Collingwood List Management Thread

[Quicky]

wouldnt touch gumbleton seriously i think he was drafted the year after thomas and that lot and i rekon hes played about 20 games
dont touch

Put in the high risk high reward basket. I don't think anyone would question the fact he is a seriously talented footballer. If our medicos ok'd it i'd be all over a trade for Gumbleton.

 

[mdc]

• Hawkins
• Wilson
• Lisle
• Gumbleton

Agree with your analysis Scodog, but I'd add that Gumbleton is the wrong sort sort of player. Need mature-bodied semi-spuds.

The other option is trying to find a capable 2nd ruck and moving Leigh Brown to depth KPF, but that's an even harder task I think.

 

[Scodog10]

Butcher is 197cm tall and rucked a bit in juniors. Whether you want to put Keeffe ahead of him in the pecking order due to his height then that is fine by me. My opinion is this team would be better off with a strong developing Key position forward prospect in VFL in Butcher than Cameron Wood who is soft, has little motivation and his tap ruckwork as really gone down the toilet this year getting smashed by 2nd rate ruckman like Will Minson and pretty much every other ruckman he has faced.

At 197cm you need to have one of two things to play in the ruck at a competent level. A leap like Paddy Ryder (which is something Butcher definitely doesn't have) and bulk like Leigh Brown which is something he won't have for at least another 3-4 years considering he's now only 89kg after 2 years in the system. Hence my comments as to why he'd get assaulted.

Its much the same as Adam Pattison. Despite going early in the 04 draft Pattison never had an impact in the ruck because he was the same height as Butcher with no leap and a severe lack of strength.

I definitely agree with the prospect of having a young developing KPF in the two's, however I'd just prefer if we took a different trade route in order to get him. As Wood, despite his flaws, is still solid enough as back-up for Jolly.

 

[PieBeast]

Sean Rusling had more longevity than Gumbleton.

Some serious D-Grade spuds are being discussed on the last page or so.
Apart from Lisle who we are absolutely no chance of getting.

 

[mdc]

Some serious D-Grade spuds are being discussed on the last page or so.
Apart from Lisle who we are absolutely no chance of getting.

We're not going to attract a B-grader or better with the prospect of playing 2's behind Cloke and Dawes. Someone in the Leigh Brown/Simon Buckley vein is exactly what we need. Would cost us very little, but would allow us to keep structures in place if Cloke or Dawes miss a month here and there.

Keefe, as much as he projects as a solid CHB, is currently an F-grade forward.

 

[Scodog10]

How is Wilson?

Callum Wilson came in and kicked 8 goals in 3 matches at the end of 2010 with the Eagles (which was no mean feat considering how they were travelling at that point in time) including a bag of 4 and has kicked around 30 odd goals in the WAFL this year.

He's really fallen down the pecking order with the emergence of Darling and the re-ermergence of Lynch. He fits the age profile at 23, but is listed at 191cm and 94 kg which is around Anthony size with a little extra bulk.

Some serious D-Grade spuds are being discussed on the last page or so.
Apart from Lisle who we are absolutely no chance of getting.

Oh great sage please share your wisdom with us! As you clearly must know of players that fit the profile of KPF depth that we have not yet mentioned, in order to justify being so critical

On a serious note considering that area is one of the hardest to fill on the ground its exceedingly difficult to find good quality depth players just lying around waiting to be raided from other clubs.

 

[PieBeast]

We're not going to attract a B-grader or better with the prospect of playing 2's behind Cloke and Dawes. Someone in the Leigh Brown/Simon Buckley vein is exactly what we need. Would cost us very little, but would allow us to keep structures in place if Cloke or Dawes miss a month here and there.

Keefe, as much as he projects as a solid CHB, is currently an F-grade forward.

Keefe still has a lot of development and improvement left. And don't forget when Nathan Brown comes back Tazza will be able to spend a lot of time up forward. I just don't see the need for the recruitment of a third rate mature forward to clog up our list.

 

[TradeDraft]

Callum Wilson came in and kicked 8 goals in 3 matches at the end of 2010 with the Eagles (which was no mean feat considering how they were travelling at that point in time) including a bag of 4 and has kicked around 30 odd goals in the WAFL this year.

He's really fallen down the pecking order with the emergence of Darling and the re-ermergence of Lynch. He fits the age profile at 23, but is listed at 191cm and 94 kg which is around Anthony size with a little extra bulk.

Must Admit seen very Little of Him so do you think he can be a Good Player for Collingwood if we did Trade for him?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I agree in trying to get a KPF who can fill in for either Cloke or Dawes. I never really thought about our lack of KPF stocks but when Dawes was injured I soon realised how ****ed we were. Keefe certainly is not a forward at this stage, and can't be relied on to fill in for us.

 

[Scodog10]

Must Admit seen very Little of Him so do you think he can be a Good Player for Collingwood if we did Trade for him?

I think he could be an ok depth player, but probably nothing more which is all we're really after in this discussion anyway. He'd be the type that could come in and play a role if need be, but I seriously doubt he could ever do enough to keep either Dawes or Cloke out of the side.

I just don't see the need for the recruitment of a third rate mature forward to clog up our list.

These comments do have merit, but fortunately with the age profile of Dawes and Cloke (barring any unforeseen circumstances) any KPF we bring to the club for the next 6-8 years, no matter their age or where they were drafted, will more than likely be nothing more than depth.

 

[mdc]

Keefe still has a lot of development and improvement left. And don't forget when Nathan Brown comes back Tazza will be able to spend a lot of time up forward. I just don't see the need for the recruitment of a third rate mature forward to clog up our list.

Keefe does, but not as a forward. And I thought about the Tarrant option, but it still means if 2 KP players go down (as is the case right now) we're compromised.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think he could be an ok depth player, but probably nothing more which is all we're really after in this discussion anyway. He'd be the type that could come in and play a role if need be, but I seriously doubt he could ever do enough to keep either Dawes or Cloke out of the side.

Then it would be Cheap to get him then

 

[TradeDraft]

These comments do have merit, but fortunately with the age profile of Dawes and Cloke (barring any unforeseen circumstances) any KPF we bring to the club for the next 6-8 years, no matter their age or where they were drafted, will more than likely be nothing more than depth.

What about James Stewart?

 

[Knightmare]

Been really analysing our potential future projected team list.

It's become clear that firstly no more midfield depth is necessary and I wouldn't target any midfielders through the draft because it would take an absolute standout midfielder to break into our rotation over the next 3-4 years. Sidebottom + Beams should in the future develop into midfields + J.Bolton, Seedsman and J.Thomas are all developing well and are absolutely looking the goods at this early stage.

The one thing I think we could look at is more medium utilities with some positional flexibility. So players in that 187-191cm type range who won't play KPP at the next level.

Through my phantom draft i've got us taking something along the lines of:
1st round: Jordan Lockyer - 190cm/85kg (Physical type who can play forward or back well)
2nd round: Aseri Raikiwasa - 191cm/91kg (Athletic defender)
3rd round: Ben Darrou - 190cm/91kg (Utility/Defender)

There are other types like these but just as some examples of the types and some specific names I would target.

Ruck prospects not of relevance this year. Getting Witts. Would recommend when Jolly retires that we trade into the best available ruckman - would be looking for a top 8 ruckman because we are in the business of winning premierships. Cameron Wood just aint gonna get us all the way and Witts + Ceglar will need more time.
No.2 option. Keeffe is a consideration and will probably end up taking over that role when L.Brown retires. But would also look for Ceglar to develop into that role. Get mainly forwardline minutes and play those minor ruck minutes. Would consider in later years Tom Hawkins if he fails at Geelong and look to restore him as either the no.2 option or as a forward.

As for KPPs.
I'd consider Talia/McInness in the 1st round as full back options - need a full back more than a centre half back because both Reid + Keeffe play better at CHB and could in 2-3 years time be our x2 best KPDs.
Outside of that I'd be happy with Hartley as a rookie to develop at full back. A combo of Tarrant/Reid/N.Brown/Keeffe/Hartley is huge depth with the first 4 all AFL quality.
As for KPFs. I really want Eddy as a rookie. Upgrade on Reilly and and Perham. Same age as Reilly but a far superior talent. Clubs will likely overlook due to ACL. Is that depth KPF the club thought Perham might have been coming into the season. Can come into the side - knows the structures and can kick a couple. Ben Brown I'd also look at as a rookie, was super keen on him last year and still would consider - project though.
Absolutely wouldn't spend on a backup KPF and if worse comes to worse Tarrant can play forward for the time being. After all we do have Reid, N.Brown and Keeffe who are all AFL quality KPDs after all.
Also got James Stewart coming along in 2012 through the F/S, so I wouldn't go out spending too big on a KPF when we can make do with pretty much what we have.

Would also consider another forward.
Would look most closely at another Alex Fasolo type because I view Beams as more of a midfielder in future years when he increases his endurance as well as defensive side to his game.
Marley Williams is probably that similar type player. Has that big kick and is also fairly ready.

If we look at a small forward then perhaps Tim Totevski I think could be a nice rookie option. One of those short types but great tackling pressure, does all the team things off the ball and has a really nice skill level. But we have Krakouer, Blair and Ugle already who are all fine. So I'd probably resist.

The other thing we might look at up forward is another medium size type. But with a full preseason on Macaffer hopefully he gets back to his 2010 form. Then we have Daniel Farmer who is developing strongly as another similar type.

So as a forward I would definitely favour that weapon type through the draft.




Trade - No obvious needs. Look for value.
I'm big on Jake Stringer. Broke his leg earlier this year. But absolute super talent who we can get via GWS. You can bet pick 1 in that mini draft is going to be O'Meara. So pick 2/3 will do it. Stringer in short is Brendon Goddard esque. Has that versatility to play either end, midfield. Just has a massive influence on the game. Would trade big to get him and would be my BIG target for trade week. Think he can be the best talent to come out of the 2012 draft - even with Whitfield and O'Meara considered the top prospects.

 

[sr36]

I'm anti the theory of no midfielders. If you look at our team, with the exception of our talls and a couple of our back flankers, they've all played their best football at lower levels as midfielders, and would all aspire to play midfield at AFL level. The best flankers are blokes who aren't quite good enough to crack full time midfield roles.

 

[Scodog10]

What about James Stewart?

I certainly won't make any concrete statements about something, that for all intents and purposes, is a while off.

So I guess the best I can do is say that with all things being equal (i.e we keep the core of our young KPP's together) he'll most likely be depth with us until 2015 at the earliest, unless Buckley chooses to change our structure before then.

Its a very good problem to have IMO and one that Hawthorn have had for a few years as well with Buddy and Roughy.

Then it would be Cheap to get him then

Right at this point in time he'd be one of those players that get's traded for a pick that doesn't get used. So yes he'd come cheap

He's probably not one to keep an eye on though anyway. Because in reality he's about .1% of a chance at making his way to Collingwood for 2012.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Agree that we should stop at looking to draft midfielders.

However we should draft with the mindset to draft whoever's best, at that time.

Because atm, we don't really have any gaping holes in terms of 5 years down the track.

Ceglar, Witts and Hartley provide a good future for our ruck and forward stocks.

Our defenders are still quite young and we have a bit of depth back there, and we still have Keefe, Tom Young, Cribbo and possibly Gordon. And Tarrant in great form which could possibly last 1 or 2 years, no dire need for defenders.

 

[Dundalis]

Keefe does, but not as a forward. And I thought about the Tarrant option, but it still means if 2 KP players go down (as is the case right now) we're compromised.

Keefe hasn't looked any better or worse than Dawes did in his first few games. Which says something given Keefe had probably played all of 5 minutes up forward previously, where Dawes had always been a key forward. Keefe is a far more naturally gifted player than Dawes also, so his potential adaptability probably should be taken into account. He may never play as well as a key forward as he will down back, but that's certainly not going to be decided after all of 3 games in the position.

 

[Knightmare]

Since our needs are VERY minimal this year it does give us the opportunity to go best available.

I certainly wouldn't be going for any pure mids. But certainly if they can play in other positions to a high standard then they should without a doubt be considered if deemed best available at any particular selection.

Quality of talent is more important this year than addressing needs, but in looking at this quality talent we need to look for players with future best 22 potential who can find a niche and a position where they could pass by our existing players. This is what I view as being most important.

 

[Optimax]

Keefe hasn't looked any better or worse than Dawes did in his first few games. Which says something given Keefe had probably played all of 5 minutes up forward previously, where Dawes had always been a key forward. Keefe is a far more naturally gifted player than Dawes also, so his potential adaptability probably should be taken into account. He may never play as well as a key forward as he will down back, but that's certainly not going to be decided after all of 3 games in the position.

I'm hardly Dawes biggest fan but Dawes kicked 3 on debut on a fantastic Defender against st.kilda, and then kicked 3 against Adelaide in a final.

Keeffe was ok against a 20y when he kicked 3 and has been barely serviceable since.

I am a keeffe fan as a defender but he is certainly no forward, and it's wrong to say he has shown more then dawes he hasn't

 

[The Get Up Kid]

Keefe is a 10 year player. He can play both ends and I think he may be a player in the future he will be thrown between ends depending on match-ups. I'm wondering about his rucking ability? Swan said he was similar to Dean Cox. He has the athleticism and just needs time.

Rememebr when Ben Reid started he was underperforming at CHF but has clearly found his niche. Keefe may be a wingman, who knows!

 

[PieBeast]

People are forgetting that Keefe was playing soccer only 4 years ago.
He might not turn out to be a dominant forward but its far too early to write him off as one.

 

[Knightmare]

At this stage I don't really like Keeffe as a forward either. Marking ability isn't up to the level you'd want. But have been encouraged by his set shot routine.

See him as more of a CHB/backup ruckman in the future.

But massive development still ahead of him and could easily surpass a N.Brown if he keeps his development up - which I expect he will considering how consistantly he has developed since joining the club.



As forwards I most likely the Cloke + Dawes combination. Dawes by providing that other big target up forward take allot of pressure off Cloke. The pair really have great chemistry and should be our KPF double for the next 6-7 years.

 

[Markfs]

Sean Rusling had more longevity than Gumbleton.

Some serious D-Grade spuds are being discussed on the last page or so.
Apart from Lisle who we are absolutely no chance of getting.

Finally!!.. Someone has raised the name of the man who should be added to the list....Sean Rusling. It's been months. We need to get a few doctors around his place to see how he's travelling. I heard he could already be living in Arizona...

 

[soreplums]

Finally!!.. Someone has raised the name of the man who should be added to the list....Sean Rusling. It's been months. We need to get a few doctors around his place to see how he's travelling. I heard he could already be living in Arizona...

Last I heard he broke his hand/wrist playing in B or C section VAFA early in the season