Preview Changes/Preview – Round 8 vs. Geelong

[Proper Gander]

The spirit is a physical being wearing the veil and we're all taking turns slow dancing with it like a 1950s ball.

Get in my head

1. Thanks
2. No thanks

3. I reckon Oliver is due a blinder

 

[Topkent]

1. Thanks
2. No thanks

3. I reckon Oliver is due a blinder

If by blinder you mean getting on the sauce after the game and kicking some wall holes I agree

 

[Proper Gander]

If by blinder you mean getting on the sauce after the game and kicking some wall holes I agree

I’m joking a bit, he’s got a way to go yet, but I’m genuinely on him to get back to his best and stay there. Don’t want to put a date on when, but I think he will.

You did say something interesting in one of your crazed Oliver hate posts though which was if he was pushed out, it might force coaches to get a bit more creative with the midfield mix. Of course, they could try some things anyway but they don’t. It would be interesting to see.

I want Oliver in though, and playing well, and actively instructed to handball to another player from the centre stoppage and not kick the thing himself

 

[schmuttt]

Hawkins was smashed by Weitering, and May is better.
He looks very sore and slow.
Petracca, Viney, Oliver do trouble us.
Gawn...say no more.

Please stop with these reverse jinx attempt thanks.

Maybe I'm getting confused I thought last year's game was the game we were infront most of the game but were extremely lucky to be infront cause they smashed us all game and danster blamed on Pickett for missing a shot on the boundary

Nah that was 2022, we were within a kick in the last then they ran away with it. Last year we led at 3/4 time then did the classic let them kick 6 goals in the last on a night Hawkins/Cameron combined for 1 solitary goal (To be fair Cameron went off injured in the first half).

 

[Topkent]

I’m joking a bit, he’s got a way to go yet, but I’m genuinely on him to get back to his best and stay there. Don’t want to put a date on when, but I think he will.

You did say something interesting in one of your crazed Oliver hate posts though which was if he was pushed out, it might force coaches to get a bit more creative with the midfield mix. Of course, they could try some things anyway but they don’t. It would be interesting to see.

I want Oliver in though, and playing well, and actively instructed to handball to another player from the centre stoppage and not kick the thing himself

It's mostly because he has no versatility, he can't play anywhere except under the rucks toes which means our game is heavily influenced by his stoppage work both good and bad.

I really did think our midfield looked more dynamic when he wasn't in it last year.

I think he's extremely low on confidence and he's playing for himself right now, trying to get his disposal count high and do it himself. He's not trusting himself or his teammates to hold it the extra second and find help.

As stupid as it sounds he needs to strip it back and play like Brownlow winning Tom Mitchell for a bit, get the ball and handball it to someone else

 

[schmuttt]

It's mostly because he has no versatility, he can't play anywhere except under the rucks toes which means our game is heavily influenced by his stoppage work both good and bad.

I really did think our midfield looked more dynamic when he wasn't in it last year.

I think he's extremely low on confidence and he's playing for himself right now, trying to get his disposal count high and do it himself. He's not trusting himself or his teammates to hold it the extra second and find help.

As stupid as it sounds he needs to strip it back and play like Brownlow winning Tom Mitchell for a bit, get the ball and handball it to someone else

We've got more outside players around him than probably ever before, there is no reason why he shouldn't be trying to feed them. I used to want him to kick it more but he has shown that just isn't going to work, better off doing what Cripps has done and go back to being a distributor.

 

[Bluelegs]

I’m joking a bit, he’s got a way to go yet, but I’m genuinely on him to get back to his best and stay there. Don’t want to put a date on when, but I think he will.

You did say something interesting in one of your crazed Oliver hate posts though which was if he was pushed out, it might force coaches to get a bit more creative with the midfield mix. Of course, they could try some things anyway but they don’t. It would be interesting to see.

I want Oliver in though, and playing well, and actively instructed to handball to another player from the centre stoppage and not kick the thing himself

If Oliver left I reckon Goodwin would just put sparrow in the middle.

 

[schmuttt]

If Oliver left I reckon Goodwin would just put sparrow in the middle.

At least we'd maybe play an actual half forward instead of Sparrow then

 

[Topkent]

We've got more outside players around him than probably ever before, there is no reason why he shouldn't be trying to feed them. I used to want him to kick it more but he has shown that just isn't going to work, better off doing what Cripps has done and go back to being a distributor.

His confidence is at an all time low in the AFL I'd say. Playing selfishly

 

[Topkent]

We've got more outside players around him than probably ever before, there is no reason why he shouldn't be trying to feed them. I used to want him to kick it more but he has shown that just isn't going to work, better off doing what Cripps has done and go back to being a distributor.

Do we have more? Feel like it's the same amount really just different types. Still play Viney and Sparrow. We've replaced Hunter with Windsor

 

[Bluelegs]

At least we'd maybe play an actual half forward instead of Sparrow then

If we traded like the Giants we would have let Sparrow go a year ago just to fix our balance up.

 

[Proper Gander]

It's mostly because he has no versatility, he can't play anywhere except under the rucks toes which means our game is heavily influenced by his stoppage work both good and bad.

I really did think our midfield looked more dynamic when he wasn't in it last year.

I think he's extremely low on confidence and he's playing for himself right now, trying to get his disposal count high and do it himself. He's not trusting himself or his teammates to hold it the extra second and find help.

As stupid as it sounds he needs to strip it back and play like Brownlow winning Tom Mitchell for a bit, get the ball and handball it to someone else

Exactly what I would like to see.

In his early years he played a hilariously good game hand balling only. Then you get all sorts saying he needs to become a complete player and kick and go forward etc.

Why? Priddis got a Brownlow almost entirely for fishing and dishing in the stoppage. I’d love to see Oliver get back on what he does best. He has a v good connection with Trac and looks for him to handball, and Trac is much the better player going to forward fifty. If they can get that back, we don’t need to worry so much about the midfield mix. The problem at the moment is they’re not connecting, and it makes everyone look silly

 

[Proper Gander]

If Oliver left I reckon Goodwin would just put sparrow in the middle.

Probably would and might just be my breaking point

 

[Topkent]

Exactly what I would like to see.

In his early years he played a hilariously good game hand balling only. Then you get all sorts saying he needs to become a complete player and kick and go forward etc.

Why? Priddis got a Brownlow almost entirely for fishing and dishing in the stoppage. I’d love to see Oliver get back on what he does best. He has a v good connection with Trac and looks for him to handball, and Trac is much the better player going to forward fifty. If they can get that back, we don’t need to worry so much about the midfield mix. The problem at the moment is they’re not connecting, and it makes everyone look silly

I was definitely one of those who wanted him to kick more. Not just literally kick more though get on the outside and run with the ball or break forward out of stoppages.
My main issue with that was you can't call him one of the best mids in the comp if all he can do is handball to other people.

 

[Proper Gander]

I was definitely one of those who wanted him to kick more. Not just literally kick more though get on the outside and run with the ball or break forward out of stoppages.
My main issue with that was you can't call him one of the best mids in the comp if all he can do is handball to other people.

I did too. I’ve seen it now and want to tell him to focus on what he does best.

I get what you are saying but it doesn’t matter what anyone calls him, Oliver can only be his best if he takes the cape off, stops looking at his stats and goes back to what he does best as a team player.

Beginning of 2021 when Max Gawn was everywhere telling everyone about our breakthrough offseason where they did some bonding thing down at Sorrento or somewhere. He always talks about this thing where they discussed the tendency of individuals to get too into personal stats - try to win against peers - rather than playing as a team. I’ve always thought that might be Oliver, and might even be Oliver and Petracca. They are highly competitive people.

If they can get back to 2021 and work together it will make a difference. Hopefully today or at least before we play Geelong

 

[Bluelegs]

I was definitely one of those who wanted him to kick more. Not just literally kick more though get on the outside and run with the ball or break forward out of stoppages.
My main issue with that was you can't call him one of the best mids in the comp if all he can do is handball to other people.

Not sure I agree with the last point. 2017-18 Oliver destroyed teams that way. It was really how he moved through traffic and was able to win the ball and find someone on the outside in one motion that made him special. I think trying to make him something he's not has made him lose a bit of that magic.

 

[Topkent]

Not sure I agree with the last point. 2017-18 Oliver destroyed teams that way. It was really how he moved through traffic and was able to win the ball and find someone on the outside in one motion that made him special. I think trying to make him something he's not has made him lose a bit of that magic.

Yeah but he can't be considered an elite midfielder then. He's an elite stoppage player same as Fritsch is an elite goal kicker but you need more than that to be the best in the comp.
Oliver has 12 goals in his last 2 years and 7 games and he's below average on the outside.

He may drop off but Harley Reid has 5 goals in 6 games. He's on track to nearly double Oliver's best ever goal kicking season as a teenager.

You can't be in the 5 best mids in the comp when there's so many players who win the ball but actually damage with it aswell.

 

[Proper Gander]

Not sure I agree with the last point. 2017-18 Oliver destroyed teams that way. It was really how he moved through traffic and was able to win the ball and find someone on the outside in one motion that made him special. I think trying to make him something he's not has made him lose a bit of that magic.

Agree totally.

After headless did that poll to vote on the period demon fans liked the best, and most came in with 2015-18 I’ve been rewatching a lot of those games. Oliver is magical at his own thing. Trying to tell him to be Chris Judd, or Fyfe, or whoever is unhelpful.

Who even cares if he doesn’t have enough of an all round game to be called the best mid in the comp? It’s media who create that crap. Oliver hasn’t weighed into the debate. He’s plenty good enough at what he does well, and has some awards to go with it.

 

[Proper Gander]

Yeah but he can't be considered an elite midfielder then. He's an elite stoppage player same as Fritsch is an elite goal kicker but you need more than that to be the best in the comp.
Oliver has 12 goals in his last 2 years and 7 games and he's below average on the outside.

He may drop off but Harley Reid has 5 goals in 6 games. He's on track to nearly double Oliver's best ever goal kicking season as a teenager.

You can't be in the 5 best mids in the comp when there's so many players who win the ball but actually damage with it aswell.

Again, what has this got to do with his being the best mid in the comp?

 

[Topkent]

Agree totally.

After headless did that poll to vote on the period demon fans liked the best, and most came in with 2015-18 I’ve been rewatching a lot of those games. Oliver is magical at his own thing. Trying to tell him to be Chris Judd, or Fyfe, or whoever is unhelpful.

Who even cares if he doesn’t have enough of an all round game to be called the best mid in the comp? It’s media who create that crap. Oliver hasn’t weighed into the debate. He’s plenty good enough at what he does well, and has some awards to go with it.

Imagine if he did weigh in though

' yeah nah I'm ok, teams you know inside the four walls and I'm just doing you know um footy and that yeah'

 

[Proper Gander]

Imagine if he did weigh in though

' yeah nah I'm ok, teams you know inside the four walls and I'm just doing you know um footy and that yeah'

You are a silly person Kent. A silly person

 

[Topkent]

Again, what has this got to do with his being the best mid in the comp?

Don't be snowflakey.
There's a few here who say he's the best in the comp and best Melbourne mid ever. I don't think he is and that's my reasons why. I'm totally fine with him going back to what he was early in his career he was effective doing that.

 

[schmuttt]

My main issue with that was you can't call him one of the best mids in the comp if all he can do is handball to other people.

Not sure how this is relevant though? The only angle you could be going for here is implying his contract is a bad one, but just say that if that’s the case.

 

[Proper Gander]

Don't be snowflakey.
There's a few here who say he's the best in the comp and best Melbourne mid ever. I don't think he is and that's my reasons why. I'm totally fine with him going back to what he was early in his career he was effective doing that.

I don’t think so either for much the same reasons as you. The difference is I don’t care much - it’s like Goody’s “external noise”. If he can get his head together and recapture what he does best, he is undeniably a big factor in our wins. Ignore the Bigfooty / media debate about whether he is Melbournes best ever.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah but he can't be considered an elite midfielder then. He's an elite stoppage player same as Fritsch is an elite goal kicker but you need more than that to be the best in the comp.
Oliver has 12 goals in his last 2 years and 7 games and he's below average on the outside.

He may drop off but Harley Reid has 5 goals in 6 games. He's on track to nearly double Oliver's best ever goal kicking season as a teenager.

You can't be in the 5 best mids in the comp when there's so many players who win the ball but actually damage with it aswell.

I think that's a pretty arbitrary distinction. Like saying Buddy can't be considered an elite full forward cause he couldn't mark over his head.

Oliver did plenty of damage when he was only using it by hand. That ability to create a play by beating several opponents was worth more than a few extra goals a different mid might have kicked.

I think most teams would take Oliver at his best over 90% of the mids in the comp at their best. My fear is that we won't see him reach that level again.