Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[VDS66]

I’m working on the assumption that a full review is something the club does regularly & part of that process is reviewing the head coach & assistant coaches.

I think the AFL & StK FC are professional enough where coaches just don’t get sacked on the back of a hunch or something minor.

If Richo gets punted I’m sure it’ll be for a good & justified reason/s.

As it should be. And I can live with that.

 

[Saintbloke]

Well you need to change your oil.

Lost all the players, lost the admin and staff.
Riewoldt was gone if he had stayed and he was not the only one.

Watters was useless and cracked. Everyone I have ever spoken to associated with the club (including commentators) said the same thing.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Watters was so bad that apparently cars nearing the club would take a detour, and birds refused to fly over the ground.. even the tide refused to come in when Watters was near. Luckily everyone else at the club was perfect...

 

[plugger66]

Watters was so bad that apparently cars nearing the club would take a detour, and birds refused to fly over the ground.. even the tide refused to come in when Watters was near. Luckily everyone else at the club was perfect...

No but he was the worst of the lot. No idea why you are sticking up for him for 2 reasons, he isn't there anymore and every bit of evidence suggests he was crazy. We might have been wrong though. He got a job coaching his kids under 13's.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Young players don't have linear progression and injury and form are things that all players can have effect them. That's why I'm keen on the club doing an external review into the running of the football department. Find out if the coach is an issue. If it's not we find out what the issues are. The idea that you sack he coach just in case is what used to get us into trouble.

Its not just the young players who are out form its most of the list. Richo obviously had the players going well in 2016 & 17 so there is hope he can turn things around.

Its difficult to know what is going on from the outside, but I think if Richo displayed he is not perfect but doing his utmost too improve - the players would support that.

 

[VDS66]

Its not just the young players who are out form its most of the list. Richo obviously had the players going well in 2016 & 17 so there is hope he can turn things around.

Its difficult to know what is going on from the outside, but I think if Richo displayed he is not perfect but doing his utmost too improve - the players would support that.

How do you know it's not happening internally?

 

[Impatient Saint]

How do you know it's not happening internally?

I dont - do you?

 

[VDS66]

A person I respect whose involved with the club, not on a full time basis but still close enough to know said the vibe down there is shocking at the moment.

In short:
- Richo too soft on the players
- Players have lost some faith in the leadership and plan going forward
- Riewoldt and Richo relationship was non-existent (Riewoldt not a fan of Alan at all)

My thoughts are this: how does a group of players now aged 22-24 with 60 odd games played go backwards compared to two years ago when they were 19-20? You can't get worse surely? I can't name one player whose going better now than in 16/17.

I put that down to coaching.

I know a couple of ex rookies who said Roo never spoke to them.

 

[VDS66]

I dont - do you?

Not at all. But I get your point.

 

[gringo2011]

Its not just the young players who are out form its most of the list. Richo obviously had the players going well in 2016 & 17 so there is hope he can turn things around.

Its difficult to know what is going on from the outside, but I think if Richo displayed he is not perfect but doing his utmost too improve - the players would support that.

I would say the bulk of the talent that is off the boil is the middle tier players. Billings, Gresham, Newnes etc are all off the boil. Jack Steven seems to have an ankle and Armos back looks cooked. Koby has had concussion, Longer as much as we all got shitty with his game this year, was at least breaking even with most rucks last year. Bruce, Newness and Billy all missed most of the preseason. Ross isn't getting as much room to move in now Stuv is injured and they can put a stopper on Seb.

I think we played okay since the North game, not good but with the squad we have we have battled on. We don't have a great squad and when we miss any important players we break down. Acres, Dunny, Carlisle, Geary etc are all playing well compared to last year.

 

[VDS66]

I would say the bulk of the talent that is off the boil is the middle tier players. Billings, Gresham, Newnes etc are all off the boil. Jack Steven seems to have an ankle and Armos back looks cooked. Koby has had concussion, Longer as much as we all got shitty with his game this year, was at least breaking even with most rucks last year. Bruce, Newness and Billy all missed most of the preseason. Ross isn't getting as much room to move in now Stuv is injured and they can put a stopper on Seb.

I think we played okay since the North game, not good but with the squad we have we have battled on. We don't have a great squad and when we miss any important players we break down. Acres, Dunny, Carlisle, Geary etc are all playing well compared to last year.

Having 4(?) new players doesn't help.

 

[Significant]

Has this been posted?

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/4/20/something-in-the-water-at-st-kilda

Very very good read

 

[gringo2011]

Has this been posted?

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/4/20/something-in-the-water-at-st-kilda

Very very good read

Ouch, that's damning. Finnis needs to get accountable for this stuff, he's good at the bullshit stuff and doesn't really like the hard work of running the football department. WTF is Lethlean doing, the AFL have stacked us full of failed corporates who are on top dollar and have no interest in making the side work.

We need a board challenge ASAP, what ever we are doing now is poor but that stuff is unforgivable. We need an immediate review and mass sackings. They are taking the piss. They have embarrassed the club and should go somewhere else.

I was pretty unconvinced by the whole challenge idea, but I don't see any other option, we are on the road to a long stint as a bottom 4 club.

 

[austinnn]

Has this been posted?

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/4/20/something-in-the-water-at-st-kilda

Very very good read

Simply damning.

There is so much here - if not everything - that is indefensible, and I agree that it is a Must Read, even if it is depressing.

I only hope the situation at Sandy has vastly improved.

 

[triggering bro]

Has this been posted?

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/4/20/something-in-the-water-at-st-kilda

Very very good read

Incredibly accurate & sure to ruffle a few feathers in these parts.

 

[Nutsngum]

Has this been posted?

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/4/20/something-in-the-water-at-st-kilda

Very very good read

Ummm literally every issue quoted in that with Sandy has been basically rectified with a stronger and more definite alignment, appropriate people either moved on or promoted and if 2 - 0 against strong teams says anything then the players themselves are buying in.

You people are honestly like a bunch of brighton retirees reading the herald sun and freaking out over african gangs in the western suburbs.

 

[triggering bro]

You people are honestly like a bunch of brighton retirees reading the herald sun and freaking out over african gangs in the western suburbs.

Racist. I’m offended.

 

[austinnn]

Ummm literally every issue quoted in that with Sandy has been basically rectified with a stronger and more definite alignment, appropriate people either moved on or promoted and if 2 - 0 against strong teams says anything then the players themselves are buying in.

You people are honestly like a bunch of brighton retirees reading the herald sun and freaking out over african gangs in the western suburbs.

Lol, I get you, but how was it even allowed to become like that in the first place? This is our talent pipeline, the development centre of the next generation of St Kilda, and Richo got his rep on the back of his supposed strength as a teaching coach, surely development is important to him?

And the article also talks about the lopsided list building that was common with the Carlton list while Richo was at the Blooze.

I know Richo's copping shit for everything from his coaching to the way he shines his shoes right now and it's fashionable to hate him, but beyond that there is too much information coming out to ignore.

The club absolutely should get a Neil Balme-style Kent in immediately to do a thorough analysis and action should be taken on the back of it.

 

[austinnn]

I'm going to try and sum up the damning rumours in one post, feel free to add below. These are only recollections as I can't be bothered to actually read back again in all the different threads, so please pull me up on anything I've got wrong.

The information below is of varying quality, some of it is first analysis, other is idle gossip.

* Roo and Richo barely spoke last year.
* Roo thinks that Richo is too soft compared to GT and RTB.
* The Scott twins both regard Richo as a simpleton - and both brothers have strategically outflanked him on game day.
* He has failed to develop many of the players on the cusp of the first 22 so far.
* The players are losing faith in Richo and his methods.
* Richo is too soft on his players.
* During a passionate coaches address, Sam Gilbert was seen to roll his eyes (!) at Nick Riewoldt. Still waiting for that video by the way St Cicatriz.
* Richo and Trout have presided over an uneven list build, with a focus on a particular type of player.
* Dal Santo and Riewoldt have both publicly criticised the game plan n the last week, saying that players are positioned where they've been told to stand rather than where they can win the ball and players are bombing in forward without looking for options.

I get the feeling I've missed a few.

 

[gringo2011]

Ummm literally every issue quoted in that with Sandy has been basically rectified with a stronger and more definite alignment, appropriate people either moved on or promoted and if 2 - 0 against strong teams says anything then the players themselves are buying in.

You people are honestly like a bunch of brighton retirees reading the herald sun and freaking out over african gangs in the western suburbs.

Has it? Winning two games in a row doesn't mean everything is good. Half the team left again last year. All we have done is make the Sandy alignment more like a hostile take over. We still haven't managed to get anything working on field in the seniors which is where the things that matter are.

We are apparently close to a full spend on our off field cap? HTF can that be, we don't have anyone that another team would want as far as support staff go.

I'm so over this club being it's own worst enemy. Anyone with any history with the club should be banned from touching anything. You would think someone was trying to sabotage us sometimes, we get a marquee game and forget to show up, we the number one draft pick and burn it...just everything we do is stupid.

 

[StCicatriz]

Incredibly accurate & sure to ruffle a few feathers in these parts.

remember how i posed that question and you said it was interesting (i think you agreed with me)

that article explains it better than i ever could

here's the kicker though, when malthouse replaced ratten, he always referred to them having a young captain, still learning how to mentor people and play the game. malthouse exited his job and repeated the claim. the captain, marc murphy. marc was 29!!!!

now i dont for a second believe malthouse didnt know murphy's age, but what i reckon mick had a good sense of was public perception. i reckon he knew most viewed their players as forever being in the draft age. forever immature.

i reckon we have the same perception going on right now and unless we snap out of that, there will be a whole host of problems that arise from it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

At the end of 2010 our list was so lopsided, that the damage was done. It was the drafting/trading, etc that we did in the years prior to 2010 that is the reason why we were bound to fall off a cliff, and the reason why we have hardly any mid to late 20's at their physical and mental peak, and being leaders.

Our drafting since 2010 has had some successes and failures, but I still think the overall intention has been great, with the execution being hit and miss. I generally think we got it right in recent years, it just seems we are a bit behind where we want to be in high end talent and physical maturity.

When you say managed one out. Well, didn't we only manage two out - Dal and BJ, and I'd say both those decisions will be viewed as positives. Everyone else stayed at saints until de-listed or retired? I guess you can add McEvoy in, although I see that as partly a player trade that probably went awry. I think we overrated Savage a bit, but were trying to fill gaps.

Dawson ran for the money, and good riddance.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm going to try and sum up the damning rumours in one post, feel free to add below. These are only recollections as I can't be bothered to actually read back again in all the different threads, so please pull me up on anything I've got wrong.

The information below is of varying quality, some of it is first analysis, other is idle gossip.

* Roo and Richo barely spoke last year.
* Roo thinks that Richo is too soft compared to GT and RTB.
* The Scott twins both regard Richo as a simpleton - and both brothers have strategically outflanked him on game day.
* He has failed to develop many of the players on the cusp of the first 22 so far.
* The players are losing faith in Richo and his methods.
* Richo is too soft on his players.
* During a passionate coaches address, Sam Gilbert was seen to roll his eyes (!) at Nick Riewoldt. Still waiting for that video by the way St Cicatriz.
* Richo and Trout have presided over an uneven list build, with a focus on a particular type of player.
* Dal Santo and Riewoldt have both publicly criticised the game plan n the last week, saying that players are positioned where they've been told to stand rather than where they can win the ball and players are bombing in forward without looking for options.

I get the feeling I've missed a few.

its there. i can see if the game can be torrented from somewhere. but it exists. why would i make it up?

 

[gringo2011]

remember how i posed that question and you said it was interesting (i think you agreed with me)

that article explains it better than i ever could

here's the kicker though, when malthouse replaced ratten, he always referred to them having a young captain, still learning how to mentor people and play the game. malthouse exited his job and repeated the claim. the captain, marc murphy. marc was 29!!!!

now i dont for a second believe malthouse didnt know murphy's age, but what i reckon mick had a good sense of was public perception. i reckon he knew most viewed their players as forever being in the draft age. forever immature.

i reckon we have the same perception going on right now and unless we snap out of that, there will be a whole host of problems that arise from it.

Yeah lots of players are getting into the early to mid 20s when they should be at their best and starting their peak. Only they aren't. I've been thinking we need to give the board time to implement their plan, now i think we need reviews done immediately and start getting the payouts ready for a whole lot of them.

 

[austinnn]

Ouch, that's damning. Finnis needs to get accountable for this stuff, he's good at the bullshit stuff and doesn't really like the hard work of running the football department. WTF is Lethlean doing, the AFL have stacked us full of failed corporates who are on top dollar and have no interest in making the side work.

We need a board challenge ASAP, what ever we are doing now is poor but that stuff is unforgivable. We need an immediate review and mass sackings. They are taking the piss. They have embarrassed the club and should go somewhere else.

I was pretty unconvinced by the whole challenge idea, but I don't see any other option, we are on the road to a long stint as a bottom 4 club.

Maybe Lethlean is conducting a review in fact and the public just haven't been notified. Surely he'd be qualified for such a task?

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe Lethlean is conducting a review in fact and the public just haven't been notified. Surely he'd be qualified for such a task?

If the review was of breast groping or shagging in a corporate box. Gil just got his mate a job when he got too embarrassing for the AFL to keep. He's just killing time until enough passes. He's started sitting in the box so people know he actually does something. Guys like Lethlean are ex lawyer flogs who just come up with concepts then wave a hand and expect underlings to execute them. Same as Finnis, lets get Peta Searle in then just give her a token role, lets start being friends to everyone and not really worry about football. Vanilla board, vanilla coaching staff, vanilla list.