List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[CFC2010]

His clauses weren't set very high if that's what did it, cause he's been average for 3 years now.

I'm glad the club is thinking this way if true, being ruthless can only help

I don't mind the ruthless part not sure if it fosters team morale.

 

[Jasper84]

Posters have out against Cloke I don't care what they think anymore. Their hatred for the man will always cloud their judgement. He's been a scapegoat of the board and Buckley has run with it.

I really don't think that many people on here hate Cloke. If anything, most are looking at his performance this year objectively and have accepted that for a 29 year old with over 10 years in the game, it was poor.

Is it possible that maybe your love for Cloke and dislike for the coach is clouding your judgement and as a result, your making excuses for his sub par performances?

 

[Dynamics]

heard that degoey is on trade table.

Purple monkey dishwasher.

 

[ThexderX]

Apart from Shaw these guys have been pretty good at trading out guys who subsequently perform poorly.


Apart from Shaw, who else do you want back.

Spot on mate.

Our recruiting in and out has been spot on.

Even Shaw was a good out because he is a space cadet.

 

[CFC2010]

That's some fair intelligence you have there, Levendi.
The fact that the strategy got out to you points to 3 things.
1) The Pies were brazen by talking about it openly in the club and hence legal action is a real possibility. Fair arrogance.
2) someone has taken creative licence with the story and added a bit of mayo.
3) your source has connections to someone who doesn't know when to keep his/her mouth shut.

I'll plead the fifth on this one levendi..........probably said too much anyway.

 

[DaVe86]

The decision to trade shaw was a questionable one, but i think the actual deal itself was a good one. Shaw for adams is as much a win/win trade I've seen

 

[jatsad]

In what world is Lin Jong worth pick 26?

GC would be mad to pay that.

But they've got lots of picks and may not use them all. 4 second rounders as well. Not without a chance.

 

[whiskeytown]

There comes a time when a player has to take responsibility for getting the best out of himself. If he thinks that a change of environment will spark that sense of responsibility, good luck to him. I'll wait to see what comes of it before I start plotting the demise of the club.
I would have preferred that he stayed but I'm not going to absolve him all responsibility when it comes to his substandard performances. IMO, him being a scapegoat for the board is a convenient argument for some who stop at the coaching variable and don't want to look any further.

I'm not sure how 750k cloke can escape scrutiny after a 17 goal season... his only haul in a game when he wore a performance enhancing glove that was banned the week later because it was stickier than a Boston Bun at an orgy. If that's peoples definition of a scapegoat then I hope they have another excuse lined up when he stinks it up at the dogs. I still love clokey, but he's cooked.

 

[Jasper84]

I'll plead the fifth on this one levendi..........probably said too much anyway.

The club may have had ulterior motives for dropping Cloke the first time but it wasn't like it he made it difficult to justify. He was woeful in the preseason and average to bad in the first few rounds. In reality he had one big game and a couple where he was average at best this year.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I really don't think that many people on here hate Cloke. If anything, most are looking at his performance this year objectively and have accepted that for a 29 year old with over 10 years in the game, it was poor.

Is it possible that maybe your love for Cloke and dislike for the coach is clouding your judgement and as a result, your making excuses for his sub par performances?

Spot on.
Who here displays any "hatred" towards Cloke?
Seriously that's so far off.
People may feel his time is done with us, but that's not hate.
I think you are right, the poster is a bit too clouded by love in for Cloke, as is their right, and something a bit to do with the coach.
I'd say most wish Cloke well, except when he plays us.

 

[RupetFan]

He really isn't. All his kicks are safe and non damaging and even then he can miss some. Lumumba at least set up fast breaks and got the momentum of the play moving forward.

Yeah tumbling forward to the opposition. Rather Smith not turn it over and I think other would too.

 

[jatsad]

Jong isnt in any best 22 players in any team so how the hell can he be a pick 27.

He was doin' pretty well last week. In a final. Best 22.

 

[CFC2010]

The club may have had ulterior motives for dropping Cloke the first time but it wasn't like it he made it difficult to justify. He was woeful in the preseason and average to bad in the first few rounds. In reality he had one big game and a couple where he was average at best this year.

Again Jasper........I never have absolved the Cloke's of blame in regards to the fact he will be at the Dogs next year and beyond..........I just hope his replacement is a lot better than White.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but he is not the answer.

 

[jatsad]

Hate to say it cause I hate the scum with passion but if Weitering Plowman Curnow McKay Marchbank reach there potential.i think within 3 years they will have the best big key position players in the league.

Weitering the only one with any exposed form at all.
Plowman is just a plodder and a bit of a ball butcher.
Marchbank is constantly injured.
The others, well we'll wait and see.

Nothing to get too excited about.

 

[mike123]

I really don't think that many people on here hate Cloke. If anything, most are looking at his performance this year objectively and have accepted that for a 29 year old with over 10 years in the game, it was poor.

Is it possible that maybe your love for Cloke and dislike for the coach is clouding your judgement and as a result, your making excuses for his sub par performances?

It possible, but I'm of the opinion of vice versa (obviously). I don't think Cloke's performances were great but given the continuity at AFL level he was given and our crap delivery from the midfield he was always going to struggle. Given what he had to work with he did okay. When we move the ball fluently and deliver it to his advantage we the the GWS game and to a lesser extent even the Hawthorn game. If we were to fix up our ball movement earlier in the season and be more consistent with overall through out the season Cloke would have done better. Posters don't seem to grasp that ball movement is out of his control for the most part. Statistically he was only down on goals. His marking power which has always been his strength was still there. Which I'm okay with. I'd rather guys like Cloke get the ball up the field and Moore getting the shots on goals. Though for some reason we didn't like to play them together even though when we did it worked.

 

[mike123]

The decision to trade shaw was a questionable one, but i think the actual deal itself was a good one. Shaw for adams is as much a win/win trade I've seen

There were other ways of getting Adams you know...

 

[Jasper84]

Again Jasper........I never have absolved the Cloke's of blame in regards to the fact he will be at the Dogs next year and beyond..........I just hope his replacement is a lot better than White.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but he is not the answer.

I agree that White is not the answer but I don't think any average kpf is the answer. I would rather us go smaller than have a "Cloke like" replacement. These days you just can't afford to carry a mediocre tall forward anymore.

 

[DaVe86]

There were other ways of getting Adams you know...

If u read my post, i said i was purely talking about the actual deal, not the decision to put shaw on the trade table.

It was a win/win trade. Whether Shaw should have been on the table is another question. But the decision was ultimately made and we secured a fair trade

 

[TradeDraft]

The decision to trade shaw was a questionable one, but i think the actual deal itself was a good one. Shaw for adams is as much a win/win trade I've seen

I could understand why we traded Heater. He was Stale at Collingwood and Trade help him extend his Career.

Bucks was getting Sick of Heater acting out On-Field.

Getting Adams mean we got Equal Value

 

[Kappa]

Spot on mate.

Our recruiting in and out has been spot on.

Even Shaw was a good out because he is a space cadet.

Then why hasn't our performance improved?

 

[RupetFan]

People who say the Shaw/Adams trade wasn't a win win are just so annoying.

Shaw has said he'd of been retired right now if he continued his career at Coll, he wasn't enjoying it. He's now playing some great footy and Taylor Adams has become our most important player.

 

[ThePhantom777]

There were other ways of getting Adams you know...

Interesting you say that. Just had a chat with Brett Anderson from SEN on Twitter about this and he reckons Adams wanted to come back Vic, first deal in front of GWS was from Richmond and he was happy to go there but the deal fell through when Tigers wouldn't give up pick 12 for him. So we got him. Wonder what else would have satisfied?

 

[pablo disco bar]

Collingwood need to somehow get involved with hawthorn and gokd coast and end up with sicily

 

[ThexderX]

Then why hasn't our performance improved?

Making the correct decisions on a trade basis doesn't necessarily equal on field success.

Trading Cloke for pick 1 would be an instant master stroke right? We would all call that a Win, no question.

What if pick 1 never played a game because he died in a car crash?

Extreme example, but you get what I mean.

We traded our players who have gone on largely to do nothing. The players we got in have had varying levels of success.

We've also lost players to retirement etc affecting our results.

 

[RupetFan]

Hate to say it cause I hate the scum with passion but if Weitering Plowman Curnow McKay Marchbank reach there potential.i think within 3 years they will have the best big key position players in the league.

Bahhaha. Weitering is the only one there with massive talent. Have you seen Carltons development of players?