Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Supermegaultrathread - It's Never Too Soon edition

[Doughboy]

Is there a TL;DR version?

 

[Convocation]

Is there a TL;DR version?

more than likely, but bored at work, so wrote war and peace. Have subsequently seen other posts covering the exact same thing in a more succinct way, but I don't know how to delete the post. Mod's delete or merge, whichever works best

 

[Convocation]

more than likely, but bored at work, so wrote war and peace. Have subsequently seen other posts covering the exact same thing in a more succinct way, but I don't know how to delete the post. Mod's delete or merge, whichever works best

Thanks Mod's

 

[Naitanui2Shuey]

There aren't many options at the trade table ATM. We aren't getting Dangerfield or Fyfe regardless of how much money we throw at them as I doubt they would leave, and if they did we have little trade currency to make it happen. Harley Bennell is also close to resigning so he's also out of the question. Furthermore, getting rid of Gaff, Shuey, Selwood, Masten et al. isn't the answer. Masten and Scooter aren't going to improve much more and we won't get much of value for them. Shuey and Gaff have potential to be A graders (Gaff purely as a wingman), but only if we could get more quality around them.

Yeo, Sheed and Waterman are the most likely solutions but we should also seriously be looking to throw money at Tom Mitchell and convince him to nominate a trade to us. He lived in Perth for four years so adjusting to the lifestyle shouldn't be a problem. He's out of favour at the moment and not because of his ability but because of the performances of similar types of players around him (Bird, Hannebery, Jack and Parker). I'm not sure if he is out of contract or not, but regardless we will have to part with our first rounder (around 8-10) and probably receive a late second rounder in return. Coniglio is in the same boat but would probably cost more. I'd be waiting until next year when he's out of contract to go after him.

Bastinac I don't mind the idea of. The club rated him very highly in his draft year and just missed out on him. He seems on the outer at North ATM. I assume he will be dropped for Wells when he is fit. He's probably worth a second rounder but seeing as we don't have one (assuming we use it on Waterman) we will have to part with a player and probably a third rounder, not sure who would suffice though.

The other option is to rebuild directly from the draft. We know we're getting Waterman for hopefully a second rounder. However our first pick is a bit of a lottery. There is no guarantee that Jarrod Pickett or Angus Brayshaw will last to our pick. That leaves Tom Lamb, Corey Ellis or Christian Petracca as options as forward/midfielders going by the SEN mock draft. I'd be very happy with either of Brayshaw, Pickett or Petracca as they would all fill a need.

 

[lyall]

Bastinac signed a 3 year deal 3 days ago so is probably now out of the question

 

[INSANE]

'Naitanui2Shuey', Tom Mitchell is out if contract.

 

[Falco]

'Naitanui2Shuey', Tom Mitchell is out if contract.

Would be good to see what he can do. 2nd rounder?

 

[Matera LeNui]

Don't want fringe got enough fringe

True but they are advanced on us in the midfield. There fringe is a few steps above ours.

 

[Matera LeNui]

As we are a successful club that expect to play finals every year we as supporters sometimes lack the same composure some of our players lack, particularly after a performance like last night. As supporters we can only judge and make assumptions on our team by what we see happen on the field and by what information the team puts into the media. We are unfortunately not on the inner sanctum so don’t get to see what the club is and isn't doing to satisfy our desires as supporters to succeed as team.

From where I sit as a supporter, I never thought we would make the finals in 2014, despite the ‘soft’ draw, countless “expert” opinions and champion data’s analysis of squad. When you look at the significant change to the coaching panel and in particular the inexperience of the new coaching panel, we as supporters should have hoped for the best, but in reality expected a challenging year. Very few teams, bar the cats, in recent times have had immediate success with a new coach, let alone a new coaching panel (Brenton Sanderson and a host of other coaches from the Bomber Thompson era were retained). Before we call for Adam’s head (yes people have started beating the drums on twitter already), and/or criticize his coaching decisions critically, I think we need to look at the coaching panel below, and recognise that Adam (from an outsiders point of view) is still working out the team, his team, and their capabilities. You have to get it right off field before you get it right on field.

· Adam Simpson – Head Coach – 1st year head coach, learning his trade with a coaching panel partially decided prior to his engagement. We all called for a change, and I think we need to be patient as he is in my opinion the right coach for our team.

· Neale Daniher – General Manager Football Operations – Highly regarded and a great mentor for what is a new coaching panel. Workload and/or future at West Coast not understood as he has Motor Neuron disease.

· Don Pyke - Specialist Coach, Game tactics and innovative systems – Joined the coaching team after seven years out of the AFL (admittedly kept his hand in at Claremont) when he ended a two-season stint at Adelaide as an assistant to Neil Craig in 2005-06. Pyke is responsible for Strategy, Stoppages and structure and is effectively Phil Walsh’s replacement. Was a strange decision in my mind, but one that will be judged among many others with Simmo if it has or hasn’t worked.

· Brady Rawlings - Assistant Coach, Midfield – 1st time assistant coaching role, previous experience as North Melbourne’s Senior recruiting and induction coach for 12 months.

· Justin Longmuir - Assistant Coach, Forwards – Only remaining member of the “John Worslfold” coaching panel. Development coach (presumably for Fwd’s and Rucks given his career), for Freo and Eagles up to 2011. Assistant coach since then

· Adrian Hickmott - Assistant Coach, Backline – Most extensive CV of all the coaches, but still a first time assistant coach at AFL level. Background is as head of development for Essendon, before becoming colts coach and league assistant for Swan Districts and then joining West Coast as a development coach in 2012, and his most recent role as assistant coach from the start of this season.

· Dean Cox – Ruck Coach – Player/Coach. Is one of the best ruckman to play the game and has completed the same recognised and reputed coaching course Adam Simpson has completed.

· Daniel Pratt/Jaymie Graham/Adam Selwood (Midfield) – Development Coach

· Mark Niksoki – Player Welfare and Development Coach

· Gavin Bell – Senior Development Coach

· Warren Kofoed – Performance Coach, Strength and Conditioning – Previously Richmond’s Rehab and Conditioning Coach

It would be safe to assume that at the end of the year, Adam would be looking at the team above, and with Daniher hopefully able to mentor him into ‘not doing everything” and adding to the team where he believes the team needs to be added to, potentially bringing in a Dean Laidley, Mark Harvey senior type to be his 2IC.


If we turn our focus to on-field, and may be put a little more credence in ‘expert’ opinions and champion data, along with our own analysis, in my opinion our list with small refinements could go from where we are now, to a true premiership threat. In my analysis of online opinion on this board, the main criticism is with our midfield, a view also shared by many supporters of other teams. Our backline and forward line (I know we are not taking marks) are not the problem, and whatever problems they may have/or that we may of complained about, can be in my opinion rectified by fixing our midfield. As obvious as it is we are lacking an A grade midfielder, a Dangerfield, Watson, Pendlebury etc, it is just as obvious what an A grade midfielder would do to others in the team e.g. Shuey who is down on form, potentially carrying an injury and struggling with a tag would be given freedom to use the skills we know he has and become an A grade midfielder because of this freedom (think how much better he was when Kerr was in the side and playing well sans injury), Wellingham is afforded the luxury of playing his Collingwood role, Disposal efficiency and decision making across the board is increased etc.

So who do we go after and who do we trade? We are likely to finish anywhere between 9th and 14th which will give us a pick between 6-12 (unsure of compensation picks floating around). Be as realistic as possible i.e. Pick 6 to 12 and Callum Sinclair/Schofield for Steve Coniglio. Below is a list Western Australian midfielder footballers that we might be able to entice home, as getting a Dangerfield is going to be nigh on impossible without compromising current and future list management. I realise some of the names do not fit A Grade midfielder (potential), but other do, so intrigued on people’s thoughts as to who should be trying to get, what we would have to realistically give up for them and why.


Harley Bennell (Gold Coast)

Jack Martin (Gold Coast)

David Swallow (Gold Coast)

Jaeger O’Meara (Gold Coast)

Tom Mitchell (Swans)

Lewis Jetta (Swans)

Steven Coniglio (GWS)

Mitch Duncan (Geelong)

Nat Fyfe (Freo)

Stephen Hill (Freo)

Clinton Jones (St Kilda)

Reece Conca (Richmond)

Liam Anthony (North)

Andrew Swallow (North)

Alex Fasolo (Pies)

Hertier Lumumba (Pies)

Marley Williams (Pies)

Dennis Armfield (Blues)

Patrick Cripps (Blues)

Jeff Garlett (Blues)

Kane Lucus (Blues)

Chris Yarran (Blues)

Daniel Rich (Lions)

Comprehensive effort across the board, maybe our mids should follow suit

Were we sit now Im a little worried more than last year about trading our top picks. If we could get a Yarran or Hill through trading I would be happy but if we are going to use our top picks in a trade we need a blockbuster player. Better than a Wellingham. We would need a player 21-25 who is a star or on the verge, a sure bet. Pretty much most of the top of your list.

I just dont know if we can say were only trading a pick 18 or 10 or whatever and feel comfortable with it-the way our recruiting has gone there could be more stuffups in the next 3 years, that would leave our list in a similar position in 5 years. Maybe its better to take the pain now-back in what we have to improve under Simpson and keep our top picks.

In other words Im thinking only A graders.

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

Alex Waterman certainly knows how to find the footy. 35 Disposals at 83% and 10 clearances in the u18s champs vs Vic Metro looks very good...hopefully we can get him with our second rounder which looks likely at the moment seeing we will finish outside the 8.

As far as Tom Mitchell goes, do we need another limited small midfielder that doesn't have elite pace or foot skills? Wouldn't mind him if he comes cheap but wouldn't be offering anything huge, seems a bit like Masten. Bennell, Coniglio, O'Meara and Swallow are ones we should throw a lot at. Patrick Cripps would be interesting too seeing he's a big bodied mid but I think its a bit early to be going for him.

 

[Impunity!]

Guys the gameplan is the problem.

Norf just pressed up hard and run like mad.

Oh and Majak

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Nat Fyfe would cost all of our first born children, a first rounder and Jack Darling. That might even be unders.

hey, a first round pick + lycett/mcgov wouldn't be too dissimilar to what we got out of the judd trade. if a player's out of contract and they want to leave you're limited in what you can get.

but unless freo's maxed their cap for the foreseeable future there's no way they'd not pull the money together to keep him.

 

[The_Reaper]

Would be good to see what he can do. 2nd rounder?

I wonder what the Swans would be interest in?

I don't want to give up Lycett but he might be what we'd have to give up.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Mitchell won't be coming cheap. Was rated a top 10 pick in his draft class and the fact he isn't able to break into a very strong side isn't going to push down his value much if at all.

 

[Falco]

hey, a first round pick + lycett/mcgov wouldn't be too dissimilar to what we got out of the judd trade. if a player's out of contract and they want to leave you're limited in what you can get.

but unless freo's maxed their cap for the foreseeable future there's no way they'd not pull the money together to keep him.

Theyve got a few veterans which might be leaving them some cap space.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Guys the gameplan is the problem.

Norf just pressed up hard and run like mad.

Oh and Majak

not wrong, we've always struggled with teams that flood. watching us bomb it into a crowded forward line was utter piss.

though i think it comes back to the midfielder's poor skill/speed in terms of being able to get the ball forward before norf got numbers back/had the composure to drop the eyes and seek out an alternative option.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Theyve got a few veterans which might be leaving them some cap space.

yeah, i mean you'd expect pavlich/sandilands will be retiring within the next couple of years. if they're tight on cap space they'll just offer fyfe a contract where the bulk of it's payed out once those players have gone.

 

[bombard]

Blind Freddy can see what our problems are. Knowing what they are and being able to fix them are two completely different things. Until he actually fixes them he hasn't proven anything as a coach - and no amount of polished media performances will change that. He'll get his opportunity to do so.

I think after 11 games, 0.75 pre-seasons and 0 trade periods, that really - understanding our problems is about a best-case scenario. Love him to bits, but that's one step ahead of Woosh by the end.

 

[ziad]

so we have Richmonds ex fitness coach - thats is a very sallow gene pool to be drawing from

 

[Freo2012]

yeah, i mean you'd expect pavlich/sandilands will be retiring within the next couple of years. if they're tight on cap space they'll just offer fyfe a contract where the bulk of it's payed out once those players have gone.

Spot on - Pav and Sandi will command large salaries for 2015 - they'll both still be playing, hopefully McP as well. But Freo has a large warchest for FA players and will be making moves again this year. Freo has been using that warchest renegotiating contracts in the last month to ensure we fully utilise cap and roll the warchest forward to the new years - no way are we losing Fyfe. Freo has been managing their cap probably better than any team in recent years - part of the benefit of recruiting well in the lower order/rookies and not overpaying depth/developing players.

 

[twce13]

going after players outside of FA, you'll always pay overs... especially with a-graders (by the by clinton jones, kane lucas.. we opening a spud store in perth?)

the top teams build teams in the draft and top up with smart trading (and I guess FA is a whole new element nowadays). They don't chase a-graders.. however with FA this is all the more possible.
The draft is always where you build the foundation for a premiership.

 

[Jootube]

Spot on - Freo has been managing their cap probably better than any team in recent years - part of the benefit of recruiting well in the lower order/rookies and not overpaying depth/developing players.

Ross, I think I see someone spying through your window!

 

[bluengold89]

'Naitanui2Shuey', Tom Mitchell is out if contract.

I'm not sure that he is. The sydney board seem confused about it, but the general consensus is that he signed a 4 year deal meaning he comes out of contract end of next year. The reason the deal was so long for a draftee was because they wanted to keep him away from gws/gc.

 

[Icanwalk]

going after players outside of FA, you'll always pay overs... especially with a-graders (by the by clinton jones, kane lucas.. we opening a spud store in perth?)

the top teams build teams in the draft and top up with smart trading (and I guess FA is a whole new element nowadays). They don't chase a-graders.. however with FA this is all the more possible.
The draft is always where you build the foundation for a premiership.

Quite simply not true. Look at Port with regards to Ebert and Polec for example.

It is true that established players usually hold more currency than draft picks. However, there are always unique circumstances surrounding a player on the market, and some certain circumstances can be taken advantage of to secure a player (irrespective of quality), for under market value. Unfortunately, this memo hasn't reached Vozzo and the gang.

It is up to the recruiting department to have a strong understanding of the tactics, personnel, and corresponding strengths and weakness of their team, and to be able to identify opposition players with extentuating cicumstances that prove favourable, and to negotiate accordingly with their respective club. It takes a holistic approach to use the transfer market to improve a side (much like in any market involving commodities). If they are capable of doing so, they would never overpay for a player.

Easier said than done of course, but it is their f**king job, and they have proved to be incompetent. Time for an overhaul this component of the club.

 

[Adzam]

Ideally I would love to see be able to draft Pickett and waterman.
I would trade my left nut for congilio. I would trade both my nuts for jäger omeara