List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2

[stormskye]

I think Stack falls in that category partly

Perhaps. I’ve never really seen much of him tbh. Think the most touches he got was outside a kebab shop

 

[whiskeytown]

How is someone who struggles with 1 on 1 contests going to free up Moore?

Frampton took 26 contested marks down back in 15 SANFL games this year

In his AFL games down back this year he averaged 0.7 contested marks

In his last full season Roughead averaged 0.9 contested marks at full back

Where has this idea come from that Frampton is going to get rag dolled every week?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Not really and certainly not for extended periods.

McStay is undersized at 195cm and we need him playing CHF anyway. Could he pinch hit for a bit as 2nd ruck in a game or two - maybe. Playing first ruck for the full 120 mins for an extended period is a different proposition though.

Frampton hasn't ever really shown any indication of being an effective ruck at AFL level.

Mcstay just played one of his best ever games as makeshift first ruck in one of this year's finals games. He is a very capable chop out option.

 

[Pistol Night]

Perhaps. I’ve never really seen much of him tbh. Think the most touches he got was outside a kebab shop

Yeah i was agreeing with the behaviour concern of your statement

 

[domus]

Frampton took 26 contested marks down back in 15 SANFL games this year

In his AFL games down back this year he averaged 0.7 contested marks

In his last full season Roughead averaged 0.9 contested marks at full back

Where has this idea come from that Frampton is going to get rag dolled every week?

All he has to do is punch the pill and prevent his opponent from taking contested marks. Some people are determined to be depressed and annoyed by whoever we recruit.

 

[stormskye]

Yeah i was agreeing with the behaviour concern of your statement

Yeah all good it was a valid point. I wouldn’t be opposed to dfa. Could do worse.

 

[domin8tors]

I would have agreed with comment on Sidney this time last year but I think he has been re energised by Fly. Thought he was terrific this year. Still has a couple left in him.

he might lose his pace lol

 

[Mick F]

22 years of age.
2019 VFL Premiership player.
McRae was coach.
Not worth pick 51???
Come on…..
At least a rookie pick?
A likely future winger.
I reckon a re-union with Fly and Leppa is well worth a punt.

It appears we shall start next year with considerable young talent in the VFL. We should give these boys an opportunity first and foremost.
McCreery
Bianco
MacRae
McInnes
Carmichael
Draper
Harrison
Murley

 

[lyfsux]

Commercial reasons however tend to dictate our draw each season - I won't be surprised if the AFL provides double-ups for us against Richmond, Carlton, Geelong, Melbourne and Essendon in season 2023. irrespective of us finishing in 3rd this season.

Think of it this way, we halve each so that gives us 5 wins from 10

so that leaves us what another 12 games, we win all of them then that's 17 and top 4 again

 

[lyfsux]

WHE, Bianco replace brown bros

Yeah but he was my whipping boy in the 2022 thread so I'm not going off him for the 2023 version

 

[Jen2310]

The AFL will review the trade period to consider refining the rules around salary dumping and consider whether to extend the length of elite players’ first contracts from two years to three.

The league was pleased with the first experience of the new change to allow salary dumping but, as part of the annual review of the player movement period, will look at tweaking the rules.

Some clubs have pushed for the AFL to change the salary dump rules to make a club absorb the existing terms of the player tied into a salary dump in their salary cap, regardless of what they agree to actually re-contract the player for at their club.

This year Geelong was able to bring in Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

and pick 7 from the Gold Coast Suns in exchange for just a future third-round pick under the first major salary dump the AFL has seen.

The Bowes salary dump will have the most far-reaching consequences of any trade of the recent player movement window and will fundamentally re-shape how trade periods are run in the future.

Effectively, Geelong was given pick No.7 as an incentive if they took Bowes, who was contracted for $825,000 per year for two more years, off the Suns’ books.

Geelong was able to bring Bowes in and renegotiate a new contract with him, thereby spreading his big contract out over a longer period of time. So, the Cats will only have the new four-year terms of Bowes’ contract in their salary cap.

Clubs have argued for, and the AFL will now consider, a change that would require a club in Geelong’s situation in future to have to keep the $825,000 from a Bowes-type contract in their salary cap for two years, not the smoothed out contract amount they are actually paying him.

Where you draw the line on what a salary dump is, and what is a regular trade, would be debatable, as often a traded player can take revised lower terms at a new club, or have a large portion of his contract paid by his club to play elsewhere.

Potentially, a demarcation line would be based on whether the recipient club gives up a worse pick than the one they are receiving for taking on a big contract.


For instance, Tom Mitchell and Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

were not technically salary dumps, even though their two original clubs are paying a chunk of their salaries to play elsewhere in future, because in both cases Hawthorn and Collingwood received more compensation in draft picks than they gave up.
The AFL is not committed to making this change, but it is a tweak they will consider based on feedback from clubs.

Troubled by players leaving clubs, especially in emerging markets, to move early in their careers, as well as regard for the inflationary effect of massive salary demands from second-year players for their first unregulated contracts, the AFL will explore whether the initial player contract could, or should, be extended from two to three years, possibly only for first and second round draftees.
Any change to this would be difficult and require the involvement, and agreement, of the AFL Players’ Association.

Trade post-mortem: AFL to consider tweaks for the ‘salary dump’

The AFL will review the trade period to consider refining the rules around salary dumping and consider whether to extend the length of elite players’ first contracts from two years to three.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Vicky Park]

Came home to find this on the door to the balcony.

Handy, because I was looking for some toilet paper.

 

[partypie]

Mcstay just played one of his best ever games as makeshift first ruck in one of this year's finals games. He is a very capable chop out option.

Again it was one game as a makeshift ruck. That's a very different proposition to doing it week in, week out against opposing rucks he's giving up 3-5 inches and 5-10kg to, and that's not even taking into account that we need him playing at CHF to straighten us up when we're going forward whichbbed him in the first place.

If we end up having to play McStay in the ruck next year for extended periods then things would already be going rather badly for us I suspect.

 

[jonbe54]

Came home to find this on the door to the balcony.

Handy, because I was looking for some toilet paper.

View attachment 1535585

Give him hell VP

 

[gouki88]

Again it was one game as a makeshift ruck. That's a very different proposition to doing it week in, week out against opposing rucks he's giving up 3-5 inches and 5-10kg to, and that's not even taking into account that we need him playing at CHF to straighten us up when we're going forward whichbbed him in the first place.

If we end up having to play McStay in the ruck next year for extended periods then things would already be going rather badly for us I suspect.

He pinch-hit in the ruck quite a lot in the back-half of the season. Not just a one off

 

[MooreTreloar]

Came home to find this on the door to the balcony.

Handy, because I was looking for some toilet paper.

View attachment 1535585

Have you found that divorce lawyer yet Vicky Park?

 

[jonbe54]

Again it was one game as a makeshift ruck. That's a very different proposition to doing it week in, week out against opposing rucks he's giving up 3-5 inches and 5-10kg to, and that's not even taking into account that we need him playing at CHF to straighten us up when we're going forward.

If we end up having to play McStay in the ruck next year for extended periods then things would already be going rather badly for us I suspect.

Perhaps he could handle some of the forward line ruck work to allow Cam/Cox to remain in the 50F/50D arc more. Gives us at least an extra marking threat to block turnovers before the opposition can get to a scoring position.

I soooo hate coast to coasters against us!

 

[partypie]

He pinch-hit in the ruck quite a lot in the back-half of the season. Not just a one off

And this eqautes to being first ruck for extended periods in case of injury to Cameron and Cox how exactly?

You all keep throwing up the same argument (he did it in a game or was backup ruck in a few games last season), and in the process keep side-stepping the obvious issues with McStay having to play first ruck for any length of time (both structurally and for his own fitness), if we're unlucky with injuries to Cameron and Cox.

 

[partypie]

Perhaps he could handle some of the forward line ruck work to allow Cam/Cox to remain in the 50F/50D arc more. Gives us at least an extra marking threat to block turnovers before the opposition can get to a scoring position.

I soooo hate coast to coasters against us!

We're talking about situations where Cameron and Cox aren't available here, ie. who comes next.

My point here is that we are far more reliant on those two standing up than I think most realise at the moment. Definitely a point of significant risk assuming Begg still needs a lot of work - might end up having to rely on Frampton which wouldn't be good for us I suspect.

 

[lyfsux]

Came home to find this on the door to the balcony.

Handy, because I was looking for some toilet paper.

View attachment 1535585

How many more buttons have you got for him push VP surely the dog box is creeping up

 

[gouki88]

And this eqautes to being first ruck for extended periods in case of injury to Cameron and Cox how exactly?

You all keep throwing up the same argument (he did it in a game or was backup ruck in a few games last season), and in the process keep side-stepping the obvious issues with McStay having to play first ruck for any length of time (both structurally and for his own fitness), if we're unlucky with injuries to Cameron and Cox.

Nobody ever said it did, just that you're misrepresenting it by writing "Again it was one game as a makeshift ruck."

 

[SchuPie]

It appears we shall start next year with considerable young talent in the VFL. We should give these boys an opportunity first and foremost.
McCreery
Bianco
MacRae
McInnes
Carmichael
Draper
Harrison
Murley

McCreery - would love him to be able to have stints further up the ground

Carmichael needs to shred over summer

Really want to see Draper / HH / McInnes as full-time mids in the 2s pushing for the odd game in the 1s

Murly has ability but given his size, what’s his future position?

 

[jonbe54]

We're talking about situations where Cameron and Cox aren't available here, ie. who comes next.

My point here is that we are far more reliant on those two standing up than I think most realise at the moment. Definitely a point of significant risk assuming Begg still needs a lot of work - might end up having to rely on Frampton which wouldn't be good for us I suspect.

Oh I couldn't agree more we need another mature and capable option but my brain doesn't work in straight lines like most people's brains it usually sparks off on related tracks.

Hence the thought on how we could make use of his limited rucking capacity advantageously.

 

[domin8tors]

Frampton took 26 contested marks down back in 15 SANFL games this year

In his AFL games down back this year he averaged 0.7 contested marks

In his last full season Roughead averaged 0.9 contested marks at full back

Where has this idea come from that Frampton is going to get rag dolled every week?

and he played in an adelaide side that had a fairly crap team defensive system

 

[Vicky Park]

How many more buttons have you got for him push VP surely the dog box is creeping up

Yep, it’s getting boring. Sad that someone seems so pleased with himself. He’ll pay for it.