Analysis Changes v Suns - Round 10@Mars

[dogwatch]

Definitely wasn’t his career best game last week so not sure that works, but yeah he was okay today, did a number of good things. Doesn’t change my opinion though he is what he is and he’s not at the standard, he’s put together the sort of game we should expect from him and props to him more than happy to have him as depth - but duck we’re going no where with him in the 22

This chart says otherwise.
Chill out and enjoy the win dftw. Allow the chin his 15 minutes of fame.

 

[BBBaz]

Let's see him hit the scoreboard when the game is there to be won rather than against 2nd rate opposition when the team is already 6 goals up. Odds on he couldn't do it, he would **it himself.

Who would have thought you would be shown to be wrong so quickly?

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Let's see him hit the scoreboard when the game is there to be won rather than against 2nd rate opposition when the team is already 6 goals up. Odds on he couldn't do it, he would **it himself.

LOL see if you can still edit this one

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Forget Jackson and Darcy, a more realistic move is to hope Sweet improves over Martin

Sweet ahead of Martin no problem but neither play whe English is back to 100 percent as he plays 80 % of his time in the ruck and both of them are not good enough around the ground to play elsewhere

 

[gordo2016]

LOL see if you can still edit this one

I don't want to edit it mate. He kicked a soda from 30m out, I would have kicked it. So what?

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

I don't want to edit it mate. He kicked a soda from 30m out, I would have kicked it. So what?

LOL

did you change over to Netflix before the end

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

LOL

did you change over to Netflix before the end

Hi. You’re becoming a lit-tle bit of a flog BL

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Sweet ahead of Martin no problem but neither play whe English is back to 100 percent as he plays 80 % of his time in the ruck and both of them are not good enough around the ground to play elsewhere

We did play Martin and English for 8-12 games last year together so if Sweet is an upgrade by seems like it would be worth trying.

I would think having Sweet in makes English better as he can get to more contests

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Garcia looks like Inspector Poirot

or Inspector Clouseau!?

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Interesting. I think Buku and JUH are fighting for the same position in the side at present. What Buku does is exciting but he needs to be more involved. Do not get me wrong I think he will be very good in time. If JUH as a very good game this week at VFL level and Buku has a quite game then I can see JUH in against the cats.


Changes this week in English, Weightman Out McComb and Cordy

 

[Foxman98]

Interesting. I think Buku and JUH are fighting for the same position in the side at present. What Buku does is exciting but he needs to be more involved. Do not get me wrong I think he will be very good in time. If JUH as a very good game this week at VFL level and Buku has a quite game then I can see JUH in against the cats.


Changes this week in English, Weightman Out McComb and Cordy

McComb kicked 2 and had 7 score involvements I know we all like to shit on the bloke but he isn't getting dropped this week after that kind of performance

 

[dogwatch]

McComb kicked 2 and had 7 score involvements I know we all like to shit on the bloke but he isn't getting dropped this week after that kind of performance

As far as I could tell Scott had a few very handy score involvements too including a GA. And McNeil was one of our best in the first half including a couple of goals and a couple of near misses before fading out a bit in the second half.

Aren't these blokes supposed to be the core of our hopeless bottom 4/bottom 6?
If they are, does that mean our bottom 4/6 aren't as bad as had been made out?

 

[Foxman98]

As far as I could tell Scott had a few very handy score involvements too including a GA. And McNeil was one of our best in the first half including a couple of goals and a couple of near misses before fading out a bit in the second half.

Aren't these blokes supposed to be the core of our hopeless bottom 4/bottom 6?
If they are, does that mean our bottom 4/6 aren't as bad as had been made out?

Correct Scott had 5 SI himself. People need someone to blame and usually go for the easy low lying fruits

 

[ScragCity]

Relax guys. Two wins in a row against decent opposition. We are going beautifully.

 

[True Dog]

We did play Martin and English for 8-12 games last year together so if Sweet is an upgrade by seems like it would be worth trying.

I would think having Sweet in makes English better as he can get to more contests

Difference this time is English wants to be the number one ruck meaning Sweet will need to spend extended up forward?

 

[hutchy31]

Difference this time is English wants to be the number one ruck meaning Sweet will need to spend extended up forward?

I keep seeing this on our board and in the media - to what degree can this actually be a thing? Is Bevo picking the side knowing Tim will throw a tantrum if there's another ruck and Tim is asked to play 70/30 forward/ruck? We've got players being played out of their desired position including the captain and best player who is likely sacrificing some of his game to play more forward than mid at times, but Tim gets to do what he wants?

Just to be clear - I'm absolutely not having a go at you, more the accepted position that we can't play another ruck with English unless Tim plays first ruck and the other player is predominantly forward. I get that English and his management might want some guarantees that he's viewed as a first ruck moving forward, which is completely fine particularly if he sees himself as developing further in that position, but surely it doesn't mean that he can't be played as a forward/ruck when the team needs it? It would also be slightly unusual given he hasn't exactly been in the top tier of rucks up to this season (although I do admit that his form before injury/illness this year was much improved), and he was great in that forward/ruck role in the first half of last year.

My guess is actually that Tim has shown a preference to be first ruck and communicated that to his management and the club, trying to seek some reassurances on that point - but that falls way short of an absolute position that when he plays it must be first ruck. It just wouldn't make sense for a player to be that forceful about their position imo.

However, we'll see what happens when he next plays and what team selection looks like I suppose.

 

[True Dog]

I keep seeing this on our board and in the media - to what degree can this actually be a thing? Is Bevo picking the side knowing Tim will throw a tantrum if there's another ruck and Tim is asked to play 70/30 forward/ruck? We've got players being played out of their desired position including the captain and best player who is likely sacrificing some of his game to play more forward than mid at times, but Tim gets to do what he wants?

Just to be clear - I'm absolutely not having a go at you, more the accepted position that we can't play another ruck with English unless Tim plays first ruck and the other player is predominantly forward. I get that English and his management might want some guarantees that he's viewed as a first ruck moving forward, which is completely fine particularly if he sees himself as developing further in that position, but surely it doesn't mean that he can't be played as a forward/ruck when the team needs it? It would also be slightly unusual given he hasn't exactly been in the top tier of rucks up to this season (although I do admit that his form before injury/illness this year was much improved), and he was great in that forward/ruck role in the first half of last year.

My guess is actually that Tim has shown a preference to be first ruck and communicated that to his management and the club, trying to seek some reassurances on that point - but that falls way short of an absolute position that when he plays it must be first ruck. It just wouldn't make sense for a player to be that forceful about their position imo.

However, we'll see what happens when he next plays and what team selection looks like I suppose.

Pretty sure it was reported that Tim wants to play ruck first and foremost and his management advised us accordingly and if I recall Bevo confirmed it earlier in the season. I 100% agree with you that he should be played where the side needs him most. Who knows if rumours are true that he’s agreed to a 2 year extension things might change. I still want to see him and Sweet play a few games together to see if they can make it work. I’m a Sweet fan and I know he has his short comings but for a guy who supposedly gets towelled up in the VFL every week (not in my opinion) he stood toe to toe with one of the league’s best and inform ruckman on the weekend and our midfield went to work. When Cordy rucked we were on the back foot. Anyway we’ll see soon enough.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

In my simple mind getting Tim to ruck 60% of the game + play as an extra around the ground = more minutes on the field and more damaging

Sweet to ruck 40%, 30% bench, 30% playing forward/back as a crash and bash decoy. No one will ever suspect it.

Doesn’t that seem like an exhausting combo for the opposition? They can’t go with Tim and breakeven/get worn down with Sweet?

 

[Foxman98]

In my simple mind getting Tim to ruck 60% of the game + play as an extra around the ground = more minutes on the field and more damaging

Sweet to ruck 40%, 30% bench, 30% playing forward/back as a crash and bash decoy. No one will ever suspect it.

Doesn’t that seem like an exhausting combo for the opposition? They can’t go with Tim and breakeven/get worn down with Sweet?

Only works if English isn't fully fit otherwise English plays 90% ruck and runs his opponent into the ground and need a forward to chop out for the 10% it'll work perfectly when Bruce is back Sweet isn't the answer

 

[hutchy31]

In my simple mind getting Tim to ruck 60% of the game + play as an extra around the ground = more minutes on the field and more damaging

Sweet to ruck 40%, 30% bench, 30% playing forward/back as a crash and bash decoy. No one will ever suspect it.

Doesn’t that seem like an exhausting combo for the opposition? They can’t go with Tim and breakeven/get worn down with Sweet?

The fixture has worked out perfectly here - why not try this against WC if Tim is ready to go? Cordy might be valuable for the 1 percenters against good teams (imo jury still out on that but I won't argue the point here), but drop him for English and even if Sweet is disastrous we should still win, and if we didn't then we were never playing in September anyway. Geelong don't exactly have the best ruck division either, although we obviously do have to pick the best 22 available for that must-win game so if Sweet was dropped for that in favour of Cordy/KPF/whoever then fair enough.

Only works if English isn't fully fit otherwise English plays 90% ruck and runs his opponent into the ground and need a forward to chop out for the 10% it'll work perfectly when Bruce is back Sweet isn't the answer

Maybe, and that is obviously the preference of the MC. I'm just not a believer that English one out and Bruce/whoever for chop out will pass the test against Melbourne - who will not be run into the ground as they'll have two genuine rucks out there who can rest forward/back - and potentially even Saints/Freo/Carlton/Brisbane/Richmond, all of whom you could argue play a two ruck structure when personnel allows (or at least have a defined second ruck who can take contests when the main ruck is sitting, rather than a KPF chopping out).

If English comes back and looks like he can a) play out 90% of the game in the ruck, and b) do so while providing good service to the mids and at least halving the contest, then that'll be great. I can't say I'm confident that'll happen though, and I think it'll continue to be an issue against some of the better teams in the comp who have more established ruck divisions and structures.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Only works if English isn't fully fit otherwise English plays 90% ruck and runs his opponent into the ground and need a forward to chop out for the 10% it'll work perfectly when Bruce is back Sweet isn't the answer

Yeah that's fair. Only thing is I would guess Bruce is 4-5 to a VFL return and maybe 6-8 weeks from AFL? Who knows how well he'll be performing in that time. I'm concerned about burning out English with that amount of ruck work and around the ground. Doesn't seem sustainable as no other clubs do it AFAIK?

 

[Foxman98]

The fixture has worked out perfectly here - why not try this against WC if Tim is ready to go? Cordy might be valuable for the 1 percenters against good teams (imo jury still out on that but I won't argue the point here), but drop him for English and even if Sweet is disastrous we should still win, and if we didn't then we were never playing in September anyway. Geelong don't exactly have the best ruck division either, although we obviously do have to pick the best 22 available for that must-win game so if Sweet was dropped for that in favour of Cordy/KPF/whoever then fair enough.



Maybe, and that is obviously the preference of the MC. I'm just not a believer that English one out and Bruce/whoever for chop out will pass the test against Melbourne - who will not be run into the ground as they'll have two genuine rucks out there who can rest forward/back - and potentially even Saints/Freo/Carlton/Brisbane/Richmond, all of whom you could argue play a two ruck structure when personnel allows (or at least have a defined second ruck who can take contests when the main ruck is sitting, rather than a KPF chopping out).

If English comes back and looks like he can a) play out 90% of the game in the ruck, and b) do so while providing good service to the mids and at least halving the contest, then that'll be great. I can't say I'm confident that'll happen though, and I think it'll continue to be an issue against some of the better teams in the comp who have more established ruck divisions and structures.

You need your 2nd ruck to be able to contribute around the ground though. The sides with "2" Melbourne Jackson good forward and is mobile good mark, Carlton De Koning decent forward mobile gets the pill good mark, Freo Lobb good forward and is mobile good mark, St Kilda Marshall good forward and is mobile good mark, Gold Coast Chol good forward and is mobile good mark. Brisbane/Sydney/Richmond use two genuine rucks and it has caught them out against the teams with the mobile 2nd ruck because they dont cover the ground as well or impact the game as much. We got spanked in the hitouts on the weekend yet dominated clearances Hitouts are a very overrated stat

 

[doggies ftw]

In my simple mind getting Tim to ruck 60% of the game + play as an extra around the ground = more minutes on the field and more damaging

Sweet to ruck 40%, 30% bench, 30% playing forward/back as a crash and bash decoy. No one will ever suspect it.

Doesn’t that seem like an exhausting combo for the opposition? They can’t go with Tim and breakeven/get worn down with Sweet?

This is the thing, why does it have to be an all or nothing situation with Timmy. He’s not even a 90% ruck type, he’d be so much more effective in a 60/30 or even 50/40 role IMO, hell even let him push up to the contest as a mid.

Cordy played 65% game time on the week so even if Sweet only played 40% we only have to find another 20-30% of game time for him somewhere.

I’d be letting Sweet do most of the round the ground stoppages where Timmy gets grinded down in anyway - unleash him to be the beast he can be around the ground. He’s just still not a good ruck why burden him with stoppage work.

 

[hutchy31]

You need your 2nd ruck to be able to contribute around the ground though. The sides with "2" Melbourne Jackson good forward and is mobile good mark, Carlton De Koning decent forward mobile gets the pill good mark, Freo Lobb good forward and is mobile good mark, St Kilda Marshall good forward and is mobile good mark, Gold Coast Chol good forward and is mobile good mark. Brisbane/Sydney/Richmond use two genuine rucks and it has caught them out against the teams with the mobile 2nd ruck because they dont cover the ground as well or impact the game as much. We got spanked in the hitouts on the weekend yet dominated clearances Hitouts are a very overrated stat

I don't disagree. Makes it more frustrating from a list management perspective that the current ruck division is as thin and as apparently limited as it is in this regard, even if the good ones don't grow on trees, but that discussion has been had various times in various threads

I'm not a regular VFL watcher so will defer to those who are and many say they can't see Sweet developing into a competent around-the-ground player. On exposed form at AFL level, however, it hasn't been disastrous even if he doesn't look amazing. Would just like to see it a few more times like we have done with other players in recent years who've been given extended runs to find their feet, and no better opportunity to see how he works with English than against the bottom team. I'd also probably play him against Geelong to see how that goes, but if that's a bridge too far for some then fair enough.

One week of Sweet and English this week though, hopefully.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

McComb kicked 2 and had 7 score involvements I know we all like to shit on the bloke but he isn't getting dropped this week after that kind of performance

He seems to consistently be the worst kick in the team apart from McNeil...
I mean can those guys kick over a jam tin?