Autopsy Game is long over, Swans were putrid

[Dubai Quacker]

Not sure why you all crack the shits at Brandon Jack

You telling me some ex hack writes an article and that brings the whole gameplan down

No - but the last thing we need after a crushing loss is a smug ex-reserve grader bleating that he’s a guru prophet.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Honestly, if you think that Brandon Jack had anything at all to do with what happened then you need to take a deep breath or two. I can't believe you think that opposition coaches are following him for his input and couldn't work it out for themselves. Fair dinkum.

The only bloke that thinks Brandon Jack has anything to do with it is Brandon Jack.

I know some here admire his writings - but jumping on twitter with smug musings about his ex-club & his own brilliance immediately after a crushing loss is poor form.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Honestly, if you think that Brandon Jack had anything at all to do with what happened then you need to take a deep breath or two. I can't believe you think that opposition coaches are following him for his input and couldn't work it out for themselves. Fair dinkum.

What what did BJ do?

 

[MR0808]

What what did BJ do?

Nothing when he played with us.

 

[Punts]

Ladder really has been flipped for us

I can’t see how that happens , you don’t just loose talent.

It’s a little concerning to be honest

Something has to be up

Yiu don’t just drop off like the last 2

 

[Crust]

LONG POST INCOMING

Three main thoughts I had out of last night...

The Big Three (at hurting team unity)
There is just this toxicity, for lack of better words, around the quote-unquote stars of the team.

All throughout the off-season I said I wanted us to lean into the hype more. Be less closed off to external attention and instead learn to embrace it. Try and make as many of our players "stars" as possible, so that if they are lucky enough to get to a grand final, they will be more comfortable in that spotlight than ever before. I still think that's the name of the game in the 2020s. Look at the sheer FIGJAM oozing out of Brisbane and Hawthorn and the Bulldogs as they've stormed home. The more big-headed Hawthorn have become, and the more they've embraced the "Write us off at your peril" narrative of their season's arc, the better they have actually played.

We had a bit of that going on earlier in the season. The problem is that it was SO focused on only three players: Heeney, Warner and Gulden. Even though they were far from the only three deserving of the star treatment (#JusticeForRowbottom), the whole "big three" hype just became so completely inescapable that I find it hard to believe it wouldn't have penetrated through the media wall and gotten into the four walls of the club. Especially when every Swan who was interviewed was asked about the "big three."

What I think it has done has had a detrimental effect on the rest of our players, and even the "big three" themselves. Feels like so many have dropped away now and think they can just leave it to the "big three" because they're soooo dominant and soooo spectacular. But then the "big three" have also dropped away, because they were only ever as good as everyone else made them look.

In that sense, the real team aspect of our performances has all but evaporated. We just look to get it to Gulden as much as possible, even if he's not the right option, because duhhh he's our best kick. Warner is allowed to just burn teammates regularly and everyone else has to accept that, because duhhh he's the tackle-breaker.

And it's not even just them. Blakey is our excitement machine off half back, so it seems like no one else is willing to take any risks off half back, because they can just leave that to Blakey. Rowbottom is our best tackler by a mile, so everyone's like oh just leave the defensive stuff and pressure efforts to Rowbottom.

We look like a team of individuals - many of whom have become convinced they can be carried by a few; and a few who are finding out the hard way they need the many to carry them.

Horse's Limit (...does exist)
There are probably 17 clubs in the competition that would love to have Horse's record and the "problems" that come with it. And what those problems are have been well-documented.

That said, watching Horse's interviews in recent weeks has conjured certain images to me.

Antony and Cleopatra after the Battle of Actium. Hitler in the Führerbunker. Davy Crockett at the Alamo.

A once-powerful leader who has, finally, run out of answers; who has no way out.

Horse's admission that they've tried many different things to fix the first quarters and none have worked is startling. That's the kind of helplessness that has usually preluded a coach's sacking.

Will Horse be sacked? Almost certainly not. Will he find the answers though? I don't know. But he'd want to, and quickly, because we are literally pissing away such a strong, dominant opportunity at a flag tilt. How bad a shape does a club have to be in to do this?

Well, I'll tell you how...

Port Adelaide in 2014. At round 14, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 11-2. They then went 3-6 and failed to make a grand final, and it preluded a five-year run without Port even being in the top four.

Fremantle in 2015. At round 14, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going 12-1. They then went a very average 5-4, failed to make a grand final, and it preluded their drop down the ladder the following year, finishing 16th and ending up with a six-year abyss of no-finals.

North Melbourne in 2016. At round 12, they were a game clear on top of the ladder after going 10-2. They then went 2-9 for the rest of the season and were bundled out in the first week of finals. It preluded their descent into an eight-year abyss of no-finals that they are still in.

Melbourne in 2022. At round 10, they were two games clear on top of the ladder after going an absurd 10-0. They then went 6-7 for the rest of the season, lost in straight sets, and haven't won a final since. They're now 12th and look done as a team.

Having such huge winning streaks and domination over the competition is an impressive thing, but with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that choking away that stronghold on the competition is a concerning thing that suggests there's something more sinister happening with a team's culture that is only exposed in the years following.

So this is why Parker starting as sub, Warner Jr. being scapegoated as sub, Ladhams being played in the same team as Grundy & McLean, the selection of Francis, Wicks etc. just doesn't concern me.

They're all individual selections that are window-dressings to a much greater issue, which is that this team is clearly just ****ed right now, and Horse is responsible for that. Clearly Horse has managed this season horribly. Either from a player management perspective, burning the playing group out by the halfway point of a 25-round season. Or from a team morale perspective, failing to mentally ground a playing group that was almost four games clear on top of the ladder. Or from an on-field strategic perspective, having seemingly no solutions for a game plan that it appears everyone is now able to easily nullify.

If Horse doesn't correct course on this broader issue then any selection or non-selection or mis-use of a player won't make a blip of difference.

Am I any better?
...is the question I asked myself as I sat there pondering my criticisms of Horse. No, I am not. That is the most frustrating thing. I have literally no idea where the answers lie and where the solution comes from.

I feel like we're hamstrung somewhat by a huge portion of our list that might as well have an 'OUT OF ORDER' sign on their foreheads. Konstanty, Sheldrick, Vickery, Edwards, Hamling, Cleary, Kirk, Magor, Mitchell, Arnold, Snell, McAndrew all feel like they are in another realm, like the idea of them playing in an AFL game feels simply delusional and otherworldly. Horse has shown almost no inclination to give any of these guys a go this year, and whilst that is understandable, I really don't know what it will take for Horse to turn towards them. Give one of them a go. It feels like they serve no purpose on the list but to take up spots and fill our VFL side.

I can't remember a year where we've had such a lack of "squad mentality", and again, that's understandable when you're 13-1. But not when you're 1-4 over the last five weeks and look like absolute dogshit with a group of players who truly look like they couldn't give a crap and have forgotten how to play footy.

I also can't imagine that that lack of "squad mentality" is conducive to squad harmony when it feels like there are very clear lines between the haves and have-nots.

Maybe we need to tell Gulden, Warner, Blakey etc. that their All Australian spots are at risk (which they should be - shouldn't be giving out awards like that based on half seasons.) The individual accolades seems to be all they are after anyway. It sure as heck ain't doing what's best for the team.

After that? I'm stumped...

It is clearly a mental problem.
A thought - all that care they talked about earlier.
Being vulnerable. "Hey mate I'm struggling to get a kick. I need help" etc. That seems to have broken down.
Maybe return to it.
Of course they are all struggling to get a kick, but if, say, Heeney has to take responsibility for getting Warner into the game, and Warner is responsible for Gulden, who is responsible for Jordon, who is responsible for Hayward who is responsible for etc, etc.
So rather than think, "I need to put in more effort", instead "I need to put in effort to get player x into the game".
The idea is therefore not 18 individual effort lifts, but the effort is team centred. Everyone is backed and has someone's back. Maybe something will switch on.
Further, the responsibility is not just to give them a handball or whatever, but to talk. We made very many dumb decisions. Jordon passing 5m to Chad - but who was in Jordon's ear saying "take your shot mate".
Logan kicking across the ground (intercepted) rather than down the left where there were two Swans free. Who was talking to Logan? Who was his eyes saying "go left"?
Ladhams needs more talk than anyone because he doesn't have a brain. Blakey I think kicked out, Ladhams was unmarked and he punched it. Ladhams under pressure one metre from goal and handballs to a Port player who goals. Who was telling him what to do?
Rather than supporting, Gulden is giving his teammates a spray for not passing to him.
My abiding memory of the Dogs game was constantly seeing 4 Swans chase 1 Dog. Of course that means 3 free Dogs but who was saying "X you chase Dog A , Y pick up dog B and I'll take C". The Bont was unmarked at a ball up 20 m out from goal. Needless to say that was his first goal. How does that happen. Who was directing?
A gazillion poor disposals because of Port pressure. Pick up the ball and you have a nano second to dispose of it. Watching the ball to pick it up means the player has no vision and no time to assess options. Therefore his teammates have to do this for him.
The more I think about it the more I think it starts with the talk.

If Mills is a general he must play back in the absence of Rampe.
When Rampe is back Mills should play forward and organise them. I'm no expert in forward craft but maybe he could say perhaps "make a fn lead!", and "move!"
Rowbottom and Gulden can take care of the mids, but it is incumbent on everyone to talk.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

You’re all kidding yourselves if you think that a team featuring

• Absent Aaron Francis
• Halfwit Pete Ladhams
• and an unprepared Corey Warner

has any business at all in AFLM.

There’s a filthy stench of self entitled, bruise free footy creeping in to some of the flashier players, which a club can get away with if you’re constantly getting first use. But when first use dries up due to pressure acts, then so does the game plan

 

[J_Moore]

Something has to be up

Yiu don’t just drop off like the last 2

Yeah something is amiss.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Can someone just let me know when I’m allowed to demand Gus be selected?

Won’t happen - but honestly, at what point do we try?

And as for recruiting a premiership defender & then promptly turning him into a mediocre forward at VFL level (whilst our defence gets monstered) ….. words fail me.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Melican would not have done a damn thing yesterday no defender can with 70 inside 50's

Agree with this. Definitely not implying we would've won with him in the side. However, we would've been structurally better with him (and Rampe) and at an individual level, be infinitely better than Francis. Perhaps instead of the 112 point defeat, might’ve kept it under 100?

 

[J_Moore]

My abiding memory of the Dogs game was constantly seeing 4 Swans chase 1 Dog. Of course that means 3 free Dogs but who was saying "X you chase Dog A , Y pick up dog B and I'll take C". The Bont was unmarked at a ball up 20 m out from goal. Needless to say that was his first goal. How does that happen. Who was directing?
A gazillion poor disposals because of Port pressure. Pick up the ball and you have a nano second to dispose of it. Watching the ball to pick it up means the player has no vision and no time to assess options. Therefore his teammates have to do this for him.
The more I think about it the more I think it starts with the talk.

This gets to the heart of it reckon - cohesion is gone and trust is gone, and that’s mutually reinforcing.

I don’t think effort has gone, but you’ve got a lot of guys running around like headless chooks.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Agree with this. Definitely not implying we would've won with him in the side. However, we would've been structurally better with him (and Rampe) and at an individual level, be infinitely better than Francis. Perhaps instead of the 112 point defeat, might’ve kept it under 100?

Yer Rampe and Melican may of saved 3-4 goals but this has escalated far beyond just missing a few players, this has potential if not rectified to continue well into 2025 and beyond.

72-0 against a mediocre side i think for some its probably not sunk in yet, 35-1 against a side that was in 9th 2 weeks ago.

Pies have shown way more fight and heart with a much bigger injury list ditto Brisbane how many ACL's did they suffer early in the season?

 

[caesar88]

This might be a bit of an unfair call out, but it's arguably not even that harsh and maybe even a compliment.

I wish James Rowbottom

8

James Rowbottom

Age

23

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.6

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.2

4star

had a different personality.

The way he plays and goes about it is literally exactly what we don't have enough of, and what everyone else in the team needs to be following. Not saying he was great last night, because he wasn't, but he was one of the only ones who was giving his all and putting his body on the line. At one point he came off really sore because he let himself get crunched by three Port players just to contest a ball in dispute. This at a point in the game when we were about 80 points down.

And we know he does this week in, week out, regardless of circumstance. We speak about the Bloods culture, is it or isn't it a myth. It feels like he's pretty much the only guy in our team who "gets it."

However he was described to me from a reliable source as "deferential" and a "laid-back guy." The kind who just turns up, does his job, and goes home with no fuss. Doesn't have the ego to pull anyone up on their BS or say enough is enough, you lot can follow my example now.

And that is a shame, because if he was, I think he'd be a transformative figure at our club.

Imagine what he could impart on the others... about fronting up every single week, about sticking tackles, about playing selfless, team-first footy, about giving repeat efforts, about putting your body on the line, about being physically aggressive but controlled in that aggression, rather than silly and undisciplined with it. I mean FFS, he was voted the most courageous player in the competition. If anyone is put on a pedestal within our club, it should be him.

Instead I think it's too easy for him to just fade to the background and become the guy designated to deliver on those things, and he just says no worries coach and does it. It becomes less a case of "Let's follow Rowy's example" and more a case of "Rowy does those things so that we don't have to."

Even the language out of his teammates is kinda cooked when you think about it. "He does all the hard stuff." Ummm... like tackling, chasing, being hard, physical, and just generally giving a shit? It's very telling and a bit disturbing that these are things that have become negotiable and only certain players in the team have to take care of.

However I'm not excusing Rowbottom himself. He has to take the onus upon himself to be that figure for this team and try to turn things around. If he doesn't and is waiting for others to make that change happen, then he's ultimately as culpable as the rest.

Sorry for the rant. Just concerned about the identity of our team at present. Something's gotta change.

 

[Swans22]

I think the style we play when successful early in the season does not work when players are down on form.

It is quick ball movement through the middle catching the other team's defence out of position, running players providing options and surging team pressure around the ball.

But now we can't move the ball very well, there is not much run and the lack of pressure upfield leaves our defence exposed. (as well as to turnovers from not being able to execute risky kicks.)

Exactly. Nailed it.
There has been talk that we have been worked out, there is an element of this however I believe that our game style is incredibly hard to shut down when our intensity, pressure and confidence is up.

 

[Punts]

Watching them

They are not working for each other , running hard.

To collapse like the last 2 to be almost non competitive and getting absolutely flogged , not just loses it makes me wonder what’s up

 

[Swans22]

Melican would not have done a damn thing yesterday no defender can with 70 inside 50's

He wouldn’t have won us a game but he would have squared several contests that Blakey and Francis couldn’t. Rampe much the same.

 

[Kbroome]

Yer Rampe and Melican may of saved 3-4 goals but this has escalated far beyond just missing a few players, this has potential if not rectified to continue well into 2025 and beyond.

72-0 against a mediocre side i think for some its probably not sunk in yet, 35-1 against a side that was in 9th 2 weeks ago.

Pies have shown way more fight and heart with a much bigger injury list ditto Brisbane how many ACL's did they suffer early in the season?

Its because so many were happy to back in the win streak to let the players gain form. Ruthless teams that win it all from the start to the finish are cut throat. We have no forward depth and no trusted KPD defence. I think some other fans from other clubs have said it but there is no point having all these "potential" guys in the VFL to gain experience year on year because the AFL is a different experience in its self. Need to be ruthless in the offseason and so not again to a lot of the experience but no quality players

 

[Swans22]

Watching them

They are not working for each other , running hard.

To collapse like the last 2 to be almost non competitive and getting absolutely flogged , not just loses it makes me wonder what’s up

It’s all effort, intensity and confidence.
Hopefully with 3 or 4 teams close to knocking us out of the 4 we’ll realise the stakes and wake the f up

 

[Punts]

71-0

Can’t get my head around it to be Honest

A lot of teams have had injuries and still compete

Loins and pies have had more than us

 

[MR0808]

71-0

Can’t get my head around it to be Honest

A lot of teams have had injuries and still compete

Loins and pies have had more than us

We're always going to be that team...

 

[caesar88]

Can someone just let me know when I’m allowed to demand Gus be selected?

Won’t happen - but honestly, at what point do we try?

And as for recruiting a premiership defender & then promptly turning him into a mediocre forward at VFL level (whilst our defence gets monstered) ….. words fail me.

I would argue this week. Or Cleary, depending on how they train (really sucky week for the VFL to have a bye.) It doesn't appear like Parker or Adams are the answer in this regard.

Have said for a long time now that Warner in the midfield is a wasted spot. He's an elite player in pretty much every facet EXCEPT the contest, which is a constant vulnerability of ours.

I would play him and maybe even Heeney forward. Rewire the whole midfield, even if only for a week, just to force something, create a spark, give Heeney a rest, anything.

Play an ACTUAL MIDFIELDER - someone with actual inside craft, know-how when it comes to working in traffic, competing for contested balls, how ruckmen work, etc. - in Warner's place.

It won't take away from Warner's game and if anything will give him more opportunities to show his brilliance and less opportunities to make us fans want to tear our hair out, all the while giving someone else an opportunity to see how they can fit into our midfield mix.

 

[TheMase]

Agree with this. Definitely not implying we would've won with him in the side. However, we would've been structurally better with him (and Rampe) and at an individual level, be infinitely better than Francis. Perhaps instead of the 112 point defeat, might’ve kept it under 100?

And then the midfield has more confidence to run forward of the ball to connect with each other.

It’s all linked.

 

[liz]

This gets to the heart of it reckon - cohesion is gone and trust is gone, and that’s mutually reinforcing.

I don’t think effort has gone, but you’ve got a lot of guys running around like headless chooks.

Not sure if this totally explains what we saw yesterday but it’s a large part of it.

As the panic increased, so did the number of players getting sucked to every contest. In defence they mostly got in each others way, or didn’t actually contest a contest because just being in the vicinity seemed to be enough. (It wasn’t.) And, of course, once Port won possession they had players in space so we were chasing all night.

And when we did actually manage to rebound the ball out of defence we had no structure upfield. Or if we did have a one-on-one (or two) we didn’t take the care to kick vaguely in the direction of that player.

I’m not one for blaming the coaches in general, but I do think much of yesterday was down to them. Or alternatively, they need to find the solution. They need to reprogramme the structure and organisation.

 

[ashep]

So now some are upset the team weren't frogmarched onto the ****ing redeye?

 

[Superstar swan]

I really hope the first quartet was the aberration and horse gave the instruction to not get out of 2nd gear, we gave 30% up our sleeve just get through without injury once the game was over after the first 10 mins.