List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Shueygod]

I like that 22 as a starting point.

This will be unpopular, but I’m not completely sold on Jones on a half back flank yet. He’s been exciting and shows flair/dash - but his disposal leaves a lot to be desired. Has to tidy this up because, let’s be honest, HBF is the easiest position to play in footy. Definite potential there though.

Rotham is a bit of a priority for me next year. We really need to tap into his attacking game next year. I’d be starting him on a wing before Gaff for R1 next year.

I don’t disagree but his defensive capabilities on the smaller forwards are pretty solid. If he’s able to tidy up his disposal at full tilt he’ll be pretty handy.

I don’t know if you are saying that because you know Rotham personally as it’s bang on. The chip mark game style of recent years doesn’t suit him at all and he’s not really a third tall. Could be a very good running defender but whether he has the attitude to make it happen is another quiestion

 

[WCE_Talk]

I don’t disagree but his defensive capabilities on the smaller forwards are pretty solid. If he’s able to tidy up his disposal at full tilt he’ll be pretty handy.

I don’t know if you are saying that because you know Rotham personally as it’s bang on. The chip mark game style of recent years doesn’t suit him at all and he’s not really a third tall. Could be a very good running defender but whether he has the attitude to make it happen is another quiestion

I think Rotham has looked a lot better forward of the footy, I’d like to see him be utilised as a wing or something, I don’t want to see him in defence again personally


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[THE A5]

I like that 22 as a starting point.

This will be unpopular, but I’m not completely sold on Jones on a half back flank yet. He’s been exciting and shows flair/dash - but his disposal leaves a lot to be desired. Has to tidy this up because, let’s be honest, HBF is the easiest position to play in footy. Definite potential there though.

Rotham is a bit of a priority for me next year. We really need to tap into his attacking game next year. I’d be starting him on a wing before Gaff for R1 next year.

Yeah I have the same thoughts on Jones and have been made fun off for that view. That said his ball use has improved over the last handful of games. I think with a full preseason training as a defender he should be a lot better for it next season

 

[twce13]

I actually think the TK trade looks better in hindsight. I hated the deal at the time.

Unlikely we take the guns with the picks we had.. that's fantasy think.

But take a look at what geelong took with those picks and it's pretty uninspiring stuff..pretty sure they'd much rather have tk still.

Given the lack of talent in the 25 to 29 bracket, having tk is important for the next few years.

 

[Obeanie1]

De Goey is a gun but Barrass right now is better.

If our senior players have a good preseason and remain injury free ( huge if), and Culley can come on which I think he will. Our best 22 will realistically be better on every line than the pies imo

Pies youth is deeper because they stuffed up their salary cap and had to trade out players in a fire sale. That looks like it isnt over either.

We can catch up on that within two drafts and trade periods.

Then again dont be surprised if the Pies miss the top 8 next year. The old blokes get older and they dont win all those close games.

 

[Obeanie1]

Adams has played 17 out of 22 games

It’s hilarious how you guys think we have all these elite senior players purely because of their actual names yet we’re arguably the worst team in the competition…

Barrass - gun
Hurn - still a serviceable player, but will be gone by the end of 2023
Kelly - good player
Redden - solid player but he’s not impactful at all
Gov - been woeful for the last couple seasons largely due to injuries, was awesome to start this season before getting injured again, but I have zero faith with him ever staying on the park unfortunately, also think Barrass is worse when he has to cover for Gov
Ryan - been absolutely pathetic all season, he’s clearly unfit and his application has been very disappointing, obviously a gun when he’s on but I’m pretty concerned about him right now
Rioli - been very poor this season after the fast start, obviously he has been through a lot but it’s disappointing he still looks unfit
Duggan - great game on the weekend, but another one who has somehow escaped criticism for far too long, looked like he levelled up in 2020 and then has gone backwards since, that may be due to a lack of continuity of course but still, he’s an average player right now, do think he’s better than what he has shown though

Collingwood’s players are much more capable in particular roles than ours.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We dont have all these elite players. Niether does Collingwood.

That was the point you obviously missed.

We have Barrass and thats it.

Pies have De Goey.

There are no other truly elite types on either team.

Some A graders and good B+ role players.

 

[Goroyals22]

So if Hurn led out a team of Auskickers he would be a poor captain because the team would get flogged. Righto.

Nice false equivalency

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Curious if there were any decent no WA kids available at those selections.

There were but WA had a strong team and East Fremantle especially was full of talent. Jackson, Warner, Rivers, Sharp and Truscoe to name a few from a single WAFL club.

My bias was that I saw them play and expected them to be available at or about our 3 picks. I put my hand up in 2019 that I wanted local.

 

[Shueygod]

Fully fit the backline and forward lines of the eagles are still top 5 in the competition (dependent on Gov and Allen returning in good form).

As always the issue lies with the midfield which everyone has known for a long time.

Melbourne have a ludicrous midfield making up for their arseh*le of a forward line so if we exclude them from the equation the other top teams look like this.

Stanley/Blicavs
Guthrie
Danger (barely played)
Atkins
Parfitt
Selwood

Darcy
Brayshaw
Serong
Brodie
Mundy

Hickey
Warner (freak)
Parker
Mills
Rowbottom

Big O
Neale
Mcgluggage
Lyons
Berry
Zorko

Cox/Cameron
Adams
Lipinski
Pendlebury


Most of these you’re looking at one a grade midfielder (exception is probably Sydney and Brisbane) and then B graders filling it out.

I don’t see a reason why next year

Naitanui
Oneil
Culley
Kelly


Wouldn’t be able to come close or match the output of all of the above.

May be putting high expectations on Culley but he seems an extremely dedicated kid and if he can be a 20 possession defensive midfielder (think Viney, Selwood, Newcombe) and allow Kelly to get off the chain along with Naitanui it could work.

Naitanui at 80% fitness is still the best clearance player in the competition.

 

[Keys]

That standards were allowed to slip since the premiership generally, and more specifically since covid hit isn’t a debate. Clearly things went awry and our onfield results reflect that

Nb: I’m not using covid as an excuse, but as a marker of when the nosedive began

We can all have our theories about why and who was to blame but unless anybody was a fly on the wall we really won’t ever know other than to say across the board key personnel didn’t deliver. Putting the decline of standards all on Shuey is unfair nor as captain should he be blameless

All we us supporters can hope for is that lessons have been learned and the necessary changes get made. On that point I’m less interested in what gets said in the coming weeks and more interested in what actually gets done

Shuey being contracted for another year is an indication to me that the list cuts won’t be as deep as many people are looking for. Selections (like Gaff) in the back end of this season give cause for concern about whether we will adequately prioritise development next year, whilst there has been other indicators that there’s an appetite for genuine change

 

[WCE_Talk]

We dont have all these elite players. Niether does Collingwood.

That was the point you obviously missed.

We have Barrass and thats it.

Pies have De Goey.

There are no other truly elite types on either team.

Some A graders and good B+ role players.

Fair, but I clearly stated that I don’t consider those guys elite, just good role guys that still contribute in a fairly big way.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Goroyals22]

The attitudes on gameday he may be referring too , players not putting in 100% as a united team on the same page ..Too many individuals looking out for themselves ..Spreads fast through the team ..Not just talking about this year ..

One thing that has stuck out like dogs nuts this year compared to 2018 and even the last couple of years is how selfish some of our forwards have become. 2018 they always passed to a bloke in a better position by hand or foot. This year the amount of times especially Cripps, Rioli and Ryan have burnt each other taking difficult shots on the run instead of handballing over the top or passing by foot has been frustrating.. we definitely have let goals go to waste by it

 

[Shueygod]

Fair, but I clearly stated that I don’t consider those guys elite, just good role guys that still contribute in a fairly big way.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

But why do you think our senior players aren’t capable of contributing as role players just as well?

You add 3-4 guys who are 5 - 15 on a list kick out the guy 20 - 30 (more like 30 - 40 this year) and it makes a massive difference to a team.

The senior players that get on the park are being asked to carry a massive load this season due to unfit players playing, and some absolute crabs being in the team. I’d imagine they’ll look a lot better once the team has some continuity and we don’t need to be playing bottom 10 players on our list.

 

[Shueygod]

The attitudes on gameday he may be referring too , players not putting in 100% as a united team on the same page ..Too many individuals looking out for themselves ..Spreads fast through the team ..Not just talking about this year ..

Since the bye I believe this team has truly given it 100%, they just don’t have the conditioning to run out games.

 

[Obeanie1]

Fair, but I clearly stated that I don’t consider those guys elite, just good role guys that still contribute in a fairly big way.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

And that is where our improvement must come from.

It wont be from all of a sudden drafting an elite mid. It will come from the entire group getting fit, staying fit and having an honest crack. We also need to refine our systems and gameplan. And the players commit to it.

I actually envy the Pies to a degree because they seem to play with passion and intent more often than not. They have a real crack. Yes they fall short but they at least give themselves a chance.

Lets be honest. The Eagles mentally and physically have let themselves down since 2018. Too many switched off and left the hard work to too few. We fix that we become competitive again. And the enthusiasm of youth is the tonic we need tolift the entire group.

 

[Ridge Renegade]

I COME IN PEACE....

It's Barrass

Good to have you back mate

 

[WCEswift]

Alright i did some deep diving to try find some bargains, Billy Dowling, first id heard his name i think could be a very good wing/hff putting up monster numbers in the sanfl

North Adelaide - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

 

[joeyavalanche]

There are two aspects to whether or not one or all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden should retire.

Firstly, if they continue they take up a list spot that would otherwise be filled by a fringe/developing player or late draft or rookie pick. This is what it means :

We have 28 players with a contract for 2023 or beyond. One of those (Culley) is on the rookie list so there’s 27 main list players.

Leaves 11 main list and 3 rookie list spots available to be filled through a combination of trades, draft and re-signings.

I’d be wanting to use a minimum of 4 draft picks - currently 2,20,26,38. With our next pick not until 74 I think we’d be better going to the rookie draft/SSP to pick at least 2 players on 1 year contracts.

That would leave 7 main list and 1 rookie spot open for the current 15 players without a contract to be given a new contract

Rioli, Naitanui and Jones should be renewed. I don’t think that’s controversial given Naitanui is required due to the dearth of AFL ready ruck options we have. Jones will need to be upgraded to the main list since he’s been on the rookie list for the maximum allowable 3 years

So four green bottles sitting on the wall (which can be increased to 5 by placing Langdon on the rookie list) with 12 players at the bar

So this is where the crunch comes. If all 3 veterans sign on, there’s only 2 spots left

Forward/rucks - Williams, Dixon
Backs - Witherden, Nelson
Mids - West, Trew, Joyce, Winder, Naish

Ruck stocks dictate one of Williams or Dixon need to be kept
Hurn continuing is a certain death warrant for Witherden and Nelson
Naish and Joyce are out meaning only one of West, Trew or Winder gets to stay.

Shuey staying on ends the career of one of those three. That’s the reality and people can make their own minds if that’s reasonable

Obviously this changes if one (or more) players ask to be traded out

The second part of the veterans playing on is the games they play in 2023 which will decrease the opportunity for younger players to get exposure at AFL level

Hurn playing most likely takes potential games away from the likes of HEdwards, Bazzo and Foley. In a functional WAFL side HEdwards and Bazzo can still get good experience leading the backline whilst providing injury cover for the seniors. Foley I’m not too fussed about

Of the usual six midfield positions, Kelly, Sheed and probably Gaff take 3. Leaves 3 spots for Shuey, O’Neill, Chesser, Hough, Culley, Redden, LEdwards, Pick 2, Clark and SPS to fight over. That’s 10 players without considering Yeo who I’m playing off half back. So if Shuey plays say 16 games, that’s 16 games of development we’re taking away from those younger players

I’ve flip flopped on the veterans continuing and more recently have been ok with them all going on

Redden I’m happy with because he’s on a low salary from what we know and has expressed an acceptance his time in the seniors might be limited. On that basis he’s a good low cost option to lead the WAFL midfield whilst providing an experienced back up if and when required

Hurn, based on this years form I’m ok with because I think Bazzo as a KPD can still learn what he needs to at WAFL level

Shuey is far harder to justify. We need to be accelerating the development of our young mids and, since I think West is the most likely to get a new contract of the 3 I mentioned, it means Winder or Trew miss out. That’d be a real shame if Shuey’s body fails him

If we’re genuine about a rebuild it’s time for Shuey to call time

This is 100% accurate. Please email this to Simmo


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Shueygod]

There are two aspects to whether or not one or all of Hurn/Shuey/Redden should retire.

Firstly, if they continue they take up a list spot that would otherwise be filled by a fringe/developing player or late draft or rookie pick. This is what it means :

We have 28 players with a contract for 2023 or beyond. One of those (Culley) is on the rookie list so there’s 27 main list players.

Leaves 11 main list and 3 rookie list spots available to be filled through a combination of trades, draft and re-signings.

I’d be wanting to use a minimum of 4 draft picks - currently 2,20,26,38. With our next pick not until 74 I think we’d be better going to the rookie draft/SSP to pick at least 2 players on 1 year contracts.

That would leave 7 main list and 1 rookie spot open for the current 15 players without a contract to be given a new contract

Rioli, Naitanui and Jones should be renewed. I don’t think that’s controversial given Naitanui is required due to the dearth of AFL ready ruck options we have. Jones will need to be upgraded to the main list since he’s been on the rookie list for the maximum allowable 3 years

So four green bottles sitting on the wall (which can be increased to 5 by placing Langdon on the rookie list) with 12 players at the bar

So this is where the crunch comes. If all 3 veterans sign on, there’s only 2 spots left

Forward/rucks - Williams, Dixon
Backs - Witherden, Nelson
Mids - West, Trew, Joyce, Winder, Naish

Ruck stocks dictate one of Williams or Dixon need to be kept
Hurn continuing is a certain death warrant for Witherden and Nelson
Naish and Joyce are out meaning only one of West, Trew or Winder gets to stay.

Shuey staying on ends the career of one of those three. That’s the reality and people can make their own minds if that’s reasonable

Obviously this changes if one (or more) players ask to be traded out

The second part of the veterans playing on is the games they play in 2023 which will decrease the opportunity for younger players to get exposure at AFL level

Hurn playing most likely takes potential games away from the likes of HEdwards, Bazzo and Foley. In a functional WAFL side HEdwards and Bazzo can still get good experience leading the backline whilst providing injury cover for the seniors. Foley I’m not too fussed about

Of the usual six midfield positions, Kelly, Sheed and probably Gaff take 3. Leaves 3 spots for Shuey, O’Neill, Chesser, Hough, Culley, Redden, LEdwards, Pick 2, Clark and SPS to fight over. That’s 10 players without considering Yeo who I’m playing off half back. So if Shuey plays say 16 games, that’s 16 games of development we’re taking away from those younger players

I’ve flip flopped on the veterans continuing and more recently have been ok with them all going on

Redden I’m happy with because he’s on a low salary from what we know and has expressed an acceptance his time in the seniors might be limited. On that basis he’s a good low cost option to lead the WAFL midfield whilst providing an experienced back up if and when required

Hurn, based on this years form I’m ok with because I think Bazzo as a KPD can still learn what he needs to at WAFL level

Shuey is far harder to justify. We need to be accelerating the development of our young mids and, since I think West is the most likely to get a new contract of the 3 I mentioned, it means Winder or Trew miss out. That’d be a real shame if Shuey’s body fails him

If we’re genuine about a rebuild it’s time for Shuey to call time

Completely disagree, realistically West is a hack and will never ever ever be a best 22 player in a top 8 team, anyone that disagrees doesn’t understand football.

Trew is a bit tougher as he does have slight potential of making the grade, don’t see why we couldn’t re rookie him. In terms of inside mids next year our only potential players are Culley, O’Neil, Kelly, Pick 2 (hopefully). Shuey can definitely play off a half forward flank and have short bursts without holding anyones development back.

The best 18 I listed earlier is perfect, if anything Hurn is far more expendable as we have literally 20 hbf’s.

 

[The Passenger]

If the captaincy went Shuey then Hurn we'd probably have still won a flag in 2018 and still be in roughly the same position in 2022.

All leaders of the club, which is not just the official leadership group but really everyone who's been in the system 10+ years (and some who haven't been in that long), deserve criticism for the poor standards. But this is the same group of players that led us in 2018 so they must know something about setting standards.

There's a lot of blame to go around.

• Stubborn coaching
• Poor standards
• Poor strength & conditioning
• Playing finals & grand finals, leading to:
• No high draft picks for years
• Only finding a few gems in recent drafts

Pinning it all onto a few people isn't fair, even though coach, captain and CEO do shoulder more blame than others.

 

[Obeanie1]

This is 100% accurate. Please email this to Simmo


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It doesnt account for trades.

Nelson will be gone and it seems a contracted player also wants out. Rotham or Waterman is my guess.

That is two extra spots not accounted for in the above analysis. Simo and the club knows this better than we do.

I want Winder retained, maybe to the rookie list. Redden may end up there as well.

Calm the farm.

 

[Keys]

It doesnt account for trades.

Nelson will be gone and it seems a contracted player also wants out. Rotham or Waterman is my guess.

That is two extra spots not accounted for in the above analysis. Simo and the club knows this better than we do.

I want Winder retained, maybe to the rookie list. Redden may end up there as well.

Calm the farm.

You’re correct that it didn’t account for trades but it was based on Nelson not being given a new contract

With Shuey signing a new contract, if Redden and Hurn do the same there’s only 2 spots available for either Williams, Dixon, West, Trew, Winder, Witherden or Nelson if he doesn’t leave

Rotham, Waterman or anybody else contracted would create an additional spot if they asked for a trade

 

[Obeanie1]

You’re correct that it didn’t account for trades but it was based on Nelson not being given a new contract

With Shuey signing a new contract, if Redden and Hurn do the same there’s only 2 spots available for either Williams, Dixon, West, Trew, Winder, Witherden or Nelson if he doesn’t leave

Rotham, Waterman or anybody else contracted would create an additional spot if they asked for a trade

IMO

Williams will join the ruck merry go round.

Witherden either traded for chips or delisted.

Trew let go.

Got a bad feeling Winder will go,not happy about that.

West will stay. He should go instead of Winder. Big heart, hard and a team player but will struggle when others are fit to play and the new draftees need games.

 

[Godfather32]

They’re very fair excuses though.

If you take away 7+ best 22 players and replace them with players in the 30-40 zone from any team they aren’t getting near finals. Carlton are a prime example, went from world beaters to mediocre with 4-5 key injuries.

Ok Mr Harvey

 

[illegaleagle]

Since the bye I believe this team has truly given it 100%, they just don’t have the conditioning to run out games.

The questions to be asked are why arent they as fit as the other teams in the comp and who is accountable for this lack of fitness?