Collingwood vs Melbourne Matchday Discussion.

[Chief Ten Beers]

First time I was hoping the other team would win!

Collingwood would've learnt more that way!

 

[RTsoft]

Fraser
Davis
Medhurst
Cloke

I thought all these blokes were poor, also thought they suffered as a result of poor entry, guys like Swan and Thomas can get the footy, they just need more composure when they look into the 50.

Long bombs into the forward 50 contributed to the 9.22 scoreboard.

Great game though.

 

[loki04]

Anyone who thinks Leigh Brown and Josh "useless" Fraser has a spot in this 22 is flipping kidding themselves including you Malthouse.


We mise well put a fking sign up in the center with directions to quickest way to goal for opposition teams, it's fking disgraceful how fast teams can score on us and how teams can hold up our movement.

People say we are a shit team coached above ourselves, i say fk that we are a good team handicapped by shit game plan and selection.

Yes we kicked a tonne of points but a lot of those points were either under huge amount of pressure or on the boundary.

 

[ksardog]

Fraser
Davis
Medhurst
Cloke

I thought all these blokes were poor, also thought they suffered as a result of poor entry, guys like Swan and Thomas can get the footy, they just need more composure when they look into the 50.

Long bombs into the forward 50 contributed to the 9.22 scoreboard.

Great game though.

im pretty sure cloke ripped yohr side apart last time we played u, worry about your on side. but your right about fraser, hes finished

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

Apart from in front of the big sticks, I felt Collingwood were the better side.

Had a strange feeling of deja vu watching Brad Dick today.

 

[DWil6]

29% scoring accuracy will pretty much guarantee a loss in any game. It's a problem we have had all year.

 

[loki04]

29% scoring accuracy will pretty much guarantee a loss in any game. It's a problem we have had all year.

Doesn't help when half your shots come from the MCG car park.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Doesn't help when half your shots come from the MCG car park.

Then the players taking these shots need to lower their eyes.

If we force a goal from a ball up one in every six times they miss one of these shots we're breaking even. It's ludicrous.

 

[loki04]

Then the players taking these shots need to lower their eyes.

If we force a goal from a ball up one in every six times they miss one of these shots we're breaking even. It's ludicrous.

Flawed game plan is flawed.

 

[KissStephanie]

we were shit. forget wondering if we can beat Geelong, that was pathetic!!!

Fair go. I'm thankful for a draw. I thought we were beaten because teams that kick that poorly should lose. I don't think that any team should be wondering if they can beat Geelong currently, because I don't think any of them can.

That may be a different story in ten weeks time though, and I just want Collingwood to qualify as high as possible for now, and then see what happens. Sydney after the bye is an important match before matches against West Coast and Port Adelaide which we should win well.

 

[chinggis77]

Brad Dick>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leon Davis

Leon should go to the magoos for the rest of the year now that Dick is back. Great effort after having played a whole game on the weekend as well.

 

[JOELY]

think we were pretty lucky to come away with something in the end. they were running all over us in the last quarter. green could have creamed us a couple times but missed. maxwell injury hurt too. brad dick good to have you back.

 

[RTsoft]

im pretty sure cloke ripped yohr side apart last time we played u, worry about your on side. but your right about fraser, hes finished

Toughen up. Im making comment on todays game.

29% scoring accuracy will pretty much guarantee a loss in any game. It's a problem we have had all year.

Doesn't help when half your shots come from the MCG car park.

Flawed game plan is flawed.

Guess you have to look at where the problems start.

Personally I dont think you have enough quality ball users, there's alot of good ball winners, you cant help but admire Swan he finds alot of the footy, just really needs to stop slamming it on the boot.

That's a hard habit to break.

Guys like Davey and Morton, hell even Moloney all have that ability to spot up targets going forward, they lower their eyes.

At the moment it's a volume game for the pies, very reminiscent of Adelaide of a few years ago, really strong all over the ground but struggles to get it done at the business end on the board.

Might need to rethink the f50 entries.

 

[Kipz]

Shithouse

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Flawed game plan is flawed.

The point is that the players still pursue stupid shots "from the carpark" instead of simply stepping over the line and resetting.

I'm positive that we'd score a goal at least once every six times that there's a restart in our forward pocket/forward flank.

These shots are low percentage, and the playing group only have their own selfishness to blame

 

[KissStephanie]

At the moment it's a volume game for the pies, very reminiscent of Adelaide of a few years ago, really strong all over the ground but struggles to get it down at the business end on the board.

That's a lovely story, but it's not accurate. Both teams were 75% effective with their ball use which was quite good. Melbourne had 38 clangers to Collingwood's 31. Dane Swan averages 73% disposal efficiency, but he was only 66% today. Collingwood's two best ball users are Scott Pendlebury and Alan Didak, and whilst Pendlebury's 63% efficiency was down, Didak was missing. Moloney, Morton and Davey all used the ball very well today, but not so much last week. In fact, Moloney butchered the ball last week against Carlton when he was 56% effective with 6 clangers.

I think the biggest problem that Collingwood has is trying to find a settled forward line because there are almost too many options to pick a team from. Dawes, Anthony, and Leigh Brown have all been used as marking forwards in support for Cloke, and Fraser has been tried too which hasn't worked. This needs to be solved because the midfielders are currently having a problem spotting up forwards. That said, I think you need to spend more time analysing your own team as they are free falling down the ladder.

 

[macleodboy07]

just a thought i had. didnt wanna make another annoying thread so hopefully someone agrees with me in here haha.

not sure if it has been mentioned but i thought today when we started as good as we did. i thought we were going to win and win easy.
then bailey made some changes to how his team was playing to counter how we started.
then i thort MM did nothing. he did nothing to change things up once again after melbourne clearly had control after quarter time.
i thought after half time, after seeing the 2nd quarter we would tweak something here and there and regain control and kick away. but no. once again MM just stuck with him plan which wasnt working and we were lucky to come away with a draw.

if u ask me bailey completely outcoached MM for the 2nd time this year.
the sooner we get some fresh minds into out coaching ranks the better.


just what i think anyway.
would be interested to hear other peoples opinion

 

[RTsoft]

In fact, Moloney butchered the ball last week against Carlton when he was 56% effective with 6 clangers.

Very different conditions last week, pretty sure it was raining for a fair portion of the game, generally as the conditions get worse, so do the skills.

You can use any stats you like, but the all the evidence you really need is on the scoreboard. 9.22 Come on.

Are high bombs to contests clangers? Are long bombs deep into the pockets reflected in the DE stats?

Swan, I admire his ability to find the footy, but he really needs to change his approach when disposing of the ball into the forward 50. You should be able to acknowledge that without getting defensive.

No Didak did hurt you guys today, but I still think you need some more quality ball users in the middle and across half forward.

Dale Thomas, didnt see him kick it over 20 metres today, seems to have gone into his shell kicking wise. Pendlebury is a good kick.

But at the end of the day, the ball users you need to win a flag arent there, just my opinion which, no doubt you'll attempt to undermind with a myriad of stats.

I think the biggest problem that Collingwood has is trying to find a settled forward line because there are almost too many options to pick a team from. Dawes, Anthony, and Leigh Brown have all been used as marking forwards in support for Cloke, and Fraser has been tried too which hasn't worked.

Too many options in the forward 50 isnt an issue.

This needs to be solved because the midfielders are currently having a problem spotting up forwards.

This is the problem, not enough composure going forward, a lack of class.

As I said, it's a similar issue to Adelaide a few years back, won plenty of the ball, just couldnt use it well going inside forward 50.

Volume, no system.

That said, I think you need to spend more time analysing your own team as they are free falling down the ladder.

Free fall?

WWLL as opposed to LLWD in the last month?

Please, we havent ever proclaimed to be premiership contenders, our side is developing well.

I dont understand why some people cannot handle constructive criticism.

 

[loki04]

The point is that the players still pursue stupid shots "from the carpark" instead of simply stepping over the line and resetting.

I'm positive that we'd score a goal at least once every six times that there's a restart in our forward pocket/forward flank.

These shots are low percentage, and the playing group only have their own selfishness to blame

The reason they are having these shots is because by the time the ball has come into the forward 50 there is no space to lead forcing the leader wide, he then can't spot up a player due to having close to 20 players from both teams in the f50 clogging it up.

Surely you have noticed how much space even the poorer teams have when they break through the center against us (which is most thrusts) which puts undue pressure on the backs. Then when we come forward it is so wide that if the opposition are clued in they just crowd the side of the ground we are on forcing us to kick to:

A) a contested f50.
B) a very wide lead on the boundary literally.

 

[KissStephanie]

Very different conditions last week, pretty sure it was raining for a fair portion of the game, generally as the conditions get worse, so do the skills.

Don't be ridiculous. The weather conditions are no excuse because the best players can equally use the ball well in any conditions.

You can use any stats you like, but the all the evidence you really need is on the scoreboard. 9.22 Come on.

It is not at all. It's quite evident that you're objective is to unfairly criticise Collingwood, but I don't think that this board is the place for that. I am not disputing that Collingwood's goalkicking has not been good enough too often this season, but settling on a marking forward to support Cloke has been the biggest problem this season.

Are high bombs to contests clangers? Are long bombs deep into the pockets reflected in the DE stats?

High bombs to contests are not clangers, and I don't know what you mean by long bombs to the pockets.

Swan, I admire his ability to find the footy, but he really needs to change his approach when disposing of the ball into the forward 50. You should be able to acknowledge that without getting defensive.

If I agreed with it then I would acknowledge, but I don't. I think that Swan's biggest problem has been trying to find a marking forward which goes back to the problem of trying to find a second market forward in support for Cloke. That problem definitely effects the midfielders. John Anthony hasn't worked. Leigh Brown is not the answer. Chris Dawes is probably the best option in my opinion but is still learning the game.

No Didak did hurt you guys today, but I still think you need some more quality ball users in the middle and across half forward.

Of course Alan Didak missing hurt because he averages five inside-50's and he uses the ball so well, but I don't think the problem is regarding ball use across in the middle and half forward, but more to do with trying to spot a second marking forward in support for Cloke. Leigh Brown is not the answer. John Anthony hasn't worked this season. Chris Dawes is the best option but is still learning the game. Collingwood are currently relying too much on small and medium goalkickers and they hard for midfielders to spot up on a regular basis.

Dale Thomas, didnt see him kick it over 20 metres today, seems to have gone into his shell kicking wise. Pendlebury is a good kick.

It seems to me that you're basing all of your opinion on what you saw today only, and that is the reason that you are being unfair and that I don't agree with you.

But at the end of the day, the ball users you need to win a flag arent there, just my opinion which, no doubt you'll attempt to undermind with a myriad of stats.

The end of which day? A premiership wasn't won or lost today as much as you seem to think it was. Only one week ago exactly, I heard four different footy analysts state on the radio that Collingwood's midfield and ball use has improved dramatically this season and are fair dinkum premiership contenders.

Now an opinion is neither right nor wrong, but those opinions mean much more to me because not only do I respect them more, but they seemed much fairer in their opinion and were looking at it much deeper than you are. The ball use is not the problem. Finding a second marking forward option in support of Cloke is the bloody problem.

Too many options in the forward 50 isnt an issue.

Bullshit. It's causing plenty of problems because Collingwood are having difficulty settling on a second forward marking option in support for Cloke. That is obvious to anybody that knows what they're on about.

This is the problem, not enough composure going forward, a lack of class.

No it's not. The problem is not the ball use as those four analysts stated only one week ago. The problem is finding a second forward marking option in support for Cloke.

As I said, it's a similar issue to Adelaide a few years back, won plenty of the ball, just couldnt use it well going inside forward 50.

It's not similar to Adelaide a few years back either though. How did you come to that conclusion? There is very little in common when comparing effective ball use and inside-50's.

Volume, no system.

But that's not accurate though.

Free fall?

I was actually referring to the last two weeks only, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself because Carlton are so hot and cold that I think they will bounce back and win next week.

Please, we havent ever proclaimed to be premiership contenders, our side is developing well.

I disagree. There are some players that are developing well, but quite a few that are not up to it. Fremantle's best team is older than Collingwood's best team in my opinion, and they need Pavlich to perform in the future to be successful, but he will be retired by then.

I dont understand why some people cannot handle constructive criticism.

Constructive is fine, but I disagree with you. Collingwood's ball use is not the problem. Finding a second marking option in support of Cloke is the problem that is effecting the midfield.

 

[loki04]

Toughen up. Im making comment on todays game.







Guess you have to look at where the problems start.

Personally I dont think you have enough quality ball users, there's alot of good ball winners, you cant help but admire Swan he finds alot of the footy, just really needs to stop slamming it on the boot.

That's a hard habit to break.

Guys like Davey and Morton, hell even Moloney all have that ability to spot up targets going forward, they lower their eyes.

At the moment it's a volume game for the pies, very reminiscent of Adelaide of a few years ago, really strong all over the ground but struggles to get it done at the business end on the board.

Might need to rethink the f50 entries.

I can see why you would think this but Swan is our best player and his disposal is generally fine, obviously his kicking is no Buckley-esque but more often then not he chooses the right option and delivers.

Our problem stems deeper then Swan' perceived kicking flaws.

 

[The Exorcist]

I can see why you would think this but Swan is our best player and his disposal is generally fine, obviously his kicking is no Buckley-esque but more often then not he chooses the right option and delivers.

Our problem stems deeper then Swan' perceived kicking flaws.

Swan's a gun, no doubt about that

And never understood those who question his disposal - yes, he's no Ablett, but who is? Swan's disposal is fine

I only really see Collingwood on television or Carlton games, but with players like Davis, Medhurst (apart from about a year and a half ago), Fraser and Cloke who tend not to perform when you really what them too, it's going to be really hard to take that next step. If I were a Pie supporter I'd find Davis really frustrating

O'Brien down back is excellent, Maxwell, Presti etc, but that ain't your problem.

Some other players have come along this year, ie. looks like Daisy is doing well, and I'd be playing Dawes every week to get some AFL miles into him. He looks better long term than Cloke

And am not trolling, still bank you guys to finish top 4, top 6 at worst

There's now a gap appearing between the Cats (and probably Saints) and everyone else at this stage, and a few weeks back your form indicated that gap was a lot closer than it is now.

Put money on the Saints to get their act right again at season's end

 

[loki04]

Swan's a gun, no doubt about that

And never understood those who question his disposal - yes, he's no Ablett, but who is? Swan's disposal is fine

I only really see Collingwood on television or Carlton games, but with players like Davis, Medhurst (apart from about a year and a half ago), Fraser and Cloke who tend not to perform when you really what them too, it's going to be really hard to take that next step. If I were a Pie supporter I'd find Davis really frustrating

O'Brien down back is excellent, Maxwell, Presti etc, but that ain't your problem.

Some other players have come along this year, ie. looks like Daisy is doing well, and I'd be playing Dawes every week to get some AFL miles into him. He looks better long term than Cloke

And am not trolling, still bank you guys to finish top 4, top 6 at worst

There's now a gap appearing between the Cats (and probably Saints) and everyone else at this stage, and a few weeks back your form indicated that gap was a lot closer than it is now.

Put money on the Saints to get their act right again at season's end

Yeah fair post but personnel is only part of the problem imo for me selection and tactics/game plan are the main issue's stopping us moving forward. Some of the players who go missing, do so due to having their space to work in clogged up, or having to compete with 3 defender ala cloke.

 

[Biffinator]

Guys.

last week I had to put up with some obnoxious Carrrrrlton supporters - can't someone develop a strain of Myxomatosis that targets only those creeps? This week, the family and I were sitting with a group of Collingwood supporters who were rightly passionate about their team and we all had a ball together.

Indeed, it was a pleasure to sit with your people. As much as I love my Demons - and an extra point would have been sensational - Collingwood, by any measure, is the greatest team of all - and I wish you all the best for the rest of the season. We won't play again this season so we'll see you in 2011.

Biffinator.

 

[Deefolt]

as soon as brad dick came in I felt very upset.

He does really well against us

Freaking good game though