List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Dark Sharks]

The club does a full review every two years and did a very exhaustive one last year as well. Issues have been identified, people have been moved on, we have seen the semblance of a new game plan coming through and we are giving young talent an opportunity.

Just quietly, who was moved on?

Short of the one S&C rando who took a role elsewhere... there was the same stock standard list turnover required by all AFL clubs each year.

Only remote part of "savage" or "extensive" personnel change i can recall was Redden mercifully putting his hand up and retiring himself.

Was there other changes I'm not aware of?

 

[bzparkes]

Just quietly, who was moved on?

Short of the one S&C rando who took a role elsewhere... there was the same stock standard list turnover required by all AFL clubs each year.

Only remote part of "savage" or "extensive" personnel change i can recall was Redden mercifully putting his hand up and retiring himself.

Was there other changes I'm not aware of?

If the program's the problem, you move on the person who implemented it, not just the plebs who do what they're told.

Not saying you were, but a lot of people wanted the entire department sacked. That's just proving you have a room-temperature IQ if you have that stance.

 

[Chump Change]

Just quietly, who was moved on?

Short of the one S&C rando who took a role elsewhere... there was the same stock standard list turnover required by all AFL clubs each year.

Only remote part of "savage" or "extensive" personnel change i can recall was Redden mercifully putting his hand up and retiring himself.

Was there other changes I'm not aware of?

Someone posted some comments about Simmo's interview a few weeks back. I'm paraphrasing here and might be slightly inaccurate but I think he said stuff like,

"we thought we were fit but we realised later we weren't"
"once i won the flag I thought i have to get involved and have an opinion about everything, but I've since realised I just need to coach".


The fitness issue was a major issue. I still can't fathom how that happens in any AFL club let alone the biggest one in the country. So at least he knows, but yeah, I want to know what has changed there. Clearly we are fit this year.

And as for personnel - the issue was the CITB buy back scheme. Not so much playing the kids (because they were all shit), but letting senior players know that if they don't perform to expect levels, they don't play. I wonder if Simmo has changed his stance on this?

 

[Dark Sharks]

If the program's the problem, you move on the person who implemented it, not just the plebs who do what they're told.

Not saying you were, but a lot of people wanted the entire department sacked. That's just proving you have a room-temperature IQ if you have that stance.

I agree. Wouldn't that be Warren Koefed then?

My question was genuine. Phil mentioned people departing the club, issues identified etc etc. I'm genuinely curious if anyone else actually left other than who i mentioned?

 

[Chump Change]

If the program's the problem, you move on the person who implemented it, not just the plebs who do what they're told.

Not saying you were, but a lot of people wanted the entire department sacked. That's just proving you have a room-temperature IQ if you have that stance.

This is what I struggle to get my head around:

The head S&C banana would be very experienced and competent. I can't see him/her allowing those skinfolds. Which means I think there was something stopping him getting what he wanted (someone over ruling him by allowing players to skip sessions, make excuses etc).

So potentially that barrier has been identified and removed (potentially a process being changed to remove someone's influence rather than removing that someone from the club entirely).

 

[bzparkes]

I agree. Wouldn't that be Warren Koefed then?

My question was genuine. Phil mentioned people departing the club, issues identified etc etc. I'm genuinely curious if anyone else actually left other than who i mentioned?

Medical team apparently.

Koefed's the high performance manager, not the S&C coach.

If he keeps appointing the wrong people, then he's a goner. One wrong appointment doesn't justify a sacking though.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

One thing I think about, is if I was watching us play this year and last year to come about 10th? I'd be watching but deep down I'd know that the team is just treading water until the inevitable drop. it's not a good feeling watching your team mid table knowing that it's not going to end up in a flag. That would be like being a Freo supporter. Ewww.

Could be worse, you could have the reigning Brownlow medallist, two Coleman medallists, an elite number 1 pick KPD and midfielder and have topped up your team with expensive free agents and still be completely irrelevant.

 

[Keys]

Someone posted some comments about Simmo's interview a few weeks back. I'm paraphrasing here and might be slightly inaccurate but I think he said stuff like,

"we thought we were fit but we realised later we weren't"

"once i won the flag I thought i have to get involved and have an opinion about everything, but I've since realised I just need to coach".

The bit about Simmo thinking we were fit I don’t remember seeing so that’s probably me just missing it

The other part I recall from him being on AFL 360 and was asked about a rule change or something. He replied that after the flag he thought he was Vince Lombardi and had an opinion on everything but nobody listened to him so he’s worked out that his job is to coach and the other stuff he steers clear of. Along those lines anyway but it wasn’t in relation to fitness issues

 

[DanWCE]

Just quietly, who was moved on?

Short of the one S&C rando who took a role elsewhere... there was the same stock standard list turnover required by all AFL clubs each year.

Only remote part of "savage" or "extensive" personnel change i can recall was Redden mercifully putting his hand up and retiring himself.

Was there other changes I'm not aware of?

Crazy Vozzo

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I wouldn't offer a 6/7 year deal to anyone.

Absurd. I dont care if you’re the godson of Judd and Dustin. When do these long ass contracts EVER work out for a club?

Poor/lazy list management.

Buddy franklin ?

Saw out a 9 year contract and is still playing. Sure he has had his injury years but Sydney got the greatest goal kicker of this generation for zero draft picks .

Played 162 games for the swans and 471 goals

 

[eagles rule]

Walsh was a clear number 1, but this Reid guy is considered next level.

Consider the best players in the game: Cripps, Oliver, Daicos, Petracca, Bont, Uniacke, Brayshaw, Cameron.

All bar Cameron are mids.

What are the skills sets that differentiate them from lesser players? Decision making, disposal accuracy, ability to win the hard ball.

Essentially, they're elite at two of those attributes and very good at the other. They all have some sort of top end mix of those 3 things. Typically it's hard to have all 3 because the guys who are elite at winning the hard ball have less time to make decisions and make effective disposal because they are under duress more often.

So who is at the top of the apex? Could be any player with that mix. This season it's Daicos, he's more decision and disposal over hard ball. But in general, its the guys who are more hard ball that are more often at the top of the tree. Why? Because when the crunch moments come they impose themselves on games and moments of games with their physicality. ** how to say bull without saying bull

What Harley Reid shows he is a very good chance of becoming - that Cripps, Dusty, Oliver type who is a top 5 player in the AFL. At under 17 he has something extra that Sam Walsh didn't have. And I rate Walsh highly.

The team who has #1 pick shouldn't even consider for a millisecond to trade that pick.

agree I would hate to see us get too cute for a handful of speculative players..

 

[eagles rule]

We've brought in 11 guys through the ND (including Culley) in the last two years. + Dewar and Baker.
We have 5 top 50 picks this year again.

That's a decent haul of youth (16 of them) with good picks, all who need to be given game time in the seniors to develop.

Not sure its accurate saying those who want to keep the #1 pick are wanting to change the list profile with just one player.

That`s right we still have the 2 2nd rd picks and 3 3rd rd picks to assemble a decent supporting cast ..

 

[Dark Sharks]

Buddy franklin ?

Saw out a 9 year contract and is still playing. Sure he has had his injury years but Sydney got the greatest goal kicker of this generation for zero draft picks .

Played 162 games for the swans and 471 goals

He's still crippled them financially for a large portion of that contract and struggled to get on the park for certain periods.

Due to him eating up so much cash and sitting there injured for so long (Hai Nicnat) I'd speculate that prevented them from keeping certain players or landing others due to the obvious financial squeeze.

What's it got them? Zero flags, 1 grand final pantsing. Didn't cost them any picks but it was a biiig decision, with nothing concrete to say it was really justified in retrospect.

No doubt when he hangs the boots up, there will be numerous articles breaking it all down for us.

 

[kane249]

He's still crippled them financially for a large portion of that contract and struggled to get on the park for certain periods.

Due to him eating up so much cash and sitting there injured for so long (Hai Nicnat) I'd speculate that prevented them from keeping certain players or landing others due to the obvious financial squeeze.

What's it got them? Zero flags, 1 grand final pantsing. Didn't cost them any picks but it was a biiig decision, with nothing concrete to say it was really justified in retrospect.

No doubt when he hangs the boots up, there will be numerous articles breaking it all down for us.

They landed Kurt Tippet on big money and made a play for Paddy Ryder as well.

But they also have had more cap space to play with than the rest.

Hannebery was probably the only real big name they lost and he was broken down when he left.

 

[DanWCE]

He's still crippled them financially for a large portion of that contract and struggled to get on the park for certain periods.

Due to him eating up so much cash and sitting there injured for so long (Hai Nicnat) I'd speculate that prevented them from keeping certain players or landing others due to the obvious financial squeeze.

What's it got them? Zero flags, 1 grand final pantsing. Didn't cost them any picks but it was a biiig decision, with nothing concrete to say it was really justified in retrospect.

No doubt when he hangs the boots up, there will be numerous articles breaking it all down for us.

Good marketing tool. Bit like Nic for us. All square on the flags won thanks to player

 

[Rowan18]

They landed Kurt Tippet on big money and made a play for Paddy Ryder as well.

But they also have had more cap space to play with than the rest.

Hannebery was probably the only real big name they lost and he was broken down when he left.

They lost a stack of fringe players, COLA and copped a trade ban. Jetta probably wouldn't have left, neither would Malceski. I'm sure there were others too.

 

[WCErevival]

They lost a stack of fringe players, COLA and copped a trade ban. Jetta probably wouldn't have left, neither would Malceski. I'm sure there were others too.

Mumford went due to the money squeeze.

Cant remember Tom Mitchells exact situation but money could have been the reason there.

 

[kane249]

They lost a stack of fringe players, COLA and copped a trade ban. Jetta probably wouldn't have left, neither would Malceski. I'm sure there were others too.

Debatable on Jetta, he wanted to come home and they offered Sinclair a good deal to go there so it was a straight swap

 

[dinnaz]

Guys guys guys please

 

[dinnaz]

Big call:
Harley Reid won't go at #1. Talk of a "generational" player always has a bit of a media hype about it, but simply put he hasn't performed to that standard.
So far this year he hasn't shown much improvement compared with last year & could be an early bloomer uh oh
Right now he has been about as good as Bailey Humphrey was last year (went at #6)

If someone offered me 3 first round picks for #1 or #2, then at this point I would grab it and run. I wouldn't mind banking the odd future pick as well if possible.

• GWS #3 + #7
• North #4 + #12
  
• GC #5 + F1(#10-#13)
• Melb #6 + #16 + #25

 

[Obeanie1]

Even if you don’t like Sumich, even if you don’t agree with his opinions and think he is going too far and the tone is too aggressive etc, the fact that this stuff is being printed in small quantities now is a good thing because it opens up the debate and puts pressure on the people in charge at the club to be accountable for the results. It would not be a good thing if Nisbett and co were allowed to continue to just pull the shutters down and hide and rely on the threat of cutting off access to the club to ensure there is no criticism of them in the local media. Even if you don’t think Sumich’s views are fair and measured a modicum of pressure on the people in charge is a good thing.

Lol. And you think people arent under pressure at the club to perform?

They think everything is fine and nothing to see or worry about.

We are rebuilding. We have decided to spend a couple of years at the bottom to restock the list with some quality kids before Tasmania gut the draft. Several other teams are doing the same.

We have been up for a long time with that 2018 premiership list, time to refresh.

Not difficult to understand. Just difficult for unreasonable supporters and jilted ex coaches to accept the reality of the AFL list cycle and take easy pot shots.

 

[CountryLad]

Big call:
Harley Reid won't go at #1. Talk of a "generational" player always has a bit of a media hype about it, but simply put he hasn't performed to that standard.
So far this year he hasn't shown much improvement compared with last year & could be an early bloomer uh oh
Right now he has been about as good as Bailey Humphrey was last year (went at #6)

If someone offered me 3 first round picks for #1 or #2, then at this point I would grab it and run. I wouldn't mind banking the odd future pick as well if possible.

• GWS #3 + #7
• North #4 + #12
• GC #5 + F1(#10-#13)
• Melb #6 + #16 + #25

What a load of garbage that he hasn’t performed to that standard. Been best on in all of his matches bar one.

Bailey Humphrey isn’t even in the same room.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Big call:
Harley Reid won't go at #1. Talk of a "generational" player always has a bit of a media hype about it, but simply put he hasn't performed to that standard.
So far this year he hasn't shown much improvement compared with last year & could be an early bloomer uh oh
Right now he has been about as good as Bailey Humphrey was last year (went at #6)

If someone offered me 3 first round picks for #1 or #2, then at this point I would grab it and run. I wouldn't mind banking the odd future pick as well if possible.

• GWS #3 + #7
• North #4 + #12
• GC #5 + F1(#10-#13)
• Melb #6 + #16 + #25

Is this your opinion or from a journo etc?

As that is utter rubbish, in the academy game he was miles ahead of the rest of the u18. He was also at Bombers in pre season and in practice matches was in the best few players on the ground. For Pioneers he usually gets thrown around from position to position, which may impact his stats but his impact is always immense.

 

[RanaNaved]

Not sure why some of you are getting so upset about someone wary of the hype around Reid.

 

[CountryLad]

Is this your opinion or from a journo etc?

As that is utter rubbish, in the academy game he was miles ahead of the rest of the u18. He was also at Bombers in pre season and in practice matches was in the best few players on the ground. For Pioneers he usually gets thrown around from position to position, which may impact his stats but his impact is always immense.

If he not elite at something then that’s probably his spread from the contest he doesn’t rack up easy ball in space.

I think that’s an area when he gets to an AFL club he will be able to work on. I wonder if his tank isn’t that great at this stage and after a few AFL pre seasons will be able to run the lines better. Unfortunately I only get to see his games on a device so don’t get to see his work rate when off camera.