Opinion Dees to Marvel?

[dazzledavey36]

Its because our game plan is shit, boring, slow and absolutely lifeless.

The sooner Goody, Roffey and Pert are out the door the better for this footy club.

 

[JohnZ]

I believe the Hawks and Tigers have also seen similarly low crowds this season (correct me if I’m wrong). Its not just happening to the small clubs.

These clubs can pull 80k, just look at Hawks v Carlton. The reality is that crowds drop quickly when not in contention. No club is immune. The eagles have dropped off compared to when Optus first opened. Both port and crows have been competitive this season, therefore crowds have been higher.

The other thing impacting crowds (be it 20k or 80k crowds) is the number of reserved seat members. Good for the clubs, bank the cash no matter what, but if they no-show it leaves a lot of seats unfilled that cannot otherwise be (easily) filled. That is a league-wide problem, at the G, at KP, at Optus, at AO.

 

[Purple Suit]

I know this is an unpopular opinion however it’s kind of the uncomfortable truth. Low crowds do not have to be inevitable.

In my view, the talent pool is not large enough to sustain 18 teams, let alone 20, and maintain the standard we would like.

On top of that, having sub 20k crowds in a city as big and footy obsessed as Melbourne does not make sense. Yes, it is inevitable that a struggling side will see a dip in crowds, but not to this extent. We had 39k last night, and over 40k against the Hawks, because 2 teams is the right amount for SA’s size.

I believe the Hawks and Tigers have also seen similarly low crowds this season (correct me if I’m wrong). Its not just happening to the small clubs.

The AFL is trying to have the best of both worlds in being a fair dinkum elite, professional, national comp while also having that suburban state comp charm and I just don’t think that’s realistic or sustainable.

I don’t understand the small talent pool argument? We went from 16 teams to 18 teams so 12.5% increase but the population has grown from 19m to 26m so 36%.

There are more kids playing footy than even and generally if you a good at it, you stick to it so the level has been getting better.

All teams would love to have better players but having a few extra teams isn’t really stuffing the comp. I think you’ll find the inequalities within the competition are doing more harm than the talent pool.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I don't think any MCG tenant is immune to an embarrassing home crowd when they're no good, or their season is over: one third full would be not a bad crowd at most other venues.

Melbourne's a bit different though. I remember going to a few of their games here and there with a mate when they were really trash (like 2013ish) and for those who watch on TV, this was like the bizarro Anzac Day. What I mean by that is when they used to show a few empty rows at the top of the MCC on Anzac Day and people would get very hot under the collar about it, I remember going to games where at least half of the crowd was in the MCC (the side you don't see on the TV). Which probably makes the crowd look even smaller for people sitting on their couches, criticising small attendances.

 

[Roylion]

Try merging two Vic teams together when the time is right.

Who's going to merge two Vic clubs?

Transparent metrics, where the lowest two teams via the metrics over the 10 year period get merged.

Who's going to do this? The AFL has no power to merge clubs it doesn't own.

 

[00Stinger]

meh. 3k more people went to Richmond v St Kilda the next day and they are two Victorian teams

 

[WillHayward]

Is it too late to send Nth to the Gold Coast?

 

[marcus1232]

meh. 3k more people went to Richmond v St Kilda the next day and they are two Victorian teams

You are right however it was 14 v 18

While your game is very much a live game

 

[beerbandit]

Marvel's too big. Send them down the highway and they can fill up half our stadium when we play interstate games.

Off to Junction Oval then ?

 

[Purple Suit]

Who's going to merge two Vic clubs?


Who's going to do this? The AFL has no power to merge clubs it doesn't own.

Either get them to sign off on it before the time period starts, offer sweeteners for them to agree or just cut funding dramatically and the two worst financially performing clubs will need to merge to survive. The AFL could make 4-5 Melbourne clubs struggle, then do the deal with a timeline set.

I think they will move to 20 teams first but when the times comes for 21 teams, they should look at merging two Melbourne ones at the same time.

 

[Underarm]

Either get them to sign off on it before the time period starts, offer sweeteners for them to agree or just cut funding dramatically and the two worst financially performing clubs will need to merge to survive. The AFL could make 4-5 Melbourne clubs struggle, then do the deal with a timeline set.

I think they will move to 20 teams first but when the times comes for 21 teams, they should look at merging two Melbourne ones at the same time.

The worst peforming clubs financially are GWS and Gold Coast.

 

[00Stinger]

You are right however it was 14 v 18

While your game is very much a live game

mathematically we were still alive but really we weren't

 

[Roylion]

Either get them to sign off on it before the time period starts,

Why would they agree to merge?

offer sweeteners for them to agree

That's been done before with no success.

or just cut funding dramatically and the two worst financially performing clubs will need to merge to survive.

Any attempt to "cull" clubs by forcing them to merge would need a very good reason (more than just wanting to keep a certain number of clubs) or there would be prolonged legal action through the courts.

The league has a legal duty to its incumbent clubs to look after their interests to a significant extent.

If, for example, the AFL cuts North's funding to force an expulsion, that will be legally challenged - especially if the same rules aren't then applied to clubs like the Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, and GWS. The AFL arent going to remove Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS.

Moreover clubs challenging explusion due to financial rules in the courts has historical precedent - South Sydney were removed from the NRL and eventually won the right to re-enter the competition. In 1989, when the VFL attempted to remove the Footscray Football Club's licence to compete in the VFL competition, they were slapped with a Supreme Court injunction, claiming that the then VFL had exceeded its powers to force a merger.

The AFL could make 4-5 Melbourne clubs struggle, then do the deal with a timeline set.

See above.

 

[mcgarnacle]

hey, hey, it's been a great ski season!!

 

[mcgarnacle]

Darwin Demons?

Merge them with St Kilda, and call them Melbourne Hells Angels

 

[Knight82]

No there isn't. So we boot out a Melbourne based team that gets 17k to a game to.subsidise GWS who get not even half that. Or Gold Coast who barely get more?

In an ideal world GCS or GWS might not have happened I think - I do understand that it takes time to solidify AFL support in those areas but both operations have probably been giant money sinks for the AFL. That money could have possibly been put to use elsewhere for (quite possibly) a more beneficial reason (besides the TV rights stuff)

I live on the Gold Coast myself and I have seen plenty of GC supporters around the place but it still feels like there also isn't that many supporters out and about as well (if you catch my drift)

I remember going to the games with a few mates when the Kangaroos to the GC push was on - some of those mates were Kangaroos supporters and were actually quite excited at the prospect of the Roos coming North. I think sometimes the 'AFL' and it's supporters as a whole gets caught up in the concepts of 'traditions' and 'well this is always how it has been - we can't make such a radical change etc'

Just my 2c on that topic

 

[JPetro83]

This is why Melbourne(the city) NEEDS a boutique stadium. there are so many old suburban grounds to choose from.. pick one that is easiest to get to via public transport and redevelop it to a 30K seated stadium

 

[Purple Suit]

Why would they agree to merge?


That's been done before with no success.


Any attempt to "cull" club by forcing them to merge would need a very good reason (more than just wanting to keep a certain number of clubs) or there would be prolonged legal action through the courts.

The league has a legal duty to its incumbent clubs to look after their interests to a significant extent.

If, for example, the AFL cuts North's funding to force an expulsion, that will be legally challenged - especially if the same rules aren't then applied to clubs like the Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, and GWS. The AFL arent going to remove Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS.

Moreover clubs challenging explusion due to financial rules in the courts has historical precedent - South Sydney were removed from the NRL and eventually won the right to re-enter the competition. In 1989, when the VFL attempted to remove the Footscray Football Club's licence to compete in the VFL competition, they were slapped with a Supreme Court injunction, claiming that the then VFL had exceeded its powers to force a merger.


See above.

The same rules could be applied, the AFL would just need to get creative in how it is divided up to each state if they wanted to basically squeeze Melbourne clubs only. Eg. Split the TV revenue based on coverage in each state & divide the revenue for each team. 10 Vic teams means a lot of mouths to feed.

Since the AFL owns the expansion teams, it could also prop them up independently and offer to do the same to the member own clubs if they sign over ownership.

I'm not saying they do it soon but I think merging and creating makes more sense than relocating. Maybe we end up with 24-30 teams eventually and 10 in Vic is a logical great number.

 

[Handsuper47]

let them play more games at darwin, they seem to enjoy it there

 

[qlderlions]

IMHO we need a 30K boutique stadium near the CBD, for smaller to mid size Melbourne clubs to play against lower drawing interstate teams. I would rather watch the Hawks fill out a boutique stadium when playing against the likes of GWS/SUNS, than playing in a largely empty MCG. Better spectacle.

Is overstating their member numbers the reason why the smaller Melbourne teams get such poor crowds for the smaller interstate sides? I look at Melbourne/North/St Kilda getting 17k-25k and I think really 50-70k members in those clubs? We had 31k (near capacity) at the Gabba the other day vs GWS, there would have been lucky to be 300 GWS supporters at the Gabba.

 

[Roylion]

The same rules could be applied, the AFL would just need to get creative in how it is divided up to each state if they wanted to basically squeeze Melbourne clubs only.

Squeezing a couple of the Melbourne clubs and not others, the AFL could open themselves up to legal challenge.

Eg. Split the TV revenue based on coverage in each state & divide the revenue for each team. 10 Vic teams means a lot of mouths to feed.

But, by virtue of holding a licence the clubs are all meant to be equal constituents of the AFL. They hold a licence to compete in the AFL and that entitles them to a share of the AFL funds which includes equalisation funds.

Since the AFL owns the expansion teams, it could also prop them up independently and offer to do the same to the member own clubs if they sign over ownership.

That's been tried before as well...most noticeably with the failed effort to get North Melbourne to go to the Gold Coast in 2008. The AFL offered incentives, but the price was the club would be owned by the AFL. North, of course refused.

I'm not saying they do it soon but I think merging and creating makes more sense than relocating.

Club will explore every avenue to avoid a merger, often with a great deal of vitriol and negative publicity. We saw that in the 80s and 90s. To the point where the AFL abandoned any further attempt to enourage mergers of Melbourne based clubs and decided to expand the league.

Maybe we end up with 24-30 teams eventually and 10 in Vic is a logical great number.

Whether its 10 or 11 Victorian teams makes no difference really other than having the optics of a round number. Bit like the attempts to keep the AFL to 16 teams only in the mid 90s.

 

[Underarm]

Is overstating their member numbers the reason why the smaller Melbourne teams get such poor crowds for the smaller interstate sides? I look at Melbourne/North/St Kilda getting 17k-25k and I think really 50-70k members in those clubs? We had 31k (near capacity) at the Gabba the other day vs GWS, there would have been lucky to be 300 GWS supporters at the Gabba.

Brisbane are sitting in 3rd, North melbourne and St Kilda are in the bottom 6. QLD has 5 million people, North and Saints are competing for 1/10th of 7 Million people.

higher member numbers is actually improving the floor of these games.

 

[Blue1980]

If the AFL want to maximise crowds, Melbourne should be forced to relocate to Marvel, and get Essendon and Carlton playing more at the G.

I can’t think of an argument against it other than Melbourne must play at MCG cos Melbourne.

Also AFL probably don’t want Marvel being seen as a 2nd tier stadium for lower drawing vic sides (which it is, simply by its capacity).

Anyway, as a pragmatic decision Melbourne should be made to play the majority of their home games at Marvel is my view. Discuss.

 

[SSSSSS]

But where will the seagulls go?

 

[RUNVS]

Admittedly I have not been to Victoria since I was 6 months old but I thought Marvel was in Melbourne already? Feels like moving an entire city to a stadium would be kind of complicated.