No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[DangerousD]

Defend themselves?

Right now both coaches could come out and state " I vehemently deny all the allegations"

I doubt they could deny all the allegations, as in my opinion, lots of the allegations will have elements or be mostly true. The issue will be why did Clarkson, Fabian and others act they way they did and how did they make these decisions. There’s too many accusations here to come out and deny everything like it didn’t happen.

There is some things in the report today that I see as being nothing out of the ordinary, if there is context involved, there is stuff like telling players to abort their partners pregnancy that I can’t diminish.

Pretty hard for people to deny allegations when they haven’t seen the report or know who has made the claims.

 

[bigm386]

I have no doubt the allegations are likely true, but not requesting a response from Fagan or Clarkson before publishing it's an absolute journalistic question mark. Very bizarre.

My take on it was the scope of the report was to interview past and present First Nation people not do a wider review.

The article did go suggest they put questions to those names but no reply. Considering the report was with the Hawks and likely the AFL for two weeks I'd suggest the AFL would have made a statement after the GF.

Today was probably the last day the story could be broken pre the public holiday and GF period.

 

[katmanblue]

Goyder and McLachlan need to take responsibility

The AFL have had plenty of warning signs that issues surrounding Indigenous people were not being properly considered, yet little has been done to ensure Indigenous people have a real voice in the game.

www.theage.com.au

Good article.

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[Arr0w]

I doubt they could deny all the allegations, as in my opinion, lots of the allegations will have elements or be mostly true. The issue will be why did Clarkson, Fabian and others act they way they did and how did they make these decisions. There’s too many accusations here to come out and deny everything like it didn’t happen.

There is some things in the report today that I see as being nothing out of the ordinary, if there is context involved, there is stuff like telling players to abort their partners pregnancy that I can’t diminish.

Pretty hard for people to deny allegations when they haven’t seen the report or know who has made the claims.

Personally, I think the allegations are way too detailed for it to be fictitious, but the way it was delivered may be challenged

Very delicate circumstances

 

[passmark]

Consider the usual consequences for
a) whistle blowers
b) indigenous players who stick up for themselves.

Then ask yourself why would they bring this up?
Trust me, there’s absolutely nothing in it for the players involved except heartache.

Clarkson, Fagan and the other stooge? The rewards have been great.

I know who to believe.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Reckon if both totally exonerated (which i think does seem very unlikely) the PR damage is done, and both will not coach again. Both Brisbane and North would lose very valuable sponsors and corporate support if they retain Fagan and Clarkson.

 

[passmark]

Reckon if both totally exonerated (which i think does seem very unlikely) the PR damage is done, and both will not coach again. Both Brisbane and North would lose very valuable sponsors and corporate support if they retain Fagan and Clarkson.

**** ‘em.

 

[DangerousD]

Personally, I think the allegations are way too detailed for it to be fictitious, but the way it was delivered may be challenged

Very delicate circumstances

The article today has allegations from 3 players, out of how many? I found the story hard to read and I don’t doubt the allegations, I do doubt the detail of the allegations and that is what will decide the seriousness of the allegations.

We have allegations of the club trying to get player/s to break ties with family, I don’t see this as being an issue if the family are violent, drug addicts, alcoholics, murders, rapists or a whole host of things. We don’t know the details of the family backgrounds and why they would do this.

I’m sure the people involved would have thought they were acting in the players best interest.

We have 3 players with partners or ex partners making claims against the club and it’s possible their version of events differs from people on the opposite side.

Its Not as easy as just believing someone’s story, in light of this story a friend of mine was telling me today about conversations she had with Anthony McDonald-Tippingwutis foster mother and the abuse and harassment she copped from Anthony’s birth parents and family as they firmly believed she had stolen their son and turned him against them, this caused him and his foster mother lots of stress.

If you were take their version of events, Im sure you would get a different story.

I hope we do a review and make sure we make get our house sorted and hopefully some positive change comes from the allegations today

 

[Blues_1864]

Personally, I think the allegations are way too detailed for it to be fictitious, but the way it was delivered may be challenged

Very delicate circumstances

There are some ominous undertones in the article. Numerous references to supporting documentation, like "emails and notes as the day unfolded". That's Jackson warning Clarkson, Fagan et al. that if they try to lie their way out of this, he will blow them out of the water. I'm sure he has plenty of direct dirty laundry that he will air if he needs to.

Obliquities are the only thing that will save them. Clarkson has already started this process, by denying any wrongdoing whilst also NOT denying any of the allegations in the story. Those two positions are difficult for me to reconcile, but possibly not for Clarkson.

My main fear is that we are just going to see a progressive muddying of the waters from here on in, and no meaningful change.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The article today has allegations from 3 players, out of how many? I found the story hard to read and I don’t doubt the allegations, I do doubt the detail of the allegations and that is what will decide the seriousness of the allegations.

We have allegations of the club trying to get player/s to break ties with family, I don’t see this as being an issue if the family are violent, drug addicts, alcoholics, murders, rapists or a whole host of things. We don’t know the details of the family backgrounds and why they would do this.

I’m sure the people involved would have thought they were acting in the players best interest.

We have 3 players with partners or ex partners making claims against the club and it’s possible their version of events differs from people on the opposite side.

Its Not as easy as just believing someone’s story, in light of this story a friend of mine was telling me today about conversations she had with Anthony McDonald-Tippingwutis foster mother and the abuse and harassment she copped from Anthony’s birth parents and family as they firmly believed she had stolen their son and turned him against them, this caused him and his foster mother lots of stress.

If you were take their version of events, Im sure you would get a different story.

I hope we do a review and make sure we make get our house sorted and hopefully some positive change comes from the allegations today

If Matt Rendell didn't survive his job at the Crows cause of his ignorant and distasteful comments about Aboriginal Draftees, I can't see how Clarkson or Fagan can keep their respective jobs either.

I really cannot see under circumstance or context could any of these comments or actions could be understandably or justified from either Clarkson or Fagan.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[My Hat]

Regarding the "why didn't the review get the coaches' side" comments: I don't think it was that kind of review. Sounds like it was just about discovering what the experience was like for Indigenous players at the club, and the people doing the review weren't given a brief to conduct a more thorough investigation, possibly because the club didn't expect anything of this magnitude to emerge.

Now that the allegations have been made, the AFL is putting together the proper investigation that is required.

 

[DangerousD]

If Matt Rendell didn't survive his job at the Crows cause of his ignorant and distasteful comments about Aboriginal Draftees, I can't see how Clarkson or Fagan can keep their respective jobs either.

I really cannot see under circumstance or context could any of these comments or actions could be understandably or justified from either Clarkson or Fagan.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Its been mentioned many times today that more information has come to light, then it’s going to be very interesting to see what comes about.

Theres lots of allegations in the story today and each allegation is different in severity, ranging from what I think is reasonable to insane and it will be good to do an actual investigation

As in lots of aspects in life whether it be getting in to a fight, breaking up with a partner, losing your job, getting delisted from a football club, the story will be vastly different depending on which side your listening to.

There would be no problem if most of what’s being said is true, both being sacked, it would also be very naive to think lots of other clubs wouldn’t have similar issues.

 

[Wickzki]

Be interesting to know how long they were given to respond before publication.

Family says that Hawthorn knew the findings would come out prior to the end of the home and away season.

That doesn't directly answer your question but it gives me cause to think that it would have been about that time and not that the request came through at the eleventh hour.

 

[azlou]

Personally, I think the allegations are way too detailed for it to be fictitious, but the way it was delivered may be challenged

Very delicate circumstances

The allegations seem to pass the pub test the intricacies of motivations from all parties will be questioned but the involvement of the accused in private relationships seem to be reliable there will be variations on the various truths
But the way I see it is none of the accused have any relevant expertise or skills to intervene in a private relationship
These are extremely serious charges if it was completely fabricated the outrage from accused parties would be commensurate to the charges

 

[Mondyboy]

I see the North board is gradually moving toward the “Jackson is going to need to lawyer-up” stage in the process. I can understand why. They’ve had a miserable last few years and the moment there’s hope it’s being abruptly snatched away from them. It’s still disheartening to see more than a few of them describe it as a stitch up.


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[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Truly deplorable events.
They come as no surprise whatsoever.
I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Kramer1]

I really cannot see under circumstance or context could any of these comments or actions could be understandably or justified from either Clarkson or Fagan.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

A fine thing you aren't part of the review then.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Just think some people, no actually most wanted this guy to be our coach. I know in the end, it will be nothing to see here from the AFL and everything will be swept well but talk about dodging a bullet.

 

[Garters]

Yes, but they have been the only people asked so far.
Not downplaying the racial aspect, most likely that's what it is. But probably better to wait and see what comes from the full investigation.

It wasn't a case of only asking indigenous players. It was off the back of one of these players concerned coming forward re their treatment. Hawthorn board ordered a full external review off the back of this ex player coming forward. The review ordered was to investigate the treatment of their Indigenous players, their indigenous support mechanisms etc. What the external report uncovered was far beyond what they expected and subsequently had to inform the AFL's integrity commission. The AFL is now engaging their own full external broader deeper review. Will be interesting what it uncovers. From all angles very hard not to prosecute it as anything else but differing (appalling) treatment based on racial assumptions. I think there is a lot more to play out on this.

 

[branedotorg]

Be interesting to know how long they were given to respond before publication.

I heard Monday am, published on Wednesday

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

A fine thing you aren't part of the review then.

Meh.

Time will tell, but I am fairly confident the review/investigation is not going to show either Fagan or Clarkson in a positive light.

There is no way the journalist would have went ahead with his story if he wasn't sure he had significant and compelling testimony to proceed with it.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Clarkson is a dog. This doesn't surprise me. We dodged a bullet it seems.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

.

 

[RPCB]

.

Eddie McGuire on the panel talking about racism. He’s about the last person on planet earth who should have been there. Read the room Channel 9 ffs.

 

[bigm386]

I'll just leave this here: