Preview Changes/Preview vs Gold Coast

[Mantis Toboggan]

No mate you may have but I’ve seen nothing from him to excite me.

Much rather see Smith, Lynch, West or Dale get a crack before Williams.

Honestly just don’t see it in him and I think the players mentioned were jumped to kickstart them to a level they should be at. Dunks and Wally are both far better players than Williams of all playing at their best

The end of last year it was fantastic. Don’t you think?

I know some people can be accused of overrating him...but I think at the very least you might agree he’s a talented young player who’s shown enough to persist with.

 

[Mattdougie]

The end of last year it was fantastic. Don’t you think?

I know some people can be accused of overrating him...but I think at the very least you might agree he’s a talented young player who’s shown enough to persist with.

No sorry mate as I’ve said I’ve seen zero from him myself.

Didn’t really notice him last year but my level of interest has dropped towards the end.

I did constantly hear he was a very good ball user which if I’m honest I did not see in the JLT or round 1 when he butchered the footy.

Didn’t realise he was so young so happy to persist in the twos but I’m yet to see much that tells me he is as good as some say on here

 

[Antares]

Yawn

You said that 4 times now try another one

Why? You don't like being reminded? You don't like having your "credibility" completely vaporized in an instant?

 

[Mattdougie]

Why? You don't like being reminded? You don't like having your "credibility" completely vaporized in an instant?

Hahahahaha you mistake me for someone that gives a single f$ck what u think.

I made a call and it looks like I was wrong what will I do?

My “credibility” on a forum where I know no one is shot I guess it’s time to give up

March on little one I truly don’t care and in the small time you have been here you have made as big a d!ck of yourself as I have so well done.

Keep plugging away but now I shall place you on ignore so my fragile ego and credibility doesn’t take another knock to people I’ve never met and never will.

The epitome of a keyboard warrior you wouldn’t say a word on the real world and those that do know me know this is who I am.

Enjoy your evening while I go and see if I can find the shattered remains of my psyche

 

[Mattdougie]

How’s Jongy going, anyone heard?

Apparently a month away from VFL

 

[Chadley]

So you wanna read one sentence of my post before deciding it's time to reply?

What? This is outright false. Trengove finished last season playing ruck and he was far more competitive in the ruck contests than English has ever been. Trengove is also a far better mark than English right now, even knowing it isn't one of Trengove's strengths.

Core body strength matters, and English doesn't have it right now. That's why Sydney were happy to let a 33 year old, 192cm defender like Heath Grundy ruck against him late in the game, and they still dominated the 4th quarter stoppages.

2018

English - 7 games 6 contested marks.
Trengrove - 16 games 7 contested marks.

 

[Antares]

Hahahahaha you mistake me for someone that gives a single f$ck what u think.

Well, you clearly do.

Keep plugging away but now I shall place you on ignore

No you won't. You said this last time and you didn't.

 

[Antares]

2018

English - 7 games 6 contested marks.
Trengrove - 16 games 7 contested marks.

Skipping the hitouts now?

That was just one season for Trengove where he was moved across different positions. His past seasons demonstrate better numbers, and putting aside contested marks, he's very good at taking uncontested intercept marks, which is an underrated quality.

English couldn't hold marks in 1v1 contests against Jarrad McVeigh and Jake Lloyd, who are both like 20cm shorter than him. His marking is currently a weakness.

 

[Mattdougie]

Both weeks we have lost the hit outs but dominated clearances and stoppages and some people still want change. I giess pushing an agenda all off season makes some unable to admit they are wrong.

I was against English going one out but we are winning so why change and especially to Trengove who was very average in his JLT hit outs.

And just coz some people LOVE stats Trengove career average contested marks are 0.7 a game. Lol losing so much not playing him

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Ok

No mate you may have but I’ve seen nothing from him to excite me.

Much rather see Smith, Lynch, West or Dale get a crack before Williams.

Honestly just don’t see it in him and I think the players mentioned were jumped to kickstart them to a level they should be at. Dunks and Wally are both far better players than Williams of all playing at their best

Ok let's wait and see what happens. This discussion will go on no doubt.

Ps Your bottom 2 prediction is not looking good at this stage.

 

[Antares]

I was against English going one out but we are winning so why change and especially to Trengove who was very average in his JLT hit outs.

There you go again reading into JLT form. You're not doing your "credibility" any favors by constantly referring to the pre-season, especially after claiming we'll finish bottom 2.

 

[Mattdougie]

Ok


Ok let's wait and see what happens. This discussion will go on no doubt.

Ps Your bottom 2 prediction is not looking good at this stage.

Very true but I’m happy to be wrong

I actually predicted bottom 6 and we were playing like a bottom 2 team which if we are honest was true in the JLT.

I also backed in Lloyd, Duryea, English, and a few others but no one will bring that up

 

[Mattdougie]

Jackson Trengove career stats

Hit Outs - 4.9
Contested marks - 0.7

Tim English career stats

Hit outs - 12.9
Contested Marks - 0.6

I think most people would keep the 19 year old over the 28 year old

 

[Chadley]

Skipping the hitouts now?

That was just one season for Trengove where he was moved across different positions. His past seasons demonstrate better numbers, and putting aside contested marks, he's very good at taking uncontested intercept marks, which is an underrated quality.

English couldn't hold marks in 1v1 contests against Jarrad McVeigh and Jake Lloyd, who are both like 20cm shorter than him. His marking is currently a weakness.

Moving different positions still doesn't mean he should have only 1 more contested mark in 9 more games and claim he is a "far better mark". It's just not true. As others have stated he averages under 0.7 contested marks a game in his career.

Also happy to not skip the Hitouts.

English lost all his hitouts when he rucked.
Trengrove won only once in hitouts when he rucked and that was when Ryder sat out for most of the 2nd half and was up rucking Westhoff .

2018 Trengrove only averaged 5 more hitouts a game (in his last 5 games when he was #1 ruck) then English (in some games he started forward). I think its fair that we can expect improvement on those numbers from a 21 year old which is why Bev & 99% of the posters on this board think English is the better option.

 

[dogwatch]

Jackson Trengove career stats

Hit Outs - 4.9
Contested marks - 0.7

Tim English career stats

Hit outs - 12.9
Contested Marks - 0.6

I think most people would keep the 19 year old over the 28 year old

(cough, cough) ...
English turns 22 in four months time.

Sorry to be quoting stats

 

[dogwatch]

Dear admin ...

 

[BRWB]

Happy for no change.

If it ain't broke...

5 day break is a worry. Would like to see the likes of Dickson, English and Smith managed for that game. Bring JJ in for the Pies.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Just please Doggies, don't turn up thinking its lowly Gold Coast. That will get you beat.

Go for the kill.

 

[dogwatch]

Injuries aside (you can't predict them) who is most likely to need a break in either the GCS or Collingwood match given that they are only 5 days apart?

Conventional wisdom is that it's the young kids, that would be Smith, Richards and Naughton as our under 20s. However I can't see us resting Naughton, especially as he's not doing as much running or crash and bash as the midfielders and rucks.

It's also been suggested English might not be able to ruck 80+% of both games so close together. Makes sense but it could be addressed by getting in Trengove as the first ruck for one of those games, not necessarily by omitting English.

Anybody else? Perhaps someone carrying an injury who needs a minimum of 6 days break to recover? Not sure if we have anyone in that category right now.

If MC followed this line of thinking we might leave one of Smith or Richards out this week and then swap them around the following week. The player to come in could be someone like Williams or Lipinski. More likely Lipinski who I think has more match fitness and current form than Williams.

EDIT: Of course if JJ's match fit he'd be ahead of both Williams and Lipinski.

 

[TiAn_]

Williams in for Young.

Cordy plays on Wright.

Wood, Crozier, Duryea & Williams can all alternate on all of their other forwards.

 

[stefoid]

Would prefer to play Young and English if we can still win with them in the team, in the hopes of fast tracking them.

Love to see Williams back in too, but for who?

 

[Antares]

Moving different positions still doesn't mean he should have only 1 more contested mark in 9 more games and claim he is a "far better mark". It's just not true. As others have stated he averages under 0.7 contested marks a game in his career.

Then it's a good thing 2018 isn't Trengove's only season, and that contested marks aren't the only marks that matter.
Contested marking isn't one of Trengove's strengths, but if his opponent is Jarrad McVeigh, it would be bread and butter for him.

Also happy to not skip the Hitouts.

English lost all his hitouts when he rucked.
Trengrove won only once in hitouts when he rucked and that was when Ryder sat out for most of the 2nd half and was up rucking Westhoff .

Trengove also won the hitouts against St.Kilda. I suggest you check the opposition hitouts for that game.

2018 Trengrove only averaged 5 more hitouts a game (in his last 5 games when he was #1 ruck) then English (in some games he started forward). I think its fair that we can expect improvement on those numbers from a 21 year old which is why Bev & 99% of the posters on this board think English is the better option.

You realize averages are a bit different from totals over a single game? Averaging 5 more is a pretty decent gap, and one of those games (St.Kilda) was a game with very little stoppages, evidenced by low hitout numbers across both teams. Also don't pretend English "starting forward" makes a difference, he had ample opportunity in the ruck for every game he played last year.

Also, it's wrong of me to highlight only hitouts, because ruck contests have more to it. The strength battle comes to mind, as does the ability to negate your opponent. Sydney were happy to let a 192cm Heath Grundy ruck against English in the last quarter because he had a big strength advantage, he prevented English from having much influence and Sydney began to dominate us in the middle.

I'll say it again for the record; I'm not necessarily in favor of dropping English, I just don't think he should be the #1 ruck. It's becoming apparent that arguing is redundant, because as long as we're winning, we're doing no wrong as far as anyone's concerned. If we lost to the Gold Coast and Jarrod Witts has a big impact like 58 hitouts, 21 disposals (his numbers last year against us), there's a good chance I won't be the only one highlighting this.

 

[BRWB]

Injuries aside (you can't predict them) who is most likely to need a break in either the GCS or Collingwood match given that they are only 5 days apart?

Conventional wisdom is that it's the young kids, that would be Smith, Richards and Naughton as our under 20s. However I can't see us resting Naughton, especially as he's not doing as much running or crash and bash as the midfielders and rucks.

It's also been suggested English might not be able to ruck 80+% of both games so close together. Makes sense but it could be addressed by getting in Trengove as the first ruck for one of those games, not necessarily by omitting English.

Anybody else? Perhaps someone carrying an injury who needs a minimum of 6 days break to recover? Not sure if we have anyone in that category right now.

If MC followed this line of thinking we might leave one of Smith or Richards out this week and then swap them around the following week. The player to come in could be someone like Williams or Lipinski. More likely Lipinski who I think has more match fitness and current form than Williams.

EDIT: Of course if JJ's match fit he'd be ahead of both Williams and Lipinski.

Other players to consider resting would be older or perpetually injured players such as Dickson or Wood.

 

[bresker]

Not for nothing, but ”/wood plays on player x” is redundant in our system - we play a zone defence where we defend space rather than specific players. We play super high to score on the rebound, hence why we get caught out the back. It looks bad but i presume the thinking is we will score more than the opposition by taking a risk.

I don’t see Wright as the big problem - Gold Coast have small-mid size speedsters who could expose us out the back. We’re not a team blessed with fleetness of foot

 

[Virgin Dog]

Not for nothing, but ”/wood plays on player x” is redundant in our system - we play a zone defence where we defend space rather than specific players. We play super high to score on the rebound, hence why we get caught out the back. It looks bad but i presume the thinking is we will score more than the opposition by taking a risk.

I don’t see Wright as the big problem - Gold Coast have small-mid size speedsters who could expose us out the back. We’re not a team blessed with fleetness of foot

Martin and Sexton are both in red hot form, so I imagine they're the biggest threat