Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[gringo2011]

At the end of 2010 our list was so lopsided, that the damage was done. It was the drafting/trading, etc that we did in the years prior to 2010 that is the reason why we were bound to fall off a cliff, and the reason why we have hardly any mid to late 20's at their physical and mental peak, and being leaders.

Our drafting since 2010 has had some successes and failures, but I still think the overall intention has been great, with the execution being hit and miss. I generally think we got it right in recent years, it just seems we are a bit behind where we want to be in high end talent and physical maturity.

When you say managed one out. Well, didn't we only manage two out - Dal and BJ, and I'd say both those decisions will be viewed as positives. Everyone else stayed at saints until de-listed or retired? I guess you can add McEvoy in, although I see that as partly a player trade that probably went awry. I think we overrated Savage a bit, but were trying to fill gaps.

I still think we should have kept the bulk of our high end players and built around that. Trying to build a list in the compromised drafts by swapping high picks for multiple later picks is almost laughably dumb now. If it had worked it would have been luck not good management.

 

[Greg1853]

I still think we should have kept the bulk of our high end players and built around that. Trying to build a list in the compromised drafts by swapping high picks for multiple later picks is almost laughably dumb now. If it had worked it would have been luck not good management.

Fair enough, but I struggle to see who is still playing, and will much into the future, who we could have built around. BJ?, McEvoy, Stanley. You keep them and what is left is the same side minus the players we were able to recruit from these trades.

 

[gringo2011]

Fair enough, but I struggle to see who is still playing, and will much into the future, who we could have built around. BJ?, McEvoy, Stanley. You keep them and what is left is the same side minus the players we were able to recruit from these trades.

A lot would have been retiring but the kids would have been developed blanketed by the senior bodies, learnt to win and set training and playing standards.

The good clubs don't bottom out any more and since the Hawks did the full bottom out in the early 2000s not to many successful clubs have come from a long bottom out and come in to win a Premiership. Richmond were a full rebuild in the time of the Hawks rebuild but since have been a middle table side for about 15 years. I think the cats have missed one finals series since we played them in the 2009 GF. They look much closer to the prize than us.

Even the game plan for those good clubs is really well drilled because the older guys can instruct a kid to do exactly what they were doing when they step in. One soldier in one soldier out as they say.

 

[plugger66]

A lot would have been retiring but the kids would have been developed blanketed by the senior bodies, learnt to win and set training and playing standards.

The good clubs don't bottom out any more and since the Hawks did the full bottom out in the early 2000s not to many successful clubs have come from a long bottom out and come in to win a Premiership. Richmond were a full rebuild in the time of the Hawks rebuild but since have been a middle table side for about 15 years. I think the cats have missed one finals series since we played them in the 2009 GF. They look much closer to the prize than us.

Even the game plan for those good clubs is really well drilled because the older guys can instruct a kid to do exactly what they were doing when they step in. One soldier in one soldier out as they say.

Just like they learnt off roo and joey. I don’t buy that stuff at all. I do buy club not bottoming out because we now have fa. Unfortunately no one wants us


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[Saintbloke]

We have too many players with good skills and some experience who are not stepping up and performing at the top level required. The only players who seem to be playing smart footy with good intensity are Dunstan, Carlise and Brown and to a lesser extent, Acres IMO. The rest are more like VFL level- that makes only four players in a team who are playing at an acceptable level. Coffield is doing nicely for a newbie.

Where's the expected improvement from Ross, Sinclair, Gresham, Newnes- and consistency from Steven? These are some of the backbone guys who should be now having some kind of impact on games instead of running around like rabbits in the spotlight.

A total lack of direction.

 

[gringo2011]

Just like they learnt off roo and joey. I don’t buy that stuff at all. I do buy club not bottoming out because we now have fa. Unfortunately no one wants us


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Surely having more than a handful would have been even better. Since they stepped aside we don't seem to be coping.

 

[gringo2011]

We have too many players with good skills and some experience who are not stepping up and performing at the top level required. The only players who seem to be playing smart footy with good intensity are Dunstan, Carlise and Brown and to a lesser extent, Acres IMO. The rest are more like VFL level- that makes only four players in a team who are playing at an acceptable level. Coffield is doing nicely for a newbie.

Where's the expected improvement from Ross, Sinclair, Gresham, Newnes- and consistency from Steven? These are some of the backbone guys who should be now having some kind of impact on games instead of running around like rabbits in the spotlight.

A total lack of direction.

I think Stuvs ankle might be stuffed from the JLT. He looks noticeably sore. All those guys are playing below their best and we have lost Bruce, Webster, Membrey, Longer, Koby, Roberton and Marshall.


We have been pretty lucky with injury recently, but on top of a drop off from some, we seem to lack confidence and now we are short on several fronts in our best 22. People bag Bruce but he's a leader and losing Webster and Roberton makes us extremely vulnerable down back. Bruce and Newness were injured all preseason so perhaps have some excuses but they were/ are playing poorly.

To me the only real positives of this year have been Marshall, Acres, Carlisle and Dunstan. That's four playing to their standard or better and the rest all have dropped away or are below their best. It's not rocket science what's wrong.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Richo still has his head up his ars3 and still not accepting any responsibility for the teams form.

Surely after 3 bad losses he could say in his presser that -

# He hadnt prepared the team well enough for the commencement of the season and it was showing.
# He has questioned his own performances effecting the players.
# He wasnt coaching at his best but was working towards getting things right.
# That they had implemented a new defensive system and it was taking a while to bed down.

Anything but blame the f.....n players lack of form. Thats it for me the guy has to go he is an absolute fw.

 

[plugger66]

Richo still has his head up his ars3 and still not accepting any responsibility for the teams form.

Surely after 3 bad losses he could say in his presser that -

# He hadnt prepared the team well enough for the commencement of the season and it was showing.
# He has questioned his own performances effecting the players.
# He wasnt coaching at his best but was working towards getting things right.
# That they had implemented a new defensive system and it was taking a while to bed down.

Anything but blame the f.....n players lack of form. Thats it for me the guy has to go he is an absolute fw.

As if any coach would come out and say that in public. Well at least you are a true supporter. Giving up because you don't like the coach.

 

[VDS66]

Richo still has his head up his ars3 and still not accepting any responsibility for the teams form.

Surely after 3 bad losses he could say in his presser that -

# He hadnt prepared the team well enough for the commencement of the season and it was showing.
# He has questioned his own performances effecting the players.
# He wasnt coaching at his best but was working towards getting things right.
# That they had implemented a new defensive system and it was taking a while to bed down.

Anything but blame the f.....n players lack of form. Thats it for me the guy has to go he is an absolute fw.

What would that solve?

He has mentioned the new structure.

Didn't take you long...

 

[Saintbloke]

Richo still has his head up his ars3 and still not accepting any responsibility for the teams form.

Surely after 3 bad losses he could say in his presser that -

# He hadnt prepared the team well enough for the commencement of the season and it was showing.
# He has questioned his own performances effecting the players.
# He wasnt coaching at his best but was working towards getting things right.
# That they had implemented a new defensive system and it was taking a while to bed down.

Anything but blame the f.....n players lack of form. Thats it for me the guy has to go he is an absolute fw.

I think one of the reasons that Richo got the job, is that he is politically correct, and wont rock the boat(compared to Watters who he replaced). I reckon Watters might have had more success in the long term as he didn't mind calling a spade a spade, but the president and board couldn't handle a maverick.

 

[gringo2011]

Richo still has his head up his ars3 and still not accepting any responsibility for the teams form.

Surely after 3 bad losses he could say in his presser that -

# He hadnt prepared the team well enough for the commencement of the season and it was showing.
# He has questioned his own performances effecting the players.
# He wasnt coaching at his best but was working towards getting things right.
# That they had implemented a new defensive system and it was taking a while to bed down.

Anything but blame the f.....n players lack of form. Thats it for me the guy has to go he is an absolute fw.

I'm not sure he's had three poor performances though. I was so ****ed off after that North game I could hardly handle looking at Richo and the playing group but if I get rational for a minute I'd say that's the ONE game that didn't go to script. We lost to Adelaide by 7 goals who are a much better side than us, then we lost players to injury and played a youth heavy side against Geelong at the Cattery and lost by 8 goals. I think people were saying they'd be happy to keep it under 10 goals from memory. We will probably lose to GWS by a similar margin, it's a ****ing hard draw this year not helped by the injury or form line of the side this year.

We all hoped we'd make a massive leap this year but we haven't. We need a review and to temper expectation or people are just going to make themselves unhappy. We will lose to most of the top 8 sides but we will probably jag an unexpected one at some point. We will beat teams around us on the ladder along the way but we aren't playing finals unless a miracle happens and we just need to enjoy the journey of watching the kids get their chance. it's the one positive, we get to play Paddy as a KPF with no distractions and he'll be better for it. we will get kids like White, Coffield etc valuable game time and we are working on a game plan despite what people think.

 

[atlaser]

Riewoldt on Triple M.

- Grant Thomas and Ross Lyon did thorough and brutal match reviews. Basically now they aren’t nearly as brutal, it’s all about teaching now. Said he much preferred the old style because it got results.

- Said Ross Lyon use to admit if the coaches ****** up in the box, even in press conferences and as players you like that. Shows accountability. (Richo is the opposite lol)

This is extremely important - how do you feel as a player if your coach's gameplan is to have you harass the opposition tirelessly while they keep chipping it around until you get gassed and they cut you open, and then get told in the media (and perhaps inside the club) that you're just not "executing", and the teams full of kids and reserves players are just better? Of course we don't know but I doubt Richo is telling the players in meetings that his strategy is being exposed. Last year Richmond were very transparent internally and it worked for them.

 

[VDS66]

As if any coach would come out and say that in public. Well at least you are a true supporter. Giving up because you don't like the coach.

Mentioned this on another thread...

Judd was talking about Carlton on MMM and was asked about Bolton's presser after the loss.

Pretty much said its all scripted and what matters is what goes on inside the club.

Also gave a good analysis of what constitutes a good list with depth. And spoke about the difficulty establishing cohesion throughout the club and on the field due to player inexperience, a revolving door of selection changes, and playing enough games together to get used to each other and gaining trust with each other to execute the game plan.

A welcome perspective on what really goes on.

 

[plugger66]

I think one of the reasons that Richo got the job, is that he is politically correct, and wont rock the boat(compared to Watters who he replaced). I reckon Watters might have had more success in the long term as he didn't mind calling a spade a spade, but the president and board couldn't handle a maverick.

Don't think it would have helped the side when the players all wanted to leave. Watters lost the players and everyone in the club. He had no idea. It is that simple.

 

[Saint Watto]

but the president and board couldn't handle a maverick.

I'm pretty sure they couldn't handle a whack job.

 

[Greg1853]

A lot would have been retiring but the kids would have been developed blanketed by the senior bodies, learnt to win and set training and playing standards.

The good clubs don't bottom out any more and since the Hawks did the full bottom out in the early 2000s not to many successful clubs have come from a long bottom out and come in to win a Premiership. Richmond were a full rebuild in the time of the Hawks rebuild but since have been a middle table side for about 15 years. I think the cats have missed one finals series since we played them in the 2009 GF. They look much closer to the prize than us.

Even the game plan for those good clubs is really well drilled because the older guys can instruct a kid to do exactly what they were doing when they step in. One soldier in one soldier out as they say.

I get what you are saying. Regardless of how we have handled the re-build, the damage came much earlier from the lack of succession planning during when we were up there. I am ok with how we have gone about the re-build, but I get your points

There is no doubt that between swans, hawks and Cats there have been 3 teams that have had a disproportionate amount of time in the Top 4 for the last decade or more.

We actually did pretty well to hang around for several years, as the teams from 04/05 to 09/10 were quite different, although the A graders in both periods were much the same.

 

[Saintbloke]

Don't think it would have helped the side when the players all wanted to leave. Watters lost the players and everyone in the club. He had no idea. It is that simple.

My oil is that it wasn't all the players etc., just a few of the more senior influential players reckoned they knew best and got the finger pointed at them for having big heads and sooked it to the highest level. To be honest I'm only concerned about what's happening now, and I just don't feel that everyone is on the same page, hence the poor start to the season.

 

[plugger66]

My oil is that it wasn't all the players etc., just a few of the more senior influential players reckoned they knew best and got the finger pointed at them for having big heads and sooked it to the highest level. To be honest I'm only concerned about what's happening now, and I just don't feel that everyone is on the same page, hence the poor start to the season.

Your oil isn’t much get.


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[LeonardHayes87]

A person I respect whose involved with the club, not on a full time basis but still close enough to know said the vibe down there is shocking at the moment.

In short:
- Richo too soft on the players
- Players have lost some faith in the leadership and plan going forward
- Riewoldt and Richo relationship was non-existent (Riewoldt not a fan of Alan at all)

My thoughts are this: how does a group of players now aged 22-24 with 60 odd games played go backwards compared to two years ago when they were 19-20? You can't get worse surely? I can't name one player whose going better now than in 16/17.

I put that down to coaching.

 

[Joffaboy]

My oil is that it wasn't all the players etc., just a few of the more senior influential players reckoned they knew best and got the finger pointed at them for having big heads and sooked it to the highest level. To be honest I'm only concerned about what's happening now, and I just don't feel that everyone is on the same page, hence the poor start to the season.

Well you need to change your oil.

Lost all the players, lost the admin and staff.
Riewoldt was gone if he had stayed and he was not the only one.

Watters was useless and cracked. Everyone I have ever spoken to associated with the club (including commentators) said the same thing.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Impatient Saint]

A person I respect whose involved with the club, not on a full time basis but still close enough to know said the vibe down there is shocking at the moment.

In short:
- Richo too soft on the players
- Players have lost some faith in the leadership and plan going forward
- Riewoldt and Richo relationship was non-existent (Riewoldt not a fan of Alan at all)

My thoughts are this: how does a group of players now aged 22-24 with 60 odd games played go backwards compared to two years ago when they were 19-20? You can't get worse surely? I can't name one player whose going better now than in 16/17.

I put that down to coaching.

No surprises that there is something wrong, a group of players don't go backwards unless there are issues.

Riewoldt has been very diplomatic on his comments about Richo and the clubs performances. The fact he hasnt come out and endorsed Richo and the program is telling IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

No surprises that there is something wrong, a group of players don't go backwards unless there are issues.

Riewoldt has been very diplomatic on his comments about Richo and the clubs performances. He has said everything but come out and endorsed Richo and the program which would be human nature if he believed in him.

Young players don't have linear progression and injury and form are things that all players can have effect them. That's why I'm keen on the club doing an external review into the running of the football department. Find out if the coach is an issue. If it's not we find out what the issues are. The idea that you sack he coach just in case is what used to get us into trouble.

 

[VDS66]

Your oil isn’t much get.


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Oils ain't oils...

 

[triggering bro]

Young players don't have linear progression and injury and form are things that all players can have effect them. That's why I'm keen on the club doing an external review into the running of the football department. Find out if the coach is an issue. If it's not we find out what the issues are. The idea that you sack he coach just in case is what used to get us into trouble.

I’m working on the assumption that a full review is something the club does regularly & part of that process is reviewing the head coach & assistant coaches.

I think the AFL & StK FC are professional enough where coaches just don’t get sacked on the back of a hunch or something minor.

If Richo gets punted I’m sure it’ll be for a good & justified reason/s.