. That ment Hurley was considered the better option.

It is benificial for Hurley to reagain some tocuh as his lact couple of Bendigo games where not great anyway. He got carved up in defence against Coburg in the last game he played and had to be moved forward.

His time will come.

 

[ant555]

I shouldn't have criticised the player you have a man crush on!

I beg to differ re: Bate and being no more of a danger than any other of Melbourne's key forwards. From limited opportunities Bate to me always looked to present and was a real danger.

So becasue Bate had three set shots for the night he was a danger
Brad Miller had more scoring opertunities than Bate.
The fact that Bate had 7 marks for the night and 3 where outside 50 would suggest that he was not a real Danger at all.

Not my problem you want to make comments about his defensive work when you don't know all the facts on how he was expected to play him.

 

[The Donners]

So becasue Bate had three set shots for the night he was a danger
Brad Miller had more scoring opertunities than Bate.
The fact that Bate had 7 marks for the night and 3 where outside 50 would suggest that he was not a real Danger at all.

Not my problem you want to make comments about his defensive work when you don't know all the facts on how he was expected to play him.

Correct me if I'm wrong but at least 2 of Miller's 3 scoring opportunities were from frees against Pears?

The Dees took 13 marks inside 50 and Bate took the most of any Dee with 3... incidentally that was the most number of marks inside 50 for the game!

 

[The Donners]

Hurley played well against North in the practice match against North which was the last game anyone had to show something before round 1.
Also at that stage Hooker had been slightly less than inspirantional and was not in the form that he was leading into being selected for the Brisbane game. That meant Hurley was considered the better option.

It is benificial for Hurley to reagain some tocuh as his lact couple of Bendigo games where not great anyway. He got carved up in defence against Coburg in the last game he played and had to be moved forward.

His time will come.

They're fair comments. Only problem for me is I have as much faith in Bendigo as it seems Knights does.

 

[GoDons]

So becasue Bate had three set shots for the night he was a danger
Brad Miller had more scoring opertunities than Bate.
The fact that Bate had 7 marks for the night and 3 where outside 50 would suggest that he was not a real Danger at all.

Not my problem you want to make comments about his defensive work when you don't know all the facts on how he was expected to play him.

To be honest, I thought Bate looked their most dangerous forward.

Miller may have had more scoring opportunities, but Bate's opportunities stemmed from good play in which he genuinely beat his opponent. Miller had a gift free kick and was lucky enough to be on the end of a set play that was well executed by Robertson.

In a side that lost by 48 points, 4 marks inside 50 isn't too bad at all; I'd say it's good considering Bate isn't one of the main marking targets down there.

For mine, regardless of how he was 'told to play', Hocking was beaten.

As a defender, I don't think he cuts it. I like him through the midfield, but I wouldn't prefer to Prismall or Welsh and I think there's only room for two of the three.

If Slatts or possibly Houli come back this week, I think he might be a very stiff omission. He hasn't pushed his case as hard the last, probably, 4 games and as one of the less talented blokes in the side, he's probably needed to.

 

[Burzum]

Bate had below his season average in posessions and equaled in scoring shots and marks. It's not like he tore Hocking a new one.

Fake edit: I am aware that stats do not tell that whole story.

 

[GoDons]

Bate had below his season average in posessions and equaled in scoring shots and marks. It's not like he tore Hocking a new one.

I'll agree with that.

In saying Hocking was beaten, I probably mean it in more of a relative sense. For a side that had about 25% less Inside 50s and 100 less possessions, to have a big impact as a forward is difficult, and I felt for the opportunity Bate was afforded, he generally took it. That opportunity was, of course, minimal.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

You had a good feeling about the game before round 3 when we didn't have McVeigh, McPhee, Prismall, Reimers and Welsh!

Judd with a broken nose, no Waite and an indifferent Fevola... good luck!

Blues have no chance!

Maybe the Velvet Sledgehammer can give him a jolt again, lol.

Not sure wat injuries we got last night if any, and depending on McVeighs report. I'd go with NO CHANGE.

 

[Skeeta Olly]

Prismall got a knock to the ribs.

McPhee did something first Q.

 

[yaco55]

Ant, Hurley played round 1, if I'm not mistaken he also had an injury interrupted pre-season, tell me where his senior selection quality was.

It is for the exact reason Hurley played in round 1 that he should be a possibility to be brought back into the team, while Fletcher is in the senior team, it is beneficial for Hurley to play.

I agree re: NLM.

Hurley missed a month of training with gall bladder surgery in Jan/Feb weeks but otherwise played 2 practice games.

He missed 5 weeks with a Quad and then played 3 games in the VFL before breaking his wrist.

So in total he has played 3 games in the last 11 or 12 weeks.

I suggest that he will have 2 weeks with Bendigo before returning to the AFL.

Hocking played a very controlled game against Bate. It was probably his best game for 4 or 5 weeks. He does seem to best suited to defence.

Assuming that there are no injuries or suspensions - I expect that Salttery will return if fit - The player to make way Dyson.

 

[yaco55]

Hurley played well against North in the practice match against North which was the last game anyone had to show something before round 1.
Also at that stage Hooker had been slightly less than inspirantional and was not in the form that he was leading into being selected for the Brisbane game. That ment Hurley was considered the better option.

It is benificial for Hurley to reagain some tocuh as his lact couple of Bendigo games where not great anyway. He got carved up in defence against Coburg in the last game he played and had to be moved forward.

His time will come.

You will probably find that Hurley will play 2 games for bendigo and then AFL.

The club rate him highly and want to pump as many games as possible into him in 2009.

Its funny how if you have one ordinary game ( Pears on Friday ) he should be rested.

Pears has clearly been the ' shining light of all the yound players this year.

 

[Rack Watts]

I think we should try Jetta as a small defender. We know he can tackle and provide pressure.

 

[Godzke]

This is indeed a super hard week to pick for selections.

Hurley should be available, but there's an argument saying we shouldn't play him because it's his first AFL game back. Our next 4 matches are carl, coll, syd (a) and the wbd. So if he doesn't come in now he doesn't come in for a month! (assuming he's part of our best 22)

NLM should return without doubt. Him and Fletcher are the two best players we have in the defensive 50 for spoiling contests, and can be invaluable for blocking space against fevola.

mcveigh will unfortunately probably go for a week (after an early plea and no carry over points). So that's one change.

prizza's ribs?? hopefully he's alright.

talk in this thread about dropping hooker and hocking. hooker is our only option for resting ryder in the ruck and hocking is our best defender for small forwards. both should stay.

dyson and lonergan looked good on the weekend, but if we want to make any changes (not that we have to -- except that NLM should be in) then one or both of these guys i reckon will be the chopping block. harsh, but we've got enough midfielders running through which makes dyson the last choice over players like watson, stanton, prismall, winderlich, lovett, welsh, mcveigh and possibly skipworth (but his experience makes him a better choice for me). and lonergan's role is played by reimers and monfries as small forwards leading up as targets.

my 2c

 

[George Washington]

No way will Dyson be dropped, and Lonergan was in Essendon's best on the weekend. You gotta earn your spots now.

No Change.

Unless McVeigh gets susp, in which case In: NLM.

 

[tubbis]

Here are some of the issues I see.

1.
Mark McVeigh. Two sided-coin here. Hes a proven performer on the MCG on the big stage. His skills are sublime and adds midfield depth. However, if he gets suspended, Nathan Lovett-Murray comes back in and adds depth in the backline to try and negate Fevola/Fisher/whoever he ends up playing on.

2.
Forward line: We tried playing Lucas, Lloyd and Neagle but the general consensus around the place is that it won't work.
Lucas has strung together two decent weeks in a row (Adelaide: 4 goals, Melbourne: 3 goals).
Yes I know 3 against Melbourne isn't much of a big deal, but he provides a lot of structure to our forward line because he'll always take away a good defender. He's too dangerous to ignore and I'm sure even the most blind haters of Essendon could acknowledge that.
Lloyd gets a selection regardless because hes always a smokey and always brings his best against our old rivals.

3.
Our midfield depth:
In terms of our midfield, I'm referring to the massive clog/jostle for positions now that players are coming back into the side. Given their performances on the weekend, it'd be relatively safe to say Prismall and Welsh keep their spots. The other certainties would be Lovett, Winderlich, Watson, Dyson.
Does Lonergan make way for say Jetta?
Does Houli come in, and at whose expense?
With Welsh back in and able to play an attacking tagger role, what role will Hocking play?

So many questions. I'd hate to be on the Match Committee.

 

[lemon chicken]

NLM hasnt played for a month, highly unlikely. I can see McVeigh getting rubbed out for that so Houli or Slattery to come in. Nobody deserved to be dropped. 2 big games coming up we need to keep the changes to a minimum.

 

[efcboy]

i don't think its a hard week at the selection table at all - unless forced then it is highly unlikely there will be any changes. if mcveigh does get suspended (looks more a reprimand to me) then if houli is fit then he looks the logical replacement. if mcphee's calf is an issue then lovett-murray is the logical replacement given he can play similar role down back or up forward. the only reason for a change structurally wise would be for matchups - obviously the one they will look at the closest is fevola - last time daniher played the entire game on him. perhaps he will be considered again.

as for some of the suggestions:

jetta - reimers quicker, more skilful and adds more pressure so has taken his spot.

zaharakis - some chance but lonergan and skipworth both performed reasonably well so will hold him out.

h.slattery - see no reason to bring him in. he should be made to earn his spot back.

hurley - surely he'll need a game or two in the vfl for fitness.

if no forced change, the only change i'd consider is bringing in daniher if they think pace is an issue for pears to matchup on fevola. to bring in daniher there would have to be an unlucky player and it could be skipworth or hocking. can't see anyone else being dropped.