Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Come on, Bryce Gibbs wanted out after the 2016 season and wanted to go home. Officially requested a trade which was denied by Carlton. Did Carlton disregard his health and well being?
Recommitted Clayton Oliver [re-signed until 2030]
- Thread starter Footyfreak31
- Start date
- Tagged users None
LanceRomance
Brownlow Medallist
That isnt the full story, carlton didn't deny the trade. Adelaide couldn't satisfy carltons demand for 2 first round draft picks.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Likewise if Carlton can’t satisfy Melbourne demands Melbourne won’t trade him. Melbourne don’t have yo accept 2 first rounders because you say so.
Did Carlton disregard Bryce’s health and well being over draft pick demands?
Most would know that there's more than just a little smoke around Oliver.
It stands to reason that the only time we'd hear anything in an official capacity, would be only if the deal is set to go through.
No party (player, managers, club) would come out and state that there are issues behind the scenes and that a contracted Oliver wants out.
Only one of two things will come about -
1. The trade is satisfactory for Melbourne and a deal is done.
2. No trade comes about and the MFC have to state that Oliver never wanted to leave.
It stands to reason that the only time we'd hear anything in an official capacity, would be only if the deal is set to go through.
No party (player, managers, club) would come out and state that there are issues behind the scenes and that a contracted Oliver wants out.
Only one of two things will come about -
1. The trade is satisfactory for Melbourne and a deal is done.
2. No trade comes about and the MFC have to state that Oliver never wanted to leave.
LanceRomance
Brownlow Medallist
They didn't disregard it. He expressed a desire to move, the club were supportive if they found right deal.
It was complicated by the fact the Adelaide lost manager came out on day one of trade week stating that they would target Gibbs (despite the fact he had a few years left in his contract)
The rumour around this one was that they ultimately agreed to hand over two firsts but an Adelaide director intervened on the last day of trade.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Likewise Melbourne would want the right deal for Oliver if he wished to move. If Melbourne don’t get what they want they won’t be trading Oliver.
Gibbs requested a trade and Carlton didn’t trade him. Didn’t disregard his health and well being
If Oliver requested a trade and Melbourne don’t trade him is that disregarding his health and well being?
LanceRomance
Brownlow Medallist
I am not using that argument another poster is.
I note that Oliver appears to be a difficult personality however
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Yeah I responded to that poster “did Carlton disregard Bryce’s health and well-being? And you responded to that post.
- Mar 26, 2015
- 12,680
- 23,061
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Melb Tigers, Bendigo Braves, Aussie NBA
I don't think the health and wellbeing is an issue here.
They are different circumstances. Gibbs hadn't supposedly had a falling out with a teammate or the club (as rumoured with Oliver). He wanted to go back to his home state for personal/family reasons, but said he was happy to stay if a deal couldn't get done.
Rightly, or wrongly, Oliver has been rumoured to have had a falling out with Viney, as well as not being impressed with some things at the club. Assuming any of this is real, he's not asking to move states for family/compassionate grounds, and presumably wouldn't be rapt with staying on in those circumstances, so has not made his intentions public, as the fallout for him, his teammates and the club, would be greater if a deal couldn't be reached. He could come out publicly and say that he wants to move, but happy to stay if a deal can't be done, but asking to move a couple of suburbs across, while contracted, doesn't really scream 'happy to stay'. Questions would be asked.
Of course Melbourne should get the right deal for them. This is a major part of why a deal is going to be hard to achieve and most Blues supporters think it's odds on to not eventuate, despite most being keen to pursue it.
- Mar 26, 2015
- 12,680
- 23,061
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Melb Tigers, Bendigo Braves, Aussie NBA
That's just not how trades work.
"Hi, is this Josh Kelly? Yeah, Carlton here. Just wondering if you'd be interested in moving to the Dees? Yeah, umm, they're a really good club. No idea what the contract terms would be though. Oh, and Oliver won't be there if you do go."
Dees need to chase their own players with the two 1sts minimum that we would be handing over.
Of course it's ridiculous. So ridiculous it wasn't even worth mentioning.
You should be replying to our dead simple friend; the one one who proposed that bit of brilliance.
- Mar 26, 2015
- 12,680
- 23,061
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Melb Tigers, Bendigo Braves, Aussie NBA
I was tempted to when I first saw it yesterday, but got sidetracked. Then saw your reply and thought I'd just tack my thoughts onto that.
The "he is worth two first round picks" argument is nonsensical. The value of draft picks is heavily skewed towards the top end of the draft, which is why the points system is the way it is.
Now, draft watchers have Logan McDonald as the likely top live pick in this draft. Would I swap Oliver, the best contested ball winner in the AFL, for McDonald? No chance. So any offer would need to be Judd like to even be considered.
Now, draft watchers have Logan McDonald as the likely top live pick in this draft. Would I swap Oliver, the best contested ball winner in the AFL, for McDonald? No chance. So any offer would need to be Judd like to even be considered.
LanceRomance
Brownlow Medallist
Devastating Boris
Premiership Player
Assuming that they want to go to Carlton and not Melbourne or anywhere else.
- Mar 26, 2015
- 12,680
- 23,061
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Melb Tigers, Bendigo Braves, Aussie NBA
Are you familiar with the Judd trade?
Pick 3, 20 and Kennedy for Judd and pick 46. Now it doesn't matter what any of these picks or players turned into. It matters only what they were at the time of the trade.
A high 1st, a high 2nd and a young former high pick that had only played 22 games and kicked 11 goals and was surplus to our needs (we had Brad Fisher, Waite, Whitnall and Fev).
2 x 1sts and a young fringe midfielder who isn't getting the opportunities would be fairly comparable.
If you assume that Kennedy was worth #5-10 at the time, then Judd was effectively traded for the equivalent of #1 and #7-14.
The point of my post was than not all 1st rounders are worth the same. Going by the index Pick 1 on its own is worth #16, #18 and #19.
And a Carlton fringe midfielder has no value.
Chris Judd was the best player in the league
- Feb 11, 2015
- 5,160
- 8,566
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I am not definitively suggesting that Clayton Oliver situation is a matter of his health and well-being. But many times players request to leave their current club (which again, I am not saying Oliver has done so or will do so as none of us know), it can be due to being unsatisfied with the environment.
No one is denying Melbourne's right to be stubborn or demand for overs, but I'm simply referring to the club's refusal to trade him IF he happens to come forward and say he wants out.
Take this scenario for instance (with a grain of salt):
Oliver: 'After some thinking, I have decided on continuing my footy career at "_________" for "insert reason".'
Melbourne: 'NO! You are staying here! You are contracted! If there are problems, then sort them out. We'll help where we can.'
What would this say about your club?
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
It would depend what that reason is.
I don’t think anyone has said Melbourne would flatly refuse a trade or necessary ask for overs. Melbourne in its position though, finishing 9th with a percentage of 107% are with the belief they can jump up into the top 8 or even top 4. The club does not want draft picks, they want players that can make an instant impact.
Carlton would not be willing to give the players that Melbourne would ask for. Players from a third club would have to be involved and the quality of players Melbourne would want are very unlikely to be available.
Melbourne would say to Oliver, you’ve been part of our teams rebuild the past 5 years, we are looking to get back into finals next year and have success the years beyond, we absolutely love ya, We’ll do what ever we can to sort out any issues, you have your best mates Christian Petracca and Christian Salem here, let’s have big successful 2021 together.
Last edited:
Chaisa
Brownlow Medallist
- Jun 2, 2013
- 14,998
- 14,886
- AFL Club
- Sydney
- Other Teams
- The Exers
Pretty remarkable that this thread is still going (and has 40+ pages!) when Oliver hasn't said he wants out, no-one in the media seems to be bigging it up and Carlton almost certainly wouldn't have the stocks to trade for him. Is there something I'm missing or is it both fan bases being precious?
Tbh i think anyone is gettable in this trade period.
There’s a lot of smoke which would indicate a fire.
My guess is that Oliver is disgruntled over something, Melbourne are confident they can sort it out and satisfy him. Carlton are waiting in the wings to pounce in the situation that he says nope I’m out
Devastating Boris
Premiership Player
There’s a difference between being unhappy at placing 5th in the BnF and not playing finals, to wanting to leave and asking for a trade.
No one has publicly stated that he has asked for a trade or wants leave.
Off the top of my head Sam McClure, Garry Lyon, Glen Bartlett and Max Gawn have all publicly stated otherwise.
Similar threads
