Strategy Collingwood's Best 22 2015

[Baird]

Toovey, Brown, Williams
Langdon, Reid, Seedsman
Varcoe, Pendlebury, Sidebottom
Karnezis, Cloke, Elliott
Fasolo, White, De Goey
Follow: Grundy, Swan, Greenwood
Inter: Adams, Witts, Broomhead, Goldsack


Emg: Crisp, Sinclair, Kennedy, Freeman

 

[Nicco_jj]

We should be trying to copy and better the Hawthorn plan of having a forward line full of dangerous players who are each capable of kicking 4+ goals. The quality of their medium/small forwards is incredible... Gunston, Lewis, Breust, Puopolo, Shiels, etc
For this reason our fwd line could look like:

Karnezis Cloke De Goey
Elliott White Fasolo

All those guys can actually mark. And all except Cloke are capable midfielders too (white ruck).

I would expect that De Goey and Faz would be the least consistent to begin with, and long term we want JDG playing midfield, but I think for this season this could be as close to a Hawks style forward line we can have.

 

[Schraderbrau]

You've got Reid twice. No Brown, Grundy, Fasolo, Karnezis, Kennedy, Freeman, Thomas or Toovey.

Fixed the Reid error.

Presently Grundy is not better than Witts imo - the only way he plays is if we ditch White and a tall defender and play 2 rucks with a smaller forward line. One preseason game does not justify spots for Fasolo and Karnezis. Kennedy and Freeman have shown nothing at senior level to justify their selection in the 22 yet.Thomas is very close but his kicking is isn't up to scratch. Toovey is terrific at what he does but his kicking isn't constructive enough enough in possession imo (I prefer Langdon and Seedsman in his possession even if they're not as strong defensively, I admit though Toovey will almost certainly be in Bucks best 22).

 

[Schraderbrau]

Reid and Brown play vastly different roles, but yes Reid is the more rounded player.

Keefe has potential but isn't anywhere near as reliable and gets found out against big bodied defenders and is also a massive confidence player.

Frost is a poor man's Brown in just about every aspect of his game.

Brown is a good/average player however Frost is significantly better than him as a defender imo (except for in possession, not that Brown is that great in that department either).

The defensive side of Keefe's game last season was disappointing but he is still very handy on the rebound for a 200cm + player. He provides a lot of value to our best 22 because it means Reid can either play as the +1 (which many believe is his best position) or as a key forward (which structurally might be important because White has a habit of giving us nothing). Keefe, on account of his height, is also our best match up for the opposition resting ruckman which is becoming more popular these days.

In order of importance, Reid>Frost>>>>Keefe>Brown imo.

 

[Schraderbrau]

We should be trying to copy and better the Hawthorn plan of having a forward line full of dangerous players who are each capable of kicking 4+ goals. The quality of their medium/small forwards is incredible... Gunston, Lewis, Breust, Puopolo, Shiels, etc
For this reason our fwd line could look like:

Karnezis Cloke De Goey
Elliott White Fasolo

All those guys can actually mark. And all except Cloke are capable midfielders too (white ruck).

I would expect that De Goey and Faz would be the least consistent to begin with, and long term we want JDG playing midfield, but I think for this season this could be as close to a Hawks style forward line we can have.

Hawthorns forward line is made to look awesome because of the first rate delivery they receive. I mean, if Gunston played for us last season we'd probably be talking about delisting him because he just wouldn't be able to handle the rubbish we managed to give to our forwards on a weekly basis.

The difference the two lists is that Rioli, Breust, Puopolo + there resting mids, and even Roughead for that matter, are all great crumbers. All of our guys that you mention are below average. We can only afford so many mid-small forwards who mark and not do much else. Right now Elliot is the incumbent and a fair way ahead of Fasolo and Karnezis. Broomhead seems to me to be our best natural crumber atm and he's also one our most efficient users of the ball. Dwyer is the next best imo and perhaps Kennedy or Blair after that but they are a fair way off it tbh. Having quality crumbers is something we've missed a lot in recent years, Cloke never gets outmarked and the ball hits the deck a lot yet we haven't had the players to take advantage of it. I also like Goldsack up forward because of the perceived pressure he creates and he can be an awkward match up because of his height and pace.

 

[Gone Critical]

Players who I see as locks for round 1 are Pendles, Swan, Cloke, Sidebottom, Reid, Witts, Elliott, Grundy, Brown, Toovey, Langdon, Williams, Varcoe, Greenwood, Fasolo, Goldsack and Adams. That is 17 that could slip to 16 depending on Reids fitness

Leaves at most 6 places and a mixture of needs to fill with a lot vying for a spot

Big guys White, Keefe and Frost will probably take 2 spots. It could end up being only 1 with a fit Reid. Then we have a big group of mixed small to mid size all with claims on a spot.

Karnezis, Kennedy, Blair, Broomhead, Thomas, Sinclair, Dwyer, Seedsman, De Goey, Freeman, Crisp, Ramsay and even Oxley. Young and Berg not yet considered and other youngsters not ready. Still that is 13 players who will feel they have some claims to a spot and could claim that spot with a couple of step up performances in the next 2 NAB games. Competition must be really intense internally at the moment and I think it will all year. A few of these guys will become clear best 22 by year end while some of the others are in career positions where delisting will crop up. Really interesting times.

For what it is worth, after 1 NAB game the other 4-5 spots go to Karnezis, Kennedy, Blair, De Goey and Sincair for me but give it another 2 matches and that list will have changes. A fit list will see great competition for spots this year and I see finals in our future, that's 2015 future .

 

[Buckley is my hero]

For what it is worth, after 1 NAB game the other 4-5 spots go to Karnezis, Kennedy, Blair, De Goey and Sincair for me but give it another 2 matches and that list will have changes. A fit list will see great competition for spots this year and I see finals in our future, that's 2015 future .

Karnezis is a lock in for Rd1 based just on what he did in the first NAB cup round. After Marley, Sinclair is our next best short defender who should play in our best 22 team. Kennedy is a better runner than Adams and a better kick so I have him ahead of Adams at this stage. Will need to see Blair play in the NAB cup to decide if he deserves a spot in our best 22 team. The only question to ask about De Goey is do you wait till mid season to introduce him into the senior side, like we did with Pendlebury, or do you do what we did with Dale Thomas and play him straight away in the senior team. With De Goey, like with Pendlebury, Dale Thomas and Judd, once they play in the senior team, they are never going to play VFL football again.

 

[Gone Critical]

Karnezis is a lock in for Rd1 based just on what he did in the first NAB cup round. After Marley, Sinclair is our next best short defender who should play in our best 22 team. Kennedy is a better runner than Adams and a better kick so I have him ahead of Adams at this stage. Will need to see Blair play in the NAB cup to decide if he deserves a spot in our best 22 team. The only question to ask about De Goey is do you wait till mid season to introduce him into the senior side, like we did with Pendlebury, or do you do what we did with Dale Thomas and play him straight away in the senior team. With De Goey, like with Pendlebury, Dale Thomas and Judd, once they play in the senior team, they are never going to play VFL football again.

Agree with most of that especially De Goey

Karnezis was really impressive in round 1 NAB cup and looks likely. However so did Jye Bolton and Jordan Russell. Its the easiest AFL game for the season. If PK doesn't frank that form in the next 2 matches he isnt best 22 as he has no senior AFL history that makes him locked in. If he doesn't play well in those matches he wont deserve a round 1 spot. For what it is worth I think he will but he is no where near locked in yet

 

[cleomenes]

The selection situation is very fluid at present. We have a core of players that will start if fit because they are clearly our best. Cloke, Reid, Brown, Grundy and or Witts are the tall certainties. Defenders Toovey, Langdon and Williams. Midfielders Swan, Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Greenwood. Forwards only Elliott is certain. Varcoe will get a start, but is not really a certainty on the basis of performance. That leaves 9 spaces that need filling with players that have this preseason to show that they should get the nod. There are probably 15 realistic contenders for the spots, that will narrow themselves down over the next few weeks.
There are a number that I personally can't see missing out, like Goldsack, Adams, De Goey, Frost and Fasolo, but the competition for the bottom half of the team is fierce. Our year will be largely governed by how well these bottom half players actually establish themselves in the team. If they are just alright, we will be just alright. If they are strong, then so will the team be.

 

[Ketchup]

Williams-brown-frost/Keefe (Keefe for me, but club said forward already)
Sinclair-reid-toovey
Sidebottom- -Varcoe
Broomhead- Cloke - Elliot
Fasolo-White - Grundy
Witts- pendles- greenwood

Int: Langdon- goldsack- swan

Sub:

Left the two spots blank for further nab cup games,
One of JT, Adams, or Kennedy will get that spot. Out of those I favor JT, however I was really impressed with adams, and especially Kennedy in nab 1, and I am far far from kennedys biggest fan, I was willing to throw him up for bait to see if we got anything from the adelaide clubs in particular last year, and still would be if it resulted in getting sloane, so I'd like to see a few more games.

Opted for sack instead of karnezis, obviously sack has an impression on the group as a leader, but aside from that he offers perceived pressure, I don't think Karnezis works hard enough, yes he had 5-6 tackles on the weekend but I don't think they're important tackles like goldsack, which may sound dumb, but I'd rather 3-4 run down tackles from goldsack rather than 5-6 from karnezis, the difference in pressure the defenders feel is massive, causing more turnovers, I'd sacrifice and extra goal or 2 for that. I don't think karnezis can provide those type of tackles, with that said though, Goldsack still needs to kick goals, yes he can swing back, but with Langdon and Varcoe both able to go back we have legitimate 8 options at any given time already.

As for the sub, throw a blanket over Blair, de goey, freeman (if he performs better over the next 2 games), kennedy or crisp. All 5 provide something different, and can very much be a needs basis. I'd just have it for best form with no preferred option. Would not have JT or Adams as a sub however, so as it stands I'd only play 1.

Long post I know, but I'd bored at uni atm so just pondering

 

[Et tu Nathan]

Williams-brown-frost/Keefe (Keefe for me, but club said forward already)
Sinclair-reid-toovey
Sidebottom- -Varcoe
Broomhead- Cloke - Elliot
Fasolo-White - Grundy
Witts- pendles- greenwood

Int: Langdon- goldsack- swan

Sub:

Left the two spots blank for further nab cup games,
One of JT, Adams, or Kennedy will get that spot. Out of those I favor JT, however I was really impressed with adams, and especially Kennedy in nab 1, and I am far far from kennedys biggest fan, I was willing to throw him up for bait to see if we got anything from the adelaide clubs in particular last year, and still would be if it resulted in getting sloane, so I'd like to see a few more games.

Opted for sack instead of karnezis, obviously sack has an impression on the group as a leader, but aside from that he offers perceived pressure, I don't think Karnezis works hard enough, yes he had 5-6 tackles on the weekend but I don't think they're important tackles like goldsack, which may sound dumb, but I'd rather 3-4 run down tackles from goldsack rather than 5-6 from karnezis, the difference in pressure the defenders feel is massive, causing more turnovers, I'd sacrifice and extra goal or 2 for that. I don't think karnezis can provide those type of tackles, with that said though, Goldsack still needs to kick goals, yes he can swing back, but with Langdon and Varcoe both able to go back we have legitimate 8 options at any given time already.

As for the sub, throw a blanket over Blair, de goey, freeman (if he performs better over the next 2 games), kennedy or crisp. All 5 provide something different, and can very much be a needs basis. I'd just have it for best form with no preferred option. Would not have JT or Adams as a sub however, so as it stands I'd only play 1.

Long post I know, but I'd bored at uni atm so just pondering

Back to your textbooks or you wont be there next year! not that it will help you in the real world.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Interesting to see that quite a few people have left Adams out. I have him as a walk up start and easily in the top 10 players on our list.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

OK, so this is based purely on the NAB Game because we have sweet FA to go off of.

Cloke, Swan, Prendlebury and Reid come straight in, no questions asked. So then it seems 6 will need to be cut from the Hawthorn game?

I'd be cutting:

- Sinclair
- Freeman
- Ramsay
- Dwyer
- Oxley
- Frost

At the moment. I think the NAB side with those changes would make a pretty balanced but dynamic Round 1 side.

 

[azza77]

Interesting to see that quite a few people have left Adams out. I have him as a walk up start and easily in the top 10 players on our list.

I find it very interesting that a lot of you guys still have Varcoe in your 22 after the recent NAB cup game.

Now by no means do I want to come on here and slag off your players, that's not the point. But for me, he was terrible against the Hawks... Might have just been the one bad game but still, I've never really rated Varcoe all that highly, so inconsistent and that Thursday night he did nothing for me.

I know the Pies just traded for him and he is more of a senior player, but if I was a Collingwood fan I see a whole load of youngsters who have a much, much greater upside than Varcoe and would be wanting to get games into them. That's just my view, for me, I currently have him as the sub in my 22 of Collingwood, but I'd be interested to know what others think on here.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I find it very interesting that a lot of you guys still have Varcoe in your 22 after the recent NAB cup game.

Now by no means do I want to come on here and slag off your players, that's not the point. But for me, he was terrible against the Hawks... Might have just been the one bad game but still, I've never really rated Varcoe all that highly, so inconsistent and that Thursday night he did nothing for me.

I know the Pies just traded for him and he is more of a senior player, but if I was a Collingwood fan I see a whole load of youngsters who have a much, much greater upside than Varcoe and would be wanting to get games into them. That's just my view, for me, I currently have him as the sub in my 22 of Collingwood, but I'd be interested to know what others think on here.

I thought he showed enough in a game where he clearly knew it mattered little.

 

[mike123]

I find it very interesting that a lot of you guys still have Varcoe in your 22 after the recent NAB cup game.

Now by no means I dont want to come on here and slag off your players, that's not the point. But for me, he was terrible against the Hawks... Might have just been the one bad game but still, I've never really rated Varcoe all that highly, so inconsistent and that Thursday night he did nothing for me.

I know the Pies just traded for him and he is more of a senior player, but if I was a Collingwood fan I see a whole load of youngsters who have a much, much greater upside than Varcoe and would be wanting to get games into them. That's just my view, but id be interested to know what others think on here.

Terrible? his kicks hit the target his handballs under pressure where slick. Was a bit sloppy but got better as the game went on.

How was he terrible?

 

[azza77]

I thought he showed enough in a game where he clearly knew it mattered little.

Yeah the game didnt mean a lot, but even against a weaker opposition he failed to produce anywhere near what we all know he is capable of. Are there detailed stats from that game out of interest?

 

[azza77]

Terrible? his kicks hit the target his handballs under pressure where slick. Was a bit sloppy but got better as the game went on.

How was he terrible?

Well maybe terrible is an overstatement, but there were multiple times where he had the ball in close and had time, and instead of using his slick agility and disposal to create something, just proceeded to bomb it long into the 50.

Like I said there were just little things I picked up on while casually watching the game. Im sure most of you die-hard Pies fans who watched the game and your players with a lot more intent would know more than me.

 

[popin]

I find it very interesting that a lot of you guys still have Varcoe in your 22 after the recent NAB cup game.

Now by no means do I want to come on here and slag off your players, that's not the point. But for me, he was terrible against the Hawks... Might have just been the one bad game but still, I've never really rated Varcoe all that highly, so inconsistent and that Thursday night he did nothing for me.

I know the Pies just traded for him and he is more of a senior player, but if I was a Collingwood fan I see a whole load of youngsters who have a much, much greater upside than Varcoe and would be wanting to get games into them. That's just my view, for me, I currently have him as the sub in my 22 of Collingwood, but I'd be interested to know what others think on here.

He can be sub or even emergency when Danger takes his place next year



just a light hearted joke, sorry

 

[azza77]

He can be sub or even emergency when Danger takes his place next year



just a light hearted joke, sorry

Haha ohh don't worry I've pretty much built a secondary immune system for that sort of stuff. Just have to ignore it or it drives you crazy...

 

[mike123]

Well maybe terrible is an overstatement, but there were multiple times where he had the ball in close and had time, and instead of using his slick agility and disposal to create something, just proceeded to bomb it long into the 50.

2:14 was this the moment your talking about, the one that resulted in a goal.

Like I said there were just little things I picked up on while casually watching the game. Im sure most of you die-hard Pies fans who watched the game and your players with a lot more intent would know more than me.

I'm not saying Varcoe was the best, but generally when he had the ball he gave it to someone in black white which is what our teams seems to struggle with a bit.

 

[popin]

Haha ohh don't worry I've pretty much built a secondary immune system for that sort of stuff. Just have to ignore it or it drives you crazy...

Yeh we had it with Cloke and Daisy

 

[Old Spice]

Varcoe is a very smart and clean operator. Don't think that footage indicates otherwise.

 

[MightyPies1]

Williams Brown Langdon
Toovey Reid Sinclair
Sidebottom Pendlebury Adams
Elliott Cloke Kennedy
Fasolo White Karnezis
Grundy Swan Greenwood
De Goey, Frost, Witts, Broomhead

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Williams Brown Langdon
Toovey Reid Varcoe
Sidebottom Pendlebury Crisp
Elliott Cloke Fasolo
Goldsack White Karnezis
Grundy Swan Greenwood
De Goey, Kennedy, Broomhead, Gault