List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

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Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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AsterixTheGaul said:
We are now 48 hours away from Draft Day. Wake up you pancake eating mother fu(kers.

Monday will be a line in the sand for the Pieman. In fact it is probably true for bond as well. Why? I and others have been very vocal about the Pieman’s inability to draft balanced midfielder. The last proven balanced midfielder the Pieman drafted was Luke Shuey. 2008 is 14 years ago – a very long time. There will be no hiding place if the Pieman and his team of pastry makers screw up this draft.

BOND 007 has led his faithful following of “apologists and excuse makers” on why our midfield is bare. We have heard every excuse and reason under the sun yet I have stuck fat that we are just piss poor at drafting top end mids. Expansion clubs, not holding the right draft picks, traded away picks to meet needs, unable to trade up, traded for a tilt at the flag, short term injuries, long term injuries, concussions, HBFers we thought would transition to the midfield, HFFers we thought would transition to the midfield, Utility we thought would transition to the midfield, great athletes we thought would transition to the midfield, …

Fast forward to the close of the 2022 season, and we hold draft pick 2. Our midfield cupboard is bare. Surely in what has been labelled a midfielder draft, we have a chance of landing 2 great midfielders with our first 2 picks (2 and 20) and possibly something with the Port pick at 26. The term spoiled for choice comes to mind. Let it be known that we could have chosen one of the 2 best midfielders before Trade week opened up. Line in sand.

A deal was made to split pick 2 and bank some picks for 2023. It presented us for the 2022 draft with picks 8, 12, 20 and 26. Brilliant. I thought to myself “I think the Pieman might have nailed this – brilliant tactics”. Hence, I very quickly supported the wisdom of this decision as it gave us at least 3 picks out of 4 early picks to draft at least 2 balanced midfielders, a different sort of midfielder and maybe go for a tall or a running half back. In other words, we could restock the engine room that was depleted. So far, I am fully on board. In addition, I believe that picks 8 and 12 landed us in a sweet spot that was pretty even in the draft from 4 to 15 and the very top end had a number of mummy’s boys from Vic Metro that we deemed were not robust to relocate to Perth. I was comfortable thinking that the Pieman had read the draft profile wisely.



I sit here with 48 hours to go in trepidation. Why? It has hopefully only been driven by the normal lazy journalists (majority in Melbourne) that have us linked to only WA talent. I for one believe the club has a great process for retaining decent young guys from interstate. I exclude the Perkins, Bailey Smith, Sheezel, Warldaw, etc as they presented early as flight risks. The Pieman rarely gives away our draft plan and I hope the veil of secrecy is what is causing my anxiety.



What is my nightmare?

8 - Ginbey. A HBF who put on bulk early and started to monster his cohort in 2022. Whilst proven in WAFL league, which I value highly, it was as a HBF and not as a midfielder. If I believe Royal Eagle that he will make it (I usually rate RE’s input provided they do not come from East Perth). He at best is an inside mid and they rarely warrant a single digit pick. He presents as someone who reads the play well with the ball in front of him but with average football IQ at the coal face of stoppages. Can he learn it? Hopefully yes. When there are many balanced proven mids available at 8, why risk the pick. I am yet to see him dominate contested football as a midfielder. A riskier pick and happy to draft him at 12 provided we have a balanced mid at 8.

12 - Allan. As a Claremont supporter, I have been surprised at how Ed has rocketed up the boards. He really did have a great finish to the year in colts. Super combine results as well. Allan with 20 or 26 would be ideal as there is some speculation. If he was that athletically gifted, why has it not shown up before now. As a utility, he has been able to play a number of outside and running flanker roles but not yet shown to me that he can play the inside or balanced midfielder. It feels like 10 places too early which is a reach. I am yet to see him dominate contested football as a midfielder. A riskier pick and happy to draft him but not at 12 (some softening possible if we nail 8).

20 – Jones. Great skill set but undersized. He will at best play the Kelly outside leaning midfielder and more likely a wing or half forward. There are question marks as to whether he will be another Black Duck recruit that cannot get the bulk and size to cope against hardened men. To be fair to Jones, at junior football he has had some dominant games. Do I believe he will ever be able to dominate contested football as a midfielder? No.

Not sure about Busslinger – put simply he is not a position of need. If we bag Mackenzie say at 8 and plan at 20 a good balanced mids, no drama taking him at 12. Unless we nail the first pick, then it is a pass for me. Great talent and worthwhile drafting but it comes with provisos and I question the Pieman’s ability to resist himself. Ginbey and Busslinger at 8 and 12 is a fail for me. We had the chance to draft 2 balanced top end mids and with this pairing, will regret it in years to come.



So where does that leave me?

My draft assumptions are the top half dozen picks are starting to settle and at 7 it starts to open up.

With the likelihood of Phillipou, Tsatas and Humphrey off the board before our pick, we will likely have no less that 3 out of 4 balanced midfielders to choose from at pick 8. Mackenzie, Clark, Hollands and Hewett. I would take them in that order at 8. Run the risk that Ginbey might be gone at 12 but if he is, then we will likely get another of Mackenzie, Clark, Hollands and Hewett at 12. If we had Mackenzie at 8, I would also be less concerned about taking Allan at 12. Not first choice but OK.

So we should finish day 1 of the draft with 2 of Mackenzie, Clark, Hollands, Hewett and Ginbey (possibly also Allan buy not paired with Ginbey please).

I do like the linking of Jefferson with us. I do not want him but he is a very typical Pieman pick. I also think he is a Melbourne pick (and need). I would love to extract some value out of Melbourne and swap picks 12 and 13 assuming they want Jefferson. I would also consider trading with Sydney (assuming they want Jefferson) and trading 12 and 26 for 14 and 17 (again provided we have Mackenzie or Clark in the bag).



My dream draft.

8 – Mackenzie (higher as he has more pace) or in his absence Clark. I think at least one of them will be there at 8

12 – If one of the above is also there, then a no brainer. If not, go Hollands or Hewett and if all those gone then Ginbey. If all these gone, then I would consider Busslinger or Allan but be sure to be more focussed with the next 2 picks. I would also be listening more attentively to an offer from Melbourne or Sydney to slide back 1 to 2 spots.

20 – Allan, Burgiel or Hotton. Burgiel adds that speed and Hotton is a goal kicker.

26 – Burgiel may still be there at 26 otherwise Szybkowski as more defensive mid or Kaleb Smith as a running half back.


Sorry for the length, with 4 early picks I felt the need to elaborate. Well done if you read to the end
Click to expand...
Really good post

I’ve long defended our recruiters for not nailing a genuine midfielder, predominately due to a lack of high end picks over the last decade

As you’ve said, we had that pick available but split it in a decision I think was warranted and potentially a master stroke. It leaves no excuses now though. We have holes in our list all over the ground but none moreso than the midfield that needs to be addressed in a draft where only 2 of the top 15 (Busslinger and Jefferson are KPPs)

Edit : 3 - I ignored/forgot about Cadman

We simply have to recruit at least one of Mackenzie, Clark or Hewett, preferably 2. Do that and then any one of Hollands, Allan, Ginbey, Humphrey, Tsatas, Busslinger or Jefferson is fine.

We then have options at our next two picks to balance whoever we’ve taken

To me Hewett at 13 is a slam dunk and I’d only be happy to risk him sliding to our third pick if we’ve already taken Clark or Mackenzie

I’m buoyed by last years draft of Chesser, Hough and Bazzo plus Culley mid year that we’re on the right track. But nervous we move away from a good plan like we did in 2017
 
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My latest prediction:

1. GWS - Cadman
2. NM - Wardlaw
3. BL - Ashcroft
4. NM - Sheezel
5. ESS - Phillipou
6. GC - Ginbey
7. HAW - Mackenzie
8. GEEL - Humphrey
9. WC - Clark
10. STK - Tsatas
11. CARL - Hollands
12. WB - Busslinger
13. WCE - Allan

Top 4 (exact order TBD) appear to be locked in. Bombers tossing up between Tsatas and Phillipou but I don't think they'll be able to resist the Poutential (sorry). I expect GC feel Ginbey is ideal for them as he will transition beautifully from Dunsborough to the Gold Coast. Hawks and Mackenzie just feels apt, although Tsatas is certainly a strong possibility here. Cats go Humphrey as best available and someone who can make an immediate impact, leaving Clark and Tsatas as great options for us. We were linked to Clark at pick #2 so I can see us snapping him up here if available. Saints would be stoked with Tsatas almost sliding out of the top 10 entirely. Hollands to Carlton a strong possibility, which would leave one of Busslinger or Allan available to us, with Jefferson and Hewitt options too.
I agree with many others that the Ginbey + Allan combo is a tad concerning... Although I'd be all for Clark + Allan as it guarantees us a reliable, well rounded inside option in Clark to offset the high risk, high reward option in Allan. Having said that, I've got a strange feeling Geelong nab Allan early. They can certainly afford to take the risk.
Would also love to see us milk a future selection from the Dees if they really want to lock in Jefferson at their selection!
From here, we can cross our fingers that Hewitt slides, although the likes of George, Barnett and Hotton would all be great gets at our third selection.
Monday can't come around quick enough!!
 
CountryLad said:
All the talk of Jefferson. If we were into him I wonder if a trade with the swans is more likely.

Pick 12 & Ports Future 2nd ?

Get 14 & 17

That way Jefferson and maybe Hewitt, Barnett, Allan could all be on the board. Seems a sweet spot for where we are looking.

Would love

9 McKenzie
14 Jefferson
17 Hewitt
20 Barnett
26 Hotton/Burgiel/Ryan

Would be a good hand I reckon.
Click to expand...

Think this is the best possible scenario
I would be absolutely keen for this.

2x good rated mids
2x hood rated talls
And 1x mid /forward

Would really rejuvenate the list with youth.

Throw in last years draft hand and we’re are looking good for youth.
If we have a stinker of a year next year and pick up Harley Reid there’s our super star mid.

Also getting ready for the melt of a draft hand that is Ginbey and Allen at our first two picks.
 

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Monocle said:
Caleb Daniels is the AFL outlier size wise, but what he also has is strength ( he is more stocky in build and his low centre of gravity gives him strength through the hips ) , his tackling and ability to break tackles belies his stature, I am yet to see Jones display anything similar.
Click to expand...

Daniel also plays a very random role where he scoots around half back getting easy outside ball. Very different to playing up the ground and when a play is actually playing on you.

We can’t look at Daniel as a way of thinking Jones will work. I think a closer comparison is Shai Bolton who is about the same height but now 10kgs or so heavier. Even then Bolten is a very different player and his leap his huge so makes up for his lack of height there.

I’d happily take Jones after say 40 but he’s too risky for us to use with our first 4 picks. History says these types just don’t work. It’s not just his height, it’s his frame. He just looks like he will always be tiny.
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
My dream draft.

8 – Mackenzie (higher as he has more pace) or in his absence Clark. I think at least one of them will be there at 8

12 – If one of the above is also there, then a no brainer. If not, go Hollands or Hewett and if all those gone then Ginbey. If all these gone, then I would consider Busslinger or Allan but be sure to be more focussed with the next 2 picks. I would also be listening more attentively to an offer from Melbourne or Sydney to slide back 1 to 2 spots.
Click to expand...
dr-horrible-sing-along-blog.gif
 
Fingers crossed the Jefferson talk is just us trying to bait Melbourne and Sydney into a trade. A downgrade on 12 and an upgrade on 20 would have the potential to still land the same target we had at 12 but also nab Hewett for basically nothing.

That being said, it’s not usually the way we operate. We’re normally pretty straight shooters and pick whoever we want, not getting involved in any mind games. So if there’s plenty of smoke around then I’m expecting him to be in very strong consideration at 12
 
Monocle said:
I am far from convinced that Jones ( 175 cm 63 kg ) will make it, if his size doesn't worry you.... it should.
He is s very speculative pick and I would only be "semi OK ish" with taking him at 26... IF.... we had already nailed the previous three selections.
Just cant see the featherweight making it as a midfielder ... quick yes he is..... but the kids just so light, he maybe has some small forward application.

However with Dewar ( 185 cm 70 kg ) as a likely NGA pick up I see Jones as a bit of duplication for a small forward role as I cant see him playing as a mid at that weight. Dewar is a much more productive small forward.

Also Baker ( 185 cm 72 kg ) another NGA pick up as an outside mid.

Would love Jones to prove me wrong, BUT I just don't think we are at that point in our rebuild that we can afford to blow a decent pick on such a speculative player.
Click to expand...
Boomer Harvey was pretty much the same size when drafted. In any era, he'd be a star. An outlier on know but I think there are some similarities stylistically.
 
Ginbey has the same draft profile as will brodie

Hopefully GC pick him up
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
Concerned that we lose flexibility in the with list spots. I would leave it as 4 certain picks and a 5th if we see something late.

We could still have
9 Mackenzie / Clark / Hollands
15 Jefferson
18 Hewett / Hotton
23 Hotton / Burgeil
Click to expand...

Flexibility with list spots? I think it comes down to what opportunity presents to trade in another pick to land a bargain. No matter if its the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round.

I wouldnt be surprised if we used a F3rd to land a pick in the late 30's or 40's some how to land maybe Gilbey or Broadbent. Maybe even D'Aloia , Szybkowski or J Or K Ryan depending on what we picked up earlier.

Who is willing to trade what is the key.
 

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ArdentEagle said:
Boomer Harvey was pretty much the same size when drafted. In any era, he'd be a star. An outlier on know but I think there are some similarities stylistically.
Click to expand...

Except Harvey was already a star in the TAC Cup comp for the Northern Knights.
You are drawing a VERY long bow comparing him with Harvey.

If you support drafting him, fine but then don’t bitch if he doesn’t work out.
We would need to have completely nailed the first three picks for me to be comfortable taking a speculative punt on him, because a top 30 pick, in a rebuild phase, is one that I would rather not waste.
There are some less sexy picks in that range that don’t have the Jones wow factor about them, but IMO bring more bankable AFL basic traits with their game.

For what it’s worth, I don’t see that much difference between him and Dewar, who we can pick up with a much cheaper draft capital spend. Sure Jones is quicker than him, however Dewar has him covered as far as hitting the score board goes and both are equal IMO in their ability to take a good overhead mark.
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
(I’m sticking this post for now because it’s the best explanation of this draft for us that I’ve read anywhere and everyone should read it at least once - Keys)
Click to expand...
Good post, I agree with your worst knightmare. It is my biggest worry too. One of Ginbey /Allan I can live with but not both. Unless that is, we get Allan at 21.
We need a a low risk option too. One of Mackenzie, Clark, Tsatas, at 9 assuming Poo is gone. Then I don’t care as much if we take a Ginbey/Allan at 13. Even Buss/Jefferson as long as we then draft another mid or mid/fwd at 20.
 
Nuffington Post said:
Shame about Allan. He also mentions Mackenzie, Clark and Phillipou are in the mix for our first pick


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Yeah but to be fair he does that with every selection, he says like 3-4 guys that are in the same range will be in the mix lol.

I really don’t see Hewett getting through to our 2nd unfortunately but if he does, that’ll make whatever we do at 8 and 12 more tolerable.
 
TerryFilk said:
Twomeys final phantom draft

Has us ending with Ginbey, Allan and Hewett who makes it to our 2nd (I don’t think that’ll happen personally)

We also pass on Phillipou to take Ginbey 🤢

Click to expand...

Swap Ginbey for Phillipou and Allan for Jefferson and that would be a hell of a draft.
 
TerryFilk said:
Twomeys final phantom draft

Has us ending with Ginbey, Allan and Hewett who makes it to our 2nd (I don’t think that’ll happen personally)

We also pass on Phillipou to take Ginbey 🤢

Click to expand...

So to end up with 2 balanced mids (Hewett and Burgiel), a hbf who we think will make it as an inside mid (Ginbey) and a athletic outside mid/Utility (Allan) meets my brief.

It is also typical Pieman reversing my preferred priority.

What makes this acceptable are the two later picks. As I wrote in my post Keys keys stole from the thread, I am happy with Ginbey and Allan but as a pairing with our top 2 picks I don’t like them.

Why - high risk we don’t get Hewett and Burgiel at those picks and then we have missed an opportunity.

If this scenario plays out, GWS will be getting offers overnight with Clarke, Hayes and Hewett on the table for day 2
 
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