Rumour GFC 2022 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists PT2

[CoolCat75]

Don’t think it’s too hard to see how Geelong affords this.

Dahlhaus was on $500k per year.
This now goes to Bowes x 4 years

Higgins and Selwood were probably on about $800K combined.
This now goes to Bruhn and Henry.

Some existing players might be getting increases, while the likes of Hawkins, Tuohy and Smith might be getting slightly less. That’s is what you call a well managed salary cap, and is our competitive advantage.


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[CoolCat75]

I don’t begrudge any Hawks supporter being disappointed the missed Bowes, but the salty conspiracy statements of a few posters are amusing.

“They may have to split that 7 gift Hocking found them before he quit his role overseeing the salary caps of all clubs and becoming Geelong CEO”

“Yep. The AFL has helped the Premier do a single year rebuild.”

“If you believe the reports, Geelong where into Bowes all year - maybe true, but most likely Hocking got a heads up from his mates at AFL that GC had a s**t $hitoad of salary and Bowes was getable with a massive bonus attached.”

 

[Pivo]

It's amazing how many commenting either don't understand, don't know or just completely forget that the only reason Bowes is owed approx $1.6 million over the next two years is because GC renegotiated his contract so that it was backend to this extent

So not sure why we're suddenly the bad ones if we offer him an extended contract and even out the balance - how about blaming GC for ******* up in the first place


It's the same as those bitching about him wanting out & "youngsters wanting out from struggling teams to go elsewhere rather than sticking out out" - and it being very clearly pointed at Bowes. Do those claiming that crap not realise that in cases like Bowes, it's the club who's essentially pushing him out the door due to their own mismanagement

Hmmm, Taylor Adams selected by GWS at pick 13 in the 2011 Draft. 2 years later he lobs at Collingwood (basically in exchange for Heath Shaw...but iirc there was some ill will between Shaw and Collingwood at the time).

Carlton grabbed Setterfield after 1 or 2 years, Marchbank & Kennedy after a couple of seasons and Plowman after 3 from GWS while Docherty was at the Lions for 2 years.

Tom Boyd famously left GWS after a year and joined the Dogs AND he was a #1 pick.

Our good mates Hawthorn managed to land O'Rourke after he eked out a couple of years in Greater Western Sydney, Jack Gunston from the Crows after 2 years, O'Meara from the Suns after, what, 2-3 years and Scrimshaw after 2 years...

There are multiple examples of clubs benefitting from "those damn young 'uns not sticking it out". People seem to have short memories.

The saltiness comes from the fact we grabbed Bowes (who actually has been at the Suns for 6 years so has stuck it out a bit longer than a few others) along with the reported pick 7 right after winning the flag for (and we don't yet know this) "peanuts".

Anyone remember much commentary about Will Brodie last year which was basically the same sort of thing. Freo got Brodie, pick 19, pick 61 and pick 69 and gave up their 2022 second rounder and 4th rounder...tidy bit of business by Freo.

 

[Mr Meow]

I’d say the reverse. 2022 was the outlier and he was remarkably consistent the others years. 2018 being his best year when he kicked 20+.

It's too difficult in general to rank truncated years. 2016, 2019 and 2022 he averaged 9 games a season. One as a newbie and two very injury interrupted. 2017, 2018, 2020 and 2021 are the main ones to assess. I think 2021 let him down a little. At 30 could he find his best form again? It's not impossible.

I wouldn't see him pushing out Miers though. MOC played plenty of games this season that Menegola could if you ramped Duncan/Touhy's defensive minutes up just a bit.

 

[TheAthlete]

We have just won the flag...

Life is good down the Cattery and KP way.....

And now people want to come home...

PT 2 is in play rolled over from Pt 1

GO Catters

Oh come on you gotta chuck pick 7 in there for us hahahaha

 

[Spearman]

I agree with PO on Neale. I was at the Power game in Adelaide when he played. I am thinking he is a replacement for Blitz in a few years after helping bridge the ruck till Conway is full time no 1 ruck. Neale is an exciting player, and in a game Chris Scott quoted after the GF as a crucial one for the team and our system, Neale looked like he belonged and ran everywhere. Perhaps he could be our next hybrid ruck/ruck rover - very rare to get one anytime, and we have Blitz to teach him.

if that eventuates, we'll need a better name for the role when the rest of the league tries to copy it.

Oh, and if they could weave Geelong or Cats in the name

 

[Vivy]

I think the hard thing to define is the benefit of Clark over those we have.... and only those that know them up close would know. The number of mids we have brought in... we shoudl really go for Jefferson or Cadman if he was there. If we get Bruhn I think id prefer a different type of mid like Mackenzie or Humpfrey ... but I jist wonder is it like with Selwood. We were stocked with mids when we drafted him too.

In the end I will just trust their judgement. No matter who they pick , the rarity of it means we really cant afford for them to fail or to want be like Jordan Clark. They have to be happy here and willing to be a centre piece

The in and under mid is in over supply. Brownlow medallists are struggling to find good homes.

Can't help but think we can find something approximating what Clark provides for a 2nd rounder in a trade in the coming years, or development from within.

It's very difficult to find the taller, damaging mids, or KP players in the AFL that are up for trade or can be recruited in FA.

I love the look of a Phillipou, or Humphrey. I'm quite a poor judge of young talent however

 

[Stokey]

DKing was unhappy on the trade show tonight. He was talking about bans for the top 4 sides trading or something like that.

Its sort of what happens when a theory balloon breaks.... a lot of hot air escapes. Geelong cant do this or that after winning. flag against the defined model...etc.


If we want to we change the system ... a player of certain standard gets rated as a certain number of points rather than based on what they are prepared to play for. Watch that system melt like hot butter when they try it....

Have people not paid attention at what happens when a socialist system is introduced.

The current system is stopping the lower teams from moving forward. North has been really good financially and haven't been reckless like the expansion clubs. They have had the capital but there are two many barriers to utilising their good management.

Maybe let a club pay two marquee players outside the cap whatever they want. $2mill no worries. If you can fund them you can have them. If you go insolvent you lose points.

Drop free agency to 5 or 6 years as well with no trading required.

There are just too many compromises in the draft and cap system. Needs to be a massive overhaul.

But let's wait a few years shall we.

 

[Strange Cat]

Don’t think it’s too hard to see how Geelong affords this.

Dahlhaus was on $500k per year.
This now goes to Bowes x 4 years

Higgins and Selwood were probably on about $800K combined.
This now goes to Bruhn and Henry.

Some existing players might be getting increases, while the likes of Hawkins, Tuohy and Smith might be getting slightly less. That’s is what you call a well managed salary cap, and is our competitive advantage.


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Some really incredibly dump posters in the draft thread that just can’t seem to understand this simple logic

 

[#6 Thorp #7 Selwood LOL]

Tiges have picked up Taranto and Hopper* on huge contracts.

According to Dimma, the Tiges would have won the flag if not for the ARC review.

Two huge contracts added to the premiers*.

Where is the outrage?!?

 

[TheAthlete]

I agree with PO on Neale. I was at the Power game in Adelaide when he played. I am thinking he is a replacement for Blitz in a few years after helping bridge the ruck till Conway is full time no 1 ruck. Neale is an exciting player, and in a game Chris Scott quoted after the GF as a crucial one for the team and our system, Neale looked like he belonged and ran everywhere. Perhaps he could be our next hybrid ruck/ruck rover - very rare to get one anytime, and we have Blitz to teach him.

he is a serious serious mover for his size! Think he was a state 400m runner and at 202 it's bloody impressive. Lot to like but think they want him key position long term

 

[Stokey]

I don’t begrudge any Hawks supporter being disappointed the missed Bowes, but the salty conspiracy statements of a few posters are amusing.

“They may have to split that 7 gift Hocking found them before he quit his role overseeing the salary caps of all clubs and becoming Geelong CEO”

“Yep. The AFL has helped the Premier do a single year rebuild.”

“If you believe the reports, Geelong where into Bowes all year - maybe true, but most likely Hocking got a heads up from his mates at AFL that GC had a s**t $hitoad of salary and Bowes was getable with a massive bonus attached.”

My favourite was the guy that tried to put on a brave face and said.

'We'll get past this. The Hawks have always had to do things the hard way with no favours.'

This from the team that was given zones, priority picks and benefitted greatly from expansion clubs entering the league.

 

[strauchnyy]

Excited for the draft and keen for more vision of the top 10 prospects to come out.

One thing on Clark - the vision out there doesn’t excite me that much… a little too L Fogarty for mine. But maybe it’s just a poor game.

Wardlaw looks elite but how do you miss a whole yr from a hammy…

 

[Turbocat]

Didn't hear this much whinging when Richmond were able to poach Gold Coast's captain and the best young KF prospect in the comp to the club the year after they'd won the flag - Bowes is a fringe player; securing #7 will be the first time we've had a top 10 ND selection in since Nakia Cockatoo.

The real issue is that nobody wants to play for the Suns or the Giants. We paid a huge price when those teams were admitted to the comp, losing none other than Gary friggin Ablett for sfa - yes, we were all upset and angry at the time. Then the club buckled down and won the lot in 2011.

In concept ..I think the draft needs to be revised. Im not sure it fits with the modern mindset. People are different now than when it was introduced. No other draft picks kids like we do... and trying to ignore players desires is only sandbagging new orleans ..living on low land watching the water rise.

But whats the alternative. How can you stop players wanting to play for certain clubs. How can you encourage them to play for others. Most of the players are happy to just get a list spot...its not them that cause the consternation. Its the R1 picks, the talented players. JHF, Henry, Bruhn etc. etc. Money? Maybe but everyone is earning good money..just not silly money.

The issue I believe is its a disproportionate experience. How can playing for the Pies compare to Gold Coast or North or to Geelong etc. Kids growing dreaming of what ist going to be like.


Can Money compensate for the difference.? Some sort of loyaty bonus to stay with the club that drafted you? Perhaps the kids should get serious money from day 1... and more at the bottoms sides? I dont know.

My belief is that the non preferred clubs would have more appeal to players in their second part of their career...if they got what they wanted in their first yet Bowes is coming to us now.
Someone like Zac Guthrie..who is now a flag winner..should be an ideal recruit ..his chance to set himself up.

Part of it is in our culture its winners..and 17 losers. No players wants to finish up without playing finals and hopefully win a flag.


Thank heavens its not my problem... and why would we want to change it atm. I waited all my life to see Geelong win a flag , now I have seen 4 in 15 years. I took my son in law to the GF this year ..and I think he is a convert now, he would never have a chance to see the superbowl back in his home country. Its just a fact for us to win , others have to lose.. and what most of the belly aching is about is because they liked it better in the 70's and 80-'s when it was us doing the loosing.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Think they asked for more than 18 tbh, isnt that where the whole stalemate talk has come from?

It will be 18 plus one of our r3s that we wont use.

 

[CharacterFirst]

I think we definitely need another kpd or two on the list so im not against keeping sav but i think we can fill his spot with a drafted kpd or a DFA type kpd if sav is traded.

What about old mate Liam Fiore?

He seemed OK pre-season.

I wonder if we didn't put him in mothballs for a Rookie spot this year.

 

[ShaunWDT]

It will be 18 plus one of our r3s that we wont use.

Dont see how a pick that they wont use either changes a deal theyve already sipposedly rejected

 

[Turbocat]

I don’t begrudge any Hawks supporter being disappointed the missed Bowes, but the salty conspiracy statements of a few posters are amusing.

“They may have to split that 7 gift Hocking found them before he quit his role overseeing the salary caps of all clubs and becoming Geelong CEO”

“Yep. The AFL has helped the Premier do a single year rebuild.”

“If you believe the reports, Geelong where into Bowes all year - maybe true, but most likely Hocking got a heads up from his mates at AFL that GC had a s**t $hitoad of salary and Bowes was getable with a massive bonus attached.”

 

[catstragic]

Have people not paid attention at what happens when a socialist system is introduced.

The current system is stopping the lower teams from moving forward. North has been really good financially and haven't been reckless like the expansion clubs. They have had the capital but there are two many barriers to utilising their good management.

Maybe let a club pay two marquee players outside the cap whatever they want. $2mill no worries. If you can fund them you can have them. If you go insolvent you lose points.

Drop free agency to 5 or 6 years as well with no trading required.

There are just too many compromises in the draft and cap system. Needs to be a massive overhaul.

But let's wait a few years shall we.

Given multiple teams can't even manage to fit all their contracts within a known salary cap im skeptical of their capacity to handle a system with much flexibility. You'd have teams bankrupting themselves every second year.

Your never going to have a totally equitable competition, but the AFL is decent. Other than us no team has managed to stay at the top end for an extended period of time, and most of perennial basket cases end up rising back up the ladder (Demons/Blues for example).

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Cadman would be my no.1 based on need as much as on talent but he’ll go earlier. Of those likely to be around at 7, Clark is my pick. I think he’s the safest option to play 200 games than the others around that mark.

I agree cadman is the safest bet but wont get to 7.wardlaw would be very safe if not for injury.
I agree outside of them clark is the next 'safest' bet not much can go wrong with his game is a good B+ grader long term at worst and leadership potential all over him.

That said he probably doesnt have the ceiling of some in this draft and when its re done in 5 years time it wouldnt surprise me if sheezel phillipou humphrey and hollands are all in the top 6 or 7 they have the highest ceilings of any in the top 20 bracket. Phillipou id love if we were brave enough to pick.

 

[Cursed Cat]

The issue I believe is its a disproportionate experience. How can playing for the Pies compare to Gold Coast or North or to Geelong etc. Kids growing dreaming of what ist going to be like.



Thank heavens its not my problem... and why would we want to change it atm. I waited all my life to see Geelong win a flag , now I have seen 4 in 15 years. I took my son in law to the GF this year ..and I think he is a convert now, he would never have a chance to see the superbowl back in his home country. Its just a fact for us to win , others have to lose.. and what most of the belly aching is about is because they liked it better in the 70's and 80-'s when it was us doing the loosing.

sorry to snip what was a typically thought-provoking post Turbo, but ''Disproportionate experience'' is absolutely bang on - its the same thing Joel Selwood has been banging on about publicly in recent weeks - you don't come to Geelong for money, you come for the experience of playing at a wonderful club.

The last part is poignant to me too - as a younger man(/kid) I like many others suffered through mediocrity and then worse, watching the club lose GF after GF. Ablett senior and a handful of others made it bearable - just.

I remember my own envy watching Essendon, Carlton - Hawthorn, who my entire family barrack for bar me and the humans that I made - then upstarts like the Eagles and Crows came in and won flags before I and my Geelong supporting brethren were able to enjoy 1.

 

[ShaunWDT]

I'm not sure we are going out of our way for key position depth even if Sav leaves, guys already in the side are versatile enough to play tall for the required period of time, only way Ratugolea would seemlessly fit in is if SDK broke down IMHO and even then theres a good chance wed just move Blitz back and use a combo of Ceglar,Stanley and Conway.

 

[CatRiot]

Don’t think it’s too hard to see how Geelong affords this.

Dahlhaus was on $500k per year.
This now goes to Bowes x 4 years

Higgins and Selwood were probably on about $800K combined.
This now goes to Bruhn and Henry.

Some existing players might be getting increases, while the likes of Hawkins, Tuohy and Smith might be getting slightly less. That’s is what you call a well managed salary cap, and is our competitive advantage.


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Bruhn and Henry on 400k pa each? Seems a bit rich. Maybe 300-350k. with 2 year deals you'd think.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Excited for the draft and keen for more vision of the top 10 prospects to come out.

One thing on Clark - the vision out there doesn’t excite me that much… a little too L Fogarty for mine. But maybe it’s just a poor game.

Wardlaw looks elite but how do you miss a whole yr from a hammy…

On the warlord he did it and pushed too hard to get back for the last 1/3 of the year and did it again. Will go top 5 so will be a big call for a medical team.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I'm not sure we are going out of our way for key position depth even if Sav leaves, guys already in the side are versatile enough to play tall for the required period of time, only way Ratugolea would seemlessly fit in is if SDK broke down IMHO and even then theres a good chance wed just move Blitz back and use a combo of Ceglar,Stanley and Conway.

Its not so much 2023 yes we will make do there its more 2025 (remember drafted talls need time to develop).
By 2025 sdk henry kolo jezza (at 33) conway neale (if he doesnt go home before then) plus maybe blitz at 35 will be the only talls on the list of 46 so we need some more genuine talls.