Rumour GFC 2022 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists PT2

[MisterMarcus]

Returning to a zone system makes a lot of sense to me.
Players naturally seek to move back home or to play with mates they grew up playing with. And it's happening more and more.
A zone system would incentive AFL clubs to invest back into the grassroots footy of their own region.
And if the AFL wanted to really support expansion sides in Qld and NSW, they would likewise do so through supporting the grassroots in those states not through making special rules and concessions.
I see one of Geelong's main advantages as it's strong connection with the Falcons and to it's local footy leagues. That and simply being a well-run and successful club that make us an attractive destination even for players not from the region.

Zonal systems basically failed last time because some teams got naturally stronger/better zones.

Maybe a "first dibs on any one player from your zone" might work? Still gives clubs rewards for working their zone well, but not a massive long-term advantage.....

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Great we got this Bowes player, but can anyone explain why GC weren't allowed to alter his contract like we are doing? Paying his fee over 4 years instead of 2? GC look inept in giving massive contracts and backending them, but will they ever be able to keep players? And then adding the #7 ... It seems unfair even to a Cats fan that we are the beneficiaries of this.

Gc are allowed to alter it but the player has to agree to it and bowes didnt (probably wasnt happy with them) whereas he has agreed to a new contract with geelong (happier to do that with us). Whether its unfair is a separate issue but its legal.

 

[Brewskies]

I think we should have done the Henry and Bruhn deals before this Bowes news broke. Even if we paid a little more. It will have hardened the view on dealing with Geelong I think.

Agree. I would try and trade picks 38,48,55 to Brisbane for pick 21 and use Pick 18 for henry and Pick 21 for Bruhn without touching any futures and if we trade a player or to then they would be for future picks

 

[Jumping Jack]

Returning to a zone system makes a lot of sense to me.
Players naturally seek to move back home or to play with mates they grew up playing with. And it's happening more and more.
A zone system would incentive AFL clubs to invest back into the grassroots footy of their own region.
And if the AFL wanted to really support expansion sides in Qld and NSW, they would likewise do so through supporting the grassroots in those states not through making special rules and concessions.
I see one of Geelong's main advantages as it's strong connection with the Falcons and to it's local footy leagues. That and simply being a well-run and successful club that make us an attractive destination even for players not from the region.

I don't think zones will work. It's a backward step, an insular concept, and clubs will exploit it.

I'm no expert, but I think if you want to see which way we'll go in the AFL, just take a look at what most other major sporting codes do overseas. That's generally where we take our lead and I don't think it will be any different on this topic either.

 

[Turbocat]

Nothing concrete as yet. All I know is that the AFL ticked off the pick 7 exchange, so anything outside of that is between the clubs.

Pressure on GC after this to get it right... and to some degree Geelong and bowes. If Bowes stars at Geelong..which I feel he may well surprise ..its going to build pressure on them.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I have seen the argument made in the last few days that we should just do away with the draft and keep the salary cap as the main equalisation measure, ala the NRL.

I’m not sure that’s any better a solution for the likes of North and the Gold Coast. They will potentially be even more exposed to overpaying for talent.

I think if Geelong pulls this off there will be change in some direction, not sure how. Perhaps limiting trading/FAs for successful clubs.

Its a complex issue and comes down to culture,off field club management..many things.

But one of the big issues is the cap floor needs to be lowered but the aflpa wont agree as they want their members to keep getting more money.
If the cap floor is 80 % the suns dont have to offload bowes to begin with and other clubs can blow us out of the water with $ and get guys like bowes. Because everyone has to pay 95 %of the cap you have kids like tarryn thomas being grossly overpaid on 700k and the bottom clubs dont have much extra money compared to top 4 clubs to woo players (5% is not a lot).

They need to come up with a way to lower the cap floor to 80% as thats all a bottom 4 list needs to pay and gives them 20 %to recruit guns. Find ways to make up the 15 % gap in players pay by giving them a share of other afl revenue streams etc (in order to get the PA to agree to it).

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Agree. I would try and trade picks 38,48,55 to Brisbane for pick 21 and use Pick 18 for henry and Pick 21 for Bruhn without touching any futures and if we trade a player or to then they would be for future picks

Brisbane wont do that its too many list spots. Would need to trade 38 and sav for a 20s pick then say that and 48 for 21 so its less list spots for them to find. Future 1st and 2nd will prob have to be used in the deals.

 

[Pollywaffle]

These guys (and Stanley and Rohan) had a point to prove against the terrible opinions of supporters. They showed that they are actually excellent footballers and gave those who doubted them a big FU.

I hope they don’t revert back to type after getting a premiership under their belts.

 

[Turbocat]

Returning to a zone system makes a lot of sense to me.
Players naturally seek to move back home or to play with mates they grew up playing with. And it's happening more and more.
A zone system would incentive AFL clubs to invest back into the grassroots footy of their own region.
And if the AFL wanted to really support expansion sides in Qld and NSW, they would likewise do so through supporting the grassroots in those states not through making special rules and concessions.
I see one of Geelong's main advantages as it's strong connection with the Falcons and to it's local footy leagues. That and simply being a well-run and successful club that make us an attractive destination even for players not from the region.

Pure zones almost killed the old comp... and can you imagine how strong the WC and SA clubs would be ..getting the best kids every year. Look at the zones for the NGA clubs ...some have good results other nothing.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

There is alot of talk about the need to keep atleast a future second round pick to comply with the rules. Can anyone help explain it simply? Do we specifically have to keep our second round pick or are we able to trade ours out and as long as we get any clubs future second back we are good to go?

You can trade future 1st but you cant also trade future 2nd unless you bring another future 2nd in so yes you are correct re your last sentencs.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Agree. I would try and trade picks 38,48,55 to Brisbane for pick 21 and use Pick 18 for henry and Pick 21 for Bruhn without touching any futures and if we trade a player or to then they would be for future picks

The lions basically have enough points now to get Ashcroft and Fletcher without going into deficit so that won't happen.
They might still improve their points by trading 2x pick for 2x picks but not 1x pick for 3x picks.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yeah that makes sense. Might mean the Bruhn trade drops next week as we will have to find another FR2 to allow us to use that FR1 as part of the Bruhn trade.

If we can get Bowes done today, I don't see a reason why we won't get Henry done with P18. Although it seems we are holding out hope we don't have to trade P18 for him, or we get a decent pick back with Henry. I can't see the Pies backing down and IMO P18 is pretty fair.

I agree you do bowes first get 7 in then you work on whatever futures are needed to get bruhn done (ie future 1st with later picks back to us).
Then you just keep 18 on the table for henry til the last day we will get him at 18 in the ND if needed..they will cave as they dont have an alternative.

 

[Kitcat]

All that is fair it just doesn't sit well somehow.

If Williams showed enough potential, we would have kept him. He now has additional skills and experience to have a go at being picked up by a club in the next few years, if that is what he wants to aim for.

 

[supahoops]

Agree. I would try and trade picks 38,48,55 to Brisbane for pick 21 and use Pick 18 for henry and Pick 21 for Bruhn without touching any futures and if we trade a player or to then they would be for future picks

Perfect scenario. Maybe offer both up to GWS and Pies and see who bites first. Swap of F3/4’s. Keep F1. F2 to GC. We could throw out the anchor today.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The lions basically have enough points now to get Ashcroft and Fletcher without going into deficit so that won't happen.
They might still improve their points by trading 2x pick for 2x picks but not 1x pick for 3x picks.

Its not realistic with the lions but we could do that type of trade with another club..38 and our 4 later picks are dead to us so they need to be traded for a 20s pick this year or a future 2nd.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Perfect scenario. Maybe offer both up to GWS and Pies and see who bites first. Swap of F3/4’s. Keep F1. F2 to GC. We could throw out the anchor today.

Brisbane cant have like 10 picks as they would need 10 list spots so that scenario needs work.

 

[Turbocat]

I don't think zones will work. It's a backward step, an insular concept, and clubs will exploit it.

I'm no expert, but I think if you want to see which way we'll go in the AFL, just take a look at what most other major sporting codes do overseas. That's generally where we take our lead and I don't think it will be any different on this topic either.

They are all different though Cant see us copying Premier League. Baseball have push trades. Basketball have its own variations.

I think its cap related. yet most think bottom side having to pay 95% is wrong.

 

[Turbocat]

Its not realistic with the lions but we could do that type of trade with another club..38 and our 4 later picks are dead to us so they need to be traded for a 20s pick this year or a future 2nd.

would it be fair to say,.. we look like we have run ot of teams looking for points?

 

[moond0g]

Yep . If I am Geelong .. things can only get worse for us changing the system. So no change but im sure others will want change. It usually happens when we have a win. Just like with FatherSon changed after Hawkins.

On contract length .. Why should r1 picks be different. Thats more inequity . So one year P20 must stay for 3 years ..and another year only 2 years? Personally I did not like what we did to the MSD kid Williams. If you move someone from another state... you should be willing to give them 2 years. Clubs like longer contracts...when it suits them because it gives them trade hand.

I think the point on contract length avoids the core issue. The concept of the draft denies that players have their own desires and tastes and wants. JHF is contracted.. just as Kelly was and they want out. If we compel players to stay where tehy are not happy for longer... how long before mental health is brought up?

If every R1 pick could have chosen where they started their career... how many pick the club they land at. (apart from the likes of Ashcroft and Dacois). The draft build in this underlying sandbag approach. Most of the time..a player will land at a club and settle... but sometimes, especially players who are highly talented and have choices.. they do not settle and will act of their preference. ... In all the beating about Geelong .... how many bring up us losing Clark to Freo ? It happens to all clubs.

Ok, 3 years for everyone, then. The reason to limit to only first rounders would be, like you said, a pick 50 is just happy to be on a list and isn't going to request a trade after 1 year. Whereas a first rounder knows they can dictate where they want to go because other clubs want them. But I'd be happy to extend draftee contracts for everyone. It gives clubs security of a top player for a bit longer, and gives the high draft picks a guaranteed wage for another year before the prospect of being delisted. Although the salary for the 3rd year at least would likely have to be higher.

The draft does deny players their own desires, but what's the alternative? No 18yo will ever choose to go the GWS. It will be like free agency on steroids. But instead of waiting until a player is 25 or 26 before getting to choose where they go, they go as an 18yo.

Us losing Clark is relevant, no club is ALWAYS going to win. That's the risk you take a little when drafting someone from interstate. But we've clearly benefitted from good players choosing to come here, too. The problem is there are some clubs that will ALWAYS lose. How many highly rated young players have requested a trade to GWS, Gold Coast, North etc.? it's one-way traffic from the bottom clubs. They're putting all their effort into retaining who they've got (i.e. overpaying), but never get any good players actively seeking to join. There's a certain part of this which is unavoidable, especially with clubs from Qld and NSW as they're not going to have the 'go-home' factor working in their favour as often. But if you make player movement easier, and at a younger age, with no incentive to go to, or at least stay at these clubs, then they might as well not exist because they'll never be successful.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I’d assume we will prioritize the Bowes trade then look to trade back into next years R2 in order to facilitate the Bruhn trade. Hoping that Bowes drops today.

Yep do bowes first as nothing stopping it. Semd future 2nd to gc
We only need to get an extra fr2 to allow the fr1 to go out for bruhn.
Do that pick swap later ie 38 48 55 > some club for FR2
Then fr1 for bruhn and gws fr 3

 

[Turbocat]

I agree you do bowes first get 7 in then you work on whatever futures are needed to get bruhn done (ie future 1st with later picks back to us).
Then you just keep 18 on the table for henry til the last day we will get him at 18 in the ND if needed..they will cave as they dont have an alternative.

I have this feeling there is going to be a player trade out involved somewhere.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

would it be fair to say,.. we look like we have run ot of teams looking for points?

Not yet..depends who has what picks..still a lot of trades to be done but options are narrowing..which is why we might have to trade sav if thats the only way to get the fr2.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I have this feeling there is going to be a player trade out involved somewhere.

Sav?

 

[doctor_evil]

You reckon that is legally sustainable?

The day the AFL kneecaps success with a direct punishment by banning an ability to trade is the day i switch off for good.

 

[dazbroncos]

I agree with PO on Neale. I was at the Power game in Adelaide when he played. I am thinking he is a replacement for Blitz in a few years after helping bridge the ruck till Conway is full time no 1 ruck. Neale is an exciting player, and in a game Chris Scott quoted after the GF as a crucial one for the team and our system, Neale looked like he belonged and ran everywhere. Perhaps he could be our next hybrid ruck/ruck rover - very rare to get one anytime, and we have Blitz to teach him.

Neale to me is the key in so much of this.

Kepp him at the club and let him develop more as he has been. Im a massive fan clearly - but his skills are very unique and whilst not as high as Jezza in the tank and running deptartment... he's no slouch either.

I see Neale as the Tomma incumbent when the time comes and that he should get at least 10-14 games next year as a KPF.

The West will already be in his ear - as they should be - and its up to him to be keep the chin up and playing well and up to us to reward those efforts with selection.

And I agree his skills for a bloke his size are very very good...and hes still young so he will only get better with time. Im not sure about the BLitz role for him however.. I think hes more a pure KPF with some ruck relief Tomma style in F 50.

GO Catters