List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Farang83150]

My concern is that the average height of the gun midfielders is increasing each year. in 5 years time imagine we'll see a lot of gun mids at 190cm+ (or thereabouts) in the league. Wardlaw is 182cm. Not saying he can't make it and can't be a gun. It's just going to get harder for small midfielders.

Was just going through twomeys phantom and was thinking the exact same, having said that I'm leaning more towards Sheezel (184cm 77kg to Wardlaw 182cm 82kg), just always think Pendles when I read his write-up

 

[ziad]

Waterman is the type of guy who will absolutely thrive if he's here for our next flag push. In a gun team, he will be an aerobic third tall that gets a spud defender on him. He can then use his running to link play - getting lots of uncontested possessions in space/kicking goals out the back. The team will make him look a lot better than he is (eg Josh Jenkins).

I'd like to keep him around, but if he goes it's no big loss.

you are joking

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

What’s a great Aunt ?

An aunt who will buy your booze when under age, will pick you when plastered up and cover for you when your parents call saying you are asleep, has the odd durry and happy to share one with you, etc .

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Those peanuts on the bulldogs board still think they’ve got a shot at Barrass

Due to salary cap issues

FMD the guy’s signed on until 2027, by the end of next season Mcgovern will be off the books and by the end of the following year it’ll be a mission for us to just reach the minimum salary cap requirement looking at our list.

The Dogs are in dire need of a good key back. Their interest is based more on wishful thinking rather than any actual basis.

They should consider moving Naughton back, JHU, Bruce and Darcy as the key forwards next year.

 

[Tugga27]

Had a great run of form just after the bye. Has dropped off of late, possibly because he’s been carrying an injury.

I don't think he's a spud like others on here.
Having said that, I'm still not sure he'll make it either.

Next year will be boom or bust for him I think.

 

[Farang83150]

The Dogs are in dire need of a good key back. Their interest is based more on wishful thinking rather than any actual basis.

They should consider moving Naughton back, JHU, Bruce and Darcy as the key forwards next year.

And Lobb!

 

[Happy Mastenator]

And Lobb!

Even better, play Lobb, JHU, Bruce forward, Darcy and Naughton back.

 

[Farang83150]

Even better, play Lobb, JHU, Bruce forward, Darcy and Naughton back.

Is Bruce cooked or was he out injured for a while?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Is Bruce cooked or was he out injured for a while?

Did an ACL at the end of last year.

 

[Keys]

There are two aspects to whether or not one or all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden should retire.

Firstly, if they continue they take up a list spot that would otherwise be filled by a fringe/developing player or late draft or rookie pick. This is what it means :

We have 28 players with a contract for 2023 or beyond. One of those (Culley) is on the rookie list so there’s 27 main list players.

Leaves 11 main list and 3 rookie list spots available to be filled through a combination of trades, draft and re-signings.

I’d be wanting to use a minimum of 4 draft picks - currently 2,20,26,38. With our next pick not until 74 I think we’d be better going to the rookie draft/SSP to pick at least 2 players on 1 year contracts.

That would leave 7 main list and 1 rookie spot open for the current 15 players without a contract to be given a new contract

Rioli, Naitanui and Jones should be renewed. I don’t think that’s controversial given Naitanui is required due to the dearth of AFL ready ruck options we have. Jones will need to be upgraded to the main list since he’s been on the rookie list for the maximum allowable 3 years

So four green bottles sitting on the wall (which can be increased to 5 by placing Langdon on the rookie list) with 12 players at the bar

So this is where the crunch comes. If all 3 veterans sign on, there’s only 2 spots left

Forward/rucks - Williams, Dixon
Backs - Witherden, Nelson
Mids - West, Trew, Joyce, Winder, Naish

Ruck stocks dictate one of Williams or Dixon need to be kept
Hurn continuing is a certain death warrant for Witherden and Nelson
Naish and Joyce are out meaning only one of West, Trew or Winder gets to stay.

Shuey staying on ends the career of one of those three. That’s the reality and people can make their own minds if that’s reasonable

Obviously this changes if one (or more) players ask to be traded out

The second part of the veterans playing on is the games they play in 2023 which will decrease the opportunity for younger players to get exposure at AFL level

Hurn playing most likely takes potential games away from the likes of HEdwards, Bazzo and Foley. In a functional WAFL side HEdwards and Bazzo can still get good experience leading the backline whilst providing injury cover for the seniors. Foley I’m not too fussed about

Of the usual six midfield positions, Kelly, Sheed and probably Gaff take 3. Leaves 3 spots for Shuey, O’Neill, Chesser, Hough, Culley, Redden, LEdwards, Pick 2, Clark and SPS to fight over. That’s 10 players without considering Yeo who I’m playing off half back. So if Shuey plays say 16 games, that’s 16 games of development we’re taking away from those younger players

I’ve flip flopped on the veterans continuing and more recently have been ok with them all going on

Redden I’m happy with because he’s on a low salary from what we know and has expressed an acceptance his time in the seniors might be limited. On that basis he’s a good low cost option to lead the WAFL midfield whilst providing an experienced back up if and when required

Hurn, based on this years form I’m ok with because I think Bazzo as a KPD can still learn what he needs to at WAFL level

Shuey is far harder to justify. We need to be accelerating the development of our young mids and, since I think West is the most likely to get a new contract of the 3 I mentioned, it means Winder or Trew miss out. That’d be a real shame if Shuey’s body fails him

If we’re genuine about a rebuild it’s time for Shuey to call time

 

[Neale4brownlow]

1 more game to go

Delist
Dixon JK Trew Langdon
Naish Shep West
Joyce Nelson
Strnadica Witherden

Main List
Jones

Trade
Gov
Gaff
Petrol

Last chance Saloon
Winder
Rotham
Foley
Clark
LEdwards
SPS
Waterman

Rnd 1 2023
Cole Hedwards Duggan
Jones Barrass Yeo

Hough Kelly Sheed

Cripps Allen Rioli
Ryan Darling Shuey

Nic Nat, Culley, O'Neill

Int: BWilliams, Pick 2, Bazzo, Chesser

Emg: Hurn, Redden, Waterman, LEdwards

Not a heck of a lot to get excited about for 2023 looking at that possible starting lineup.

Heres to hoping Pick 2 is the next Chris Judd...

 

[Dark Sharks]

It's really not that hard to answer the question of "Well who is there waiting for Hurn huh??? Who takes over from Shuey???"


Really.


Cole is back. He can take over from Hurn.
Yeo, when he returns can go back into defense, HE can take over from Hurn. (Free's up a midfield rotation for Clark, Chesser, Culley)
Bazzo can keep playing in defense and not be punted out as soon as McGovern is back, there's another option.
Hough, can go back into the back flank again. Another Option.


Is that enough? We don't instantly just have this upgraded player ready to go that is better than Hurn, struth. It's not what it's about. It's about changing the structure of the team in a way which allows us to keep playing more youth in the side at the expense of these elder statesman. Whether that's Hough and Bazzo, or another young player getting involved in the midfield more. Which is desperately needed.



Would you like me to do Shuey now?

Clark can take over the mid rotation
Culley can take over the mid rotation.
Chesser can take over the mid rotation.
New mid draftee can take over the mid rotation.



It's not as difficult as some are making it out to be. We are legit almost dead last in the competition with both these guys playing. How worse can things get?

 

[Keys]

It's really not that hard to answer the question of "Well who is there waiting for Hurn huh??? Who takes over from Shuey???"


Really.


Cole is back. He can take over from Hurn.
Yeo, when he returns can go back into defense, HE can take over from Hurn. (Free's up a midfield rotation for Clark, Chesser, Culley)
Bazzo can keep playing in defense and not be punted out as soon as McGovern is back, there's another option.
Hough, can go back into the back flank again. Another Option.


Is that enough? We don't instantly just have this upgraded player ready to go that is better than Hurn, struth. It's not what it's about. It's about changing the structure of the team in a way which allows us to keep playing more youth in the side at the expense of these elder statesman. Whether that's Hough and Bazzo, or another young player getting involved in the midfield more. Which is desperately needed.



Would you like me to do Shuey now?

Clark can take over the mid rotation
Culley can take over the mid rotation.
Chesser can take over the mid rotation.
New mid draftee can take over the mid rotation.



It's not as difficult as some are making it out to be. We are legit almost dead last in the competition with both these guys playing. How worse can things get?

It’s difficult because I’m a nostalgic kent and it’d be sad to see the careers of those two absolute warriors end

So I keep fighting reality

 

[swingdog]

It's really not that hard to answer the question of "Well who is there waiting for Hurn huh??? Who takes over from Shuey???"


Really.


Cole is back. He can take over from Hurn.
Yeo, when he returns can go back into defense, HE can take over from Hurn. (Free's up a midfield rotation for Clark, Chesser, Culley)
Bazzo can keep playing in defense and not be punted out as soon as McGovern is back, there's another option.
Hough, can go back into the back flank again. Another Option.


Is that enough? We don't instantly just have this upgraded player ready to go that is better than Hurn, struth. It's not what it's about. It's about changing the structure of the team in a way which allows us to keep playing more youth in the side at the expense of these elder statesman. Whether that's Hough and Bazzo, or another young player getting involved in the midfield more. Which is desperately needed.



Would you like me to do Shuey now?

Clark can take over the mid rotation
Culley can take over the mid rotation.
Chesser can take over the mid rotation.
New mid draftee can take over the mid rotation.



It's not as difficult as some are making it out to be. We are legit almost dead last in the competition with both these guys playing. How worse can things get?

I think the temptation is - and this is probably what Simpson is thinking - to get your best team out on the field at all times. Therefore you want Shuey and Hurn because they are better than their potential replacements.

What we should be thinking is who have we drafted to be there in 5 years time when we are in finals? It's about creating a new team, not continuing with what got us to where we are.

 

[Hook461123]

It's really not that hard to answer the question of "Well who is there waiting for Hurn huh??? Who takes over from Shuey???"


Really.


Cole is back. He can take over from Hurn.
Yeo, when he returns can go back into defense, HE can take over from Hurn. (Free's up a midfield rotation for Clark, Chesser, Culley)
Bazzo can keep playing in defense and not be punted out as soon as McGovern is back, there's another option.
Hough, can go back into the back flank again. Another Option.


Is that enough? We don't instantly just have this upgraded player ready to go that is better than Hurn, struth. It's not what it's about. It's about changing the structure of the team in a way which allows us to keep playing more youth in the side at the expense of these elder statesman. Whether that's Hough and Bazzo, or another young player getting involved in the midfield more. Which is desperately needed.



Would you like me to do Shuey now?

Clark can take over the mid rotation
Culley can take over the mid rotation.
Chesser can take over the mid rotation.
New mid draftee can take over the mid rotation.



It's not as difficult as some are making it out to be.

Yeah but Hurns not taking a list spot from Cole, Yeo, Bazzo or Hough
Its Witherden and Nelson fighting for a list spot with Hurn. I would love to see Hurn leading the beagles in the wafl, might be a bit more competitive. Imagine the boost having Hurn and Redden playing in the wafl with the young guys, teaching them the ropes. Better then them learning from Witherden and Nelson IMO.
We also might have another year like this one where Yeo and McGovern break down again (not out of the realms of possibilty) and we have Hurn to step in.

 

[ziad]

It's really not that hard to answer the question of "Well who is there waiting for Hurn huh??? Who takes over from Shuey???"


Really.


Cole is back. He can take over from Hurn.
Yeo, when he returns can go back into defense, HE can take over from Hurn. (Free's up a midfield rotation for Clark, Chesser, Culley)
Bazzo can keep playing in defense and not be punted out as soon as McGovern is back, there's another option.
Hough, can go back into the back flank again. Another Option.


Is that enough? We don't instantly just have this upgraded player ready to go that is better than Hurn, struth. It's not what it's about. It's about changing the structure of the team in a way which allows us to keep playing more youth in the side at the expense of these elder statesman. Whether that's Hough and Bazzo, or another young player getting involved in the midfield more. Which is desperately needed.



Would you like me to do Shuey now?

Clark can take over the mid rotation
Culley can take over the mid rotation.
Chesser can take over the mid rotation.
New mid draftee can take over the mid rotation.



It's not as difficult as some are making it out to be. We are legit almost dead last in the competition with both these guys playing. How worse can things get?

Thats the future but as it is now Shuey is better than all of them so it is a step backwards. What will a preseason bring?

 

[Dark Sharks]

It’s difficult because I’m a nostalgic kent and it’d be sad to see the careers of those two absolute warriors end

So I keep fighting reality

This is why players need to know when to call it.

You don't want to get to the point where you start to resent your hero's for holding back the youth. Like what happened with Cox when he kept Slyce out forever and Simpson was forced into his genius 3 ruck strategy to accomodate him for a whole season. He wanted the record and couldn't let go.

Like unfortunately what is happening with Shuey now.


I mean gee, JK just kicked 8 snags in his last game and was BOG, yet still walked. Kerr arguably could've gone on, but didn't. Priddis didn't. Cockie didn't.





Kenny Rogers - The Gambler

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Yeah Hurn in particular could very easily go out now while still contributing, rather then potentially limping through next year if his body doesn’t hold up.

Go out on a high.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Yeah but Hurns not taking a list spot from Cole, Yeo, Bazzo or Hough
Its Witherden and Nelson fighting for a list spot with Hurn. I would love to see Hurn leading the beagles in the wafl, might be a bit more competitive. Imagine the boost having Hurn and Redden playing in the wafl with the young guys, teaching them the ropes. Better then them learning from Witherden and Nelson IMO.
We also might have another year like this one where Yeo and McGovern break down again (not out of the realms of possibilty) and we have Hurn to step in.

Cole and McGovern are both likely walk up starters and neither of them is playing right now.

Would you like Hough and Bazzo unceremoniously punted (as per usual), or would you rather Hurn takes a walk to allow them to keep their place?

Meanwhile Sheed is about to join this team again. With Shuey staying put that would means even less time for Culley, Clark and Chesser.





It'd all be a moot point if these guys were actually happy with playing WAFL and Simpson was brave enough to send them there. I just don't think a Premiership Captain, club record holder and AA captain Hurn will ever be seen at the Beagles. Likewise norm Smith Medalist and current club captain Luke Shuey unless he's coming off a serious injury and managed minutes. It just won't happen.

 

[Rowan18]

Even better, play Lobb, JHU, Bruce forward, Darcy and Naughton back.

Bruce is a complete spud. He had one fluke season last year but has now returned to form.

JHU is very young and won't be able to lead a forward line for a few years at best. Darcy is even more inexperienced.

Lobb is a bit like Bruce. Was average until he had a break out year this year. I'm not convinced he'll be able to replicate it.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

The veteran discussion all comes down to do you trust Simmo to restrain himself from playing them all if they’re available.

The discussion doesn’t really seem to be so much about their list spot, because there’s plenty of dead wood to cut anyway, but rather their usage should they keep said list spot.

Is it safer to just take his toys off him altogether, or can we trust Simmo to balance the kids and the veterans?

Fanboi take, but I think we can.

 

[swingdog]

The veteran discussion all comes down to do you trust Simmo to restrain himself from playing them all if they’re available.

The discussion doesn’t really seem to be so much about their list spot, because there’s plenty of dead wood to cut anyway, but rather their usage should they keep said list spot.

Is it safer to just take his toys off him altogether, or can we trust Simmo to balance the kids and the veterans?

Fanboi take, but I think we can.

I'm not sure you can.

The short term incentive for a coach is always a win and he will think he has a better chance with Hurn and Shuey in the team.

Conversely, if the club let them go this year, Simpson would have more of a free hand to really rebuild as the pressure of win expectations would be lower.

 

[Hook461123]

Cole and McGovern are both likely walk up starters and neither of them is playing right now.

Would you like Hough and Bazzo unceremoniously punted (as per usual), or would you rather Hurn takes a walk to allow them to keep their place?

Meanwhile Sheed is about to join this team again. With Shuey staying put that would means even less time for Culley, Clark and Chesser.





It'd all be a moot point if these guys were actually happy with playing WAFL and Simpson was brave enough to send them there. I just don't think a Premiership Captain, club record holder and AA captain Hurn will ever be seen at the Beagles. Likewise norm Smith Medalist and current club captain Luke Shuey unless he's coming off a serious injury and managed minutes. It just won't happen.

If Hurn or Shuey refuse to play WAFL then yeah they should retire. Not sure that is the case though. Redden has already mentioned he's expecting it. I can see Hurn being humble enough to play WAFL.

if Hough and Bazzo are better then a 35 year old Hurn then they should be playing and if they aren't then they shouldn't be playing just because rebuild. I would hope Bazzo pushes Hurn out of the starting 22 but it doesn't hurt to have Hurn there in case Gov and Yeo break down again. Do you see Yeo and Gov playing every game next season?
Plus like I said Hurn isn't taking a list spot from Hough and Bazzo and its up to them to push him out of the 22. Competition for spots is good all round I would think. Not just getting handed a spot because your young.

I think Simpson has to play the kids if they are better then Senior players or he loses his job. Its easier for Simpson to just say we are playing all the young guys so results don't matter. No expectations then. At least if he is playing the best players regardless of age he is trying to win games and if he's not brave enough to drop the senior players then he shouldn't be coach.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

There are two aspects to whether or not one or all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden should retire.

Firstly, if they continue they take up a list spot that would otherwise be filled by a fringe/developing player or late draft or rookie pick. This is what it means :

We have 28 players with a contract for 2023 or beyond. One of those (Culley) is on the rookie list so there’s 27 main list players.

Leaves 11 main list and 3 rookie list spots available to be filled through a combination of trades, draft and re-signings.

I’d be wanting to use a minimum of 4 draft picks - currently 2,20,26,38. With our next pick not until 74 I think we’d be better going to the rookie draft/SSP to pick at least 2 players on 1 year contracts.

That would leave 7 main list and 1 rookie spot open for the current 15 players without a contract to be given a new contract

Rioli, Naitanui and Jones should be renewed. I don’t think that’s controversial given Naitanui is required due to the dearth of AFL ready ruck options we have. Jones will need to be upgraded to the main list since he’s been on the rookie list for the maximum allowable 3 years

So four green bottles sitting on the wall (which can be increased to 5 by placing Langdon on the rookie list) with 12 players at the bar

So this is where the crunch comes. If all 3 veterans sign on, there’s only 2 spots left

Forward/rucks - Williams, Dixon
Backs - Witherden, Nelson
Mids - West, Trew, Joyce, Winder, Naish

Ruck stocks dictate one of Williams or Dixon need to be kept
Hurn continuing is a certain death warrant for Witherden and Nelson
Naish and Joyce are out meaning only one of West, Trew or Winder gets to stay.

Shuey staying on ends the career of one of those three. That’s the reality and people can make their own minds if that’s reasonable

Obviously this changes if one (or more) players ask to be traded out

The second part of the veterans playing on is the games they play in 2023 which will decrease the opportunity for younger players to get exposure at AFL level

Hurn playing most likely takes potential games away from the likes of HEdwards, Bazzo and Foley. In a functional WAFL side HEdwards and Bazzo can still get good experience leading the backline whilst providing injury cover for the seniors. Foley I’m not too fussed about

Of the usual six midfield positions, Kelly, Sheed and probably Gaff take 3. Leaves 3 spots for Shuey, O’Neill, Chesser, Hough, Culley, Redden, LEdwards, Pick 2, Clark and SPS to fight over. That’s 10 players without considering Yeo who I’m playing off half back. So if Shuey plays say 16 games, that’s 16 games of development we’re taking away from those younger players

I’ve flip flopped on the veterans continuing and more recently have been ok with them all going on

Redden I’m happy with because he’s on a low salary from what we know and has expressed an acceptance his time in the seniors might be limited. On that basis he’s a good low cost option to lead the WAFL midfield whilst providing an experienced back up if and when required

Hurn, based on this years form I’m ok with because I think Bazzo as a KPD can still learn what he needs to at WAFL level

Shuey is far harder to justify. We need to be accelerating the development of our young mids and, since I think West is the most likely to get a new contract of the 3 I mentioned, it means Winder or Trew miss out. That’d be a real shame if Shuey’s body fails him

If we’re genuine about a rebuild it’s time for Shuey to call time

Wait, you're arguing we should keep Zane Trew on our list over Shuey? Langdon to the rookie list?

How about both of them go. Zane Trew struggles to get 15 touches in the WAFL. He can go. If he shows signs he can be picked up in future years for nothing.

Langdon, just buy out and kick him out. He's not AFL standard.

We can play more than 6 midfielders, that's half our problem so far.

Our forward line should be Rioli, Allen, Ryan, Cripps, Darling, plus midfielder (Shuey/Kelly/Sheed types swapping off half forward/mid), and two midfielders on the bench. That's 8 midfielders in the team. 16 games might be the upper limit of Shuey games next year, but if he's prpeared to know he's not guaranteed first choice that's fine.

 

[Dark Sharks]

The veteran discussion all comes down to do you trust Simmo to restrain himself from playing them all if they’re available.

The discussion doesn’t really seem to be so much about their list spot, because there’s plenty of dead wood to cut anyway, but rather their usage should they keep said list spot.

Is it safer to just take his toys off him altogether, or can we trust Simmo to balance the kids and the veterans?

Fanboi take, but I think we can.

Well, at least you admit it.

For mine, the only reason we've actually seen our list this year, or any youth, was because Simpsons hand was forced due to injuries and covid.

Once the old guard all get back, Sheed, Cole, Gov, Yeo, are all available it'll be back as close to the 2018 team as he can get it.



Prepare yourselves.

Hurn, Barrass, Edwards
Cole, McGovern, Duggan
Gaff, Yeo, Sheed
Cripps, Darling, Petrucelle
Ryan, Allen, Rioli

Naitanui, Kelly, Shuey

INT: Redden, Williams, Waterman, Jones