Review Good/Bad/Ugly vs Hawthorn and their Umpires

[feenix67]

Noone with any credibility would think they were the big gun of the competition last year. You might though.




On the basis that they, Betts in particular, are elite stars of the competition, and by definition those are hard to replace.

I love this sort of crap though. People who think that there's some sort of merit in delusion. Like being 'optimistic' and happy with our lot, which has seen us go 18 years without making a decider, let alone win one, somehow changes reality for you.

I've posted more Friday night, because spuds like you keep underarming soft balls. Admittedly it's probably a character flaw of mine, but it's pretty hard not to send them over the fence.

Except you haven't. You've had a big swing and a miss. Not being passimistic does not mean one is unrealistic. Your pessimism clouds your judgement in the same manner you propose the optimists are being deluded. You are prone to the negative, and that's a pretty comfortable position to take, given that 17/18ths of the time each year you'll be vindicated by the lack of a premiership. You're taking the easy option, sport, much like a kid who can't have his new toy. Throwing tantrums... "you never buy me anything".

Your premise that CC is likely a step under Betts in class on the basis that Betts is "elite" is a total straw man. M Crouch is certainly of a higher standard than Thommo at the same stage of his career. You have no evidence, merely using the law of averages to underpin your narrative. It's amusing.

Put your big girl pants on.

 

[Mattrox]

There's nothing inconsistent with that and what I've said.

Just stop trying to transform what is apparently a step in the right direction into the finish line itself.



There is absolutely nothing to show that this is the case at all. Even when we play better than them, they still beat us. Even when we're 3 goals up with 4 to play they still beat us. That's not evidence that we beat them.

It's also not evidence that we cannot beat them. Which is the opinion you are pushing. I don't see it that way at all. The team will have learned a lot from that game. With seconds left we had it in scoring position and played the game all the way to the end.

In the past in matches like that we would have wilted and lost by 20 points.

For sure the result is frustrating but the loss is not the end of our season. The team must be resilient. And so far this year I have seen much more resilience than a number of years combined.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I think this board dramatically overrates the league wide importance of elimination finals. The good teams don't even play in them.

But he's using the same games as examples of abject failure. Can't have it both ways.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

We lost the Hawthorn game ....but the same commentators who declared us a non finalist this year, are noe declaring us a top 4 side .....gee 5 weeks in footy is a longtime

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Well that was the first game in 3 years we went back to Melbourne for ... me and the two older kids (15 and 12) and we were invested !

We had 3 trolls sitting behind us, who didn't follow either team and were openly baiting every Crows supporter they could - very loudly - very poorly.

When Poppy kicked that goal and the crowd erupted my 12 year old girl burst into tears, she was dreaming that we could beat the Hawks at the G. The joke behind us came out with "Oh ho - there's tears in the crowd!" which got a response from me that let's just say let him know that the 6"2 110 kg angry father in front of him (a stock image to help your imagination) ...

View attachment 239137

... wouldn't mind if he took that back. He meekly apologised a couple of times and while hugging my little girl we looked back at the contest wondering how long till it was over? The same idiot yells out "hahaha there's only 18 seconds left - the Cows are going to choke" which we ignored. Only to watch the ball go down our end and a whole lot of screaming from our cheer squad that we couldn't tell the detail of ... siren.

There were some apologies and a very forced (but necessary in front of the kids) handshake with the idiots behind us, and a lot of unhappy Crows supporters made their way out of the ground.

We stayed in our seats as long as we could to let my girl calm down and let it all go. Then we made our way to the train, all the Hawks supporters on there were excellent - very lucky, we got a great run with the umps at the end there ... etc.

Back at the hotel we switched on the TV and unfortunately saw the commentary team reviewing the HTB that was missed in the dying seconds. We all went ballistic

There were some very confusing calls at the game - but I'm not one to call out umpiring decisions at the ground unless they are blatant and I am sure - so I just thought maybe we were unlucky a few times ... but there were plenty Crows supporters around us going nuts.

So now it's a couple of days behind us and we back in beautiful Hobart. We have rationalised it - we have compartmentalised it. I noticed the recorded Foxtel item last night and couldn't bring myself to watch the game again yet - maybe tomorrow.

I am now at the point of "we are a different team, we will be there at the pointy end over the coming years and all of this experience will eventually help us be a premiership club again."

We are booking the next trip to Melbourne tonight. My little girl wants to go back and try again Those games are heart-breaking, but they do make steely supporters of those who go through it. Like I told my daughter ... It will make the next few Grand Final wins all the more delicious !!

PS - as the first live game I have been to in nearly 3 years, I got to see some of our structures and some of the players work off the ball. My conclusion was - Mackay is still a boy playing against men. He was inconsequential against the Hawks players ... he should not play against them, ever again. The other thing was Sloane ... he was immense. In every way. He ran harder, tackled harder, fought harder than anyone on the ground ... except maybe Matthew Nicholls

The tough losses make the wins worth something

imagine how excited your daughter will be if they win in a similar scenario next time

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We lost the Hawthorn game ....but the same commentators who declared us a non finalist this year, are noe declaring us a top 4 side .....gee 5 weeks in footy is a longtime

Just hope we can win the games well when we are favourites ( including this week)

We can definitely compete against the best and now need to cash in against the others when opportunity arises

Think we need to use a squad of around 25-26 given that we are mostly injury free

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just hope we can win the games well when we are favourites ( including this week)

We can definitely compete against the best and now need to cash in against the others when opportunity arises

Think we need to use a squad of around 25-26 given that we are mostly injury free

My take would be 32 players over the season ......if we have injuries, you don't want to bring in players having no AFL exposure during the season

 

[Kickin Goals]

Everyone needs to chill out, we lost to the Hawks and that obviously sucks big time but we have made massive steps forward, looking at our draw at the start of the season
Everyone on here would have put there hand up for a 3-2 start. We are good maybe really good for the first time since 05-06. Let's try and enjoy it.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

There's nothing inconsistent with that and what I've said.

Just stop trying to transform what is apparently a step in the right direction into the finish line itself.



There is absolutely nothing to show that this is the case at all. Even when we play better than them, they still beat us. Even when we're 3 goals up with 4 to play they still beat us. That's not evidence that we beat them.

Mate that is pure rubbish

If Puopolo missed that goal we win even despite our mistakes ... The line between a win in a game like that and a loss is finer than you are making out

How about the Sydney game ?! Do you think they weren't right in that as well?! Sydney could easily have come out of that game the winners . We took a couple of key moments that we didn't take against the Hawks , the Hawks nailed their half chances


That's the difference , it's not that we can't beat hawthorn at all its just that we haven't ( at this stage)

We couldn't beat Sydney either until 8 days ago.... In fact they had it over us more than what hawthorn have over last few yrs

 

[Southerntakeover]

But he's using the same games as examples of abject failure. Can't have it both ways.

Actually, there's nothing inconsistent about that at all. Not being able to win an elimination final does prove that you can't win a bigger final.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's also not evidence that we cannot beat them. Which is the opinion you are pushing. I don't see it that way at all. The team will have learned a lot from that game. With seconds left we had it in scoring position and played the game all the way to the end.

In the past in matches like that we would have wilted and lost by 20 points.

For sure the result is frustrating but the loss is not the end of our season. The team must be resilient. And so far this year I have seen much more resilience than a number of years combined.

It kind of is evidence that we can't beat them. I can't think of much better evidence than the repeated failure to beat them.

Wait, in the past we would have conceded another 4 goals in those four minutes? Good god almighty.

 

[feenix67]

Mate that is pure rubbish

If Puopolo missed that goal we win even despite our mistakes ... The line between a win in a game like that and a loss is finer than you are making out

How about the Sydney game ?! Do you think they weren't right in that as well?! Sydney could easily have come out of that game the winners . We took a couple of key moments that we didn't take against the Hawks , the Hawks nailed their half chances


That's the difference , it's not that we can't beat hawthorn at all its just that we haven't ( at this stage)

We couldn't beat Sydney either until 8 days ago.... In fact they had it over us more than what hawthorn have over last few yrs

sssh stop using facts, he'll start twitching...

 

[Slippery Pete]

Actually, there's nothing inconsistent about that at all. Not being able to win an elimination final does prove that you can't win a bigger final.

It's faulty logic. You can't bill a game a "step up" game after the result.

It either is or it isn't. His "step up" games are all over the shop, they're just the ones that gave him the most badfeeeeelzzz.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with his premise but his evidence isn't objective.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Except you haven't. You've had a big swing and a miss. Not being passimistic does not mean one is unrealistic. Your pessimism clouds your judgement in the same manner you propose the optimists are being deluded. You are prone to the negative, and that's a pretty comfortable position to take, given that 17/18ths of the time each year you'll be vindicated by the lack of a premiership. You're taking the easy option, sport, much like a kid who can't have his new toy. Throwing tantrums... "you never buy me anything".

Your premise that CC is likely a step under Betts in class on the basis that Betts is "elite" is a total straw man. M Crouch is certainly of a higher standard than Thommo at the same stage of his career. You have no evidence, merely using the law of averages to underpin your narrative. It's amusing.

Put your big girl pants on.

The 'negative' has been our reality. What an absurd denialism you're pushing.

That's just leaving aside the rubbish claim that premierships are won on a rotating basis. Every team gets one every 18 years!!!

I'm not sure you understand what a strawman actually is. There's nothing strawman about saying that Betts is an elite player, top 2 small forward, and that it's incredibly unlikely that anyone else on our list will end up being that good at that role.

Your line is the same line that our fans have pushed forever. We were told that it was OK that we'd wasted the prime years of Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards et al, because the likes of Vince, Knights etc were totally going to become those elites and carry on the torch. Look at their records!

As a football club you only get so many years with elite players. You should try not to waste them on the false notion that you can fail in big moments, but will snails crawl towards success.

I like Charlie, but I'd be surprised if he ever has the football IQ that eddie has.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's faulty logic. You can't bill a game a "step up" game after the result.

It either is or it isn't. His "step up" games are all over the shop, they're just the ones that gave him the most badfeeeeelzzz.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with his premise but his evidence isn't objective.

It's not faulty logic at all. You can learn something about an inability to handle pressure from those games, you just can't find out whether you can handle the greatest pressure.

The thing is though, if you can't handle a lower level of pressure you can't handle the higher level.

If I can't hang in the ring with the best boxer at the local gym because when it gets rough I drop my head, it's a pretty fair indicator that I can't take Mayweather.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Mate that is pure rubbish

If Puopolo missed that goal we win even despite our mistakes ... The line between a win in a game like that and a loss is finer than you are making out

How about the Sydney game ?! Do you think they weren't right in that as well?! Sydney could easily have come out of that game the winners . We took a couple of key moments that we didn't take against the Hawks , the Hawks nailed their half chances


That's the difference , it's not that we can't beat hawthorn at all its just that we haven't ( at this stage)

We couldn't beat Sydney either until 8 days ago.... In fact they had it over us more than what hawthorn have over last few yrs

The Sydney game as been dealt with multiple times already. It's not a new point. Read the thread.

 

[GreyCrow]

The 'negative' has been our reality. What an absurd denialism you're pushing.

That's just leaving aside the rubbish claim that premierships are won on a rotating basis. Every team gets one every 18 years!!!

I'm not sure you understand what a strawman actually is. There's nothing strawman about saying that Betts is an elite player, top 2 small forward, and that it's incredibly unlikely that anyone else on our list will end up being that good at that role.

.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

 

[Elite Crow]

For those who were at the game, I'm interested to know, did you see any effort by our leaders to control the last minute and a bit from the kick out? Having watched the game again, its not evident that there was.

Footy SA showed the last thrown in that led to Puopolo free. Jacobs was poor at the throw in and just seemed to watch, as did Thommo and DMack should have done better and get the ball out again but in a tackle he let it spill. 3 senior players should have done better.

 

[feenix67]

The 'negative' has been our reality. What an absurd denialism you're pushing.

That's just leaving aside the rubbish claim that premierships are won on a rotating basis. Every team gets one every 18 years!!!

I'm not sure you understand what a strawman actually is. There's nothing strawman about saying that Betts is an elite player, top 2 small forward, and that it's incredibly unlikely that anyone else on our list will end up being that good at that role.

Your line is the same line that our fans have pushed forever. We were told that it was OK that we'd wasted the prime years of Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards et al, because the likes of Vince, Knights etc were totally going to become those elites and carry on the torch. Look at their records!

As a football club you only get so many years with elite players. You should try not to waste them on the false notion that you can fail in big moments, but will snails crawl towards success.

I like Charlie, but I'd be surprised if he ever has the football IQ that eddie has.

Ohhhhh, here I was thinking you were intelligent, just jaded. I've overestimated the former, clearly.

Im not sure how you got the rotating premiership theory from my previous post. Each year, we have a one in 18th chance. Therefore, your negative position has a 95% chance of being fulfilled each year. As I said, it's a pretty comfortable bunker from where to be firing shots

The strawman is using "he's elite". He's elite now, was he elite at the same stage of his career? Of course not. You can't make a call about Charlie either way, at this stage of his career. Unless of course, you're a pessimist

My "line" is that you're an emotional man. Every post is dripping with emotive negativity. There's no depth of thought, analysis, fact based evidence - just a string of teary negative rhetoric held together by loose correlations formed to underpin your narrative. You introduce assumptions to seperate yourself from the masses, such as "we accept mediocrity", when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of supporters dont. Given that BigFooty has a fair cross section of the general demographic, it's fair to say that the same is true here. But you cant go getting all hissy fit about failure, in a sport where the odds of failure are so high. And, if you choose to do so, at least give yourself some pseudo credibility by being around during the wins as well as the losses.

Emotion and objectivity are not happy partners, STO. Given the consistently emotive content you produce on here, it's hard to see you as objective.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Ohhhhh, here I was thinking you were intelligent, just jaded. I've overestimated the former, clearly.

Im not sure how you got the rotating premiership theory from my previous post. Each year, we have a one in 18th chance. Therefore, your negative position has a 95% chance of being fulfilled each year. As I said, it's a pretty comfortable bunker from where to be firing shots

The strawman is using "he's elite". He's elite now, was he elite at the same stage of his career? Of course not. You can't make a call either way, at this stage of his career. Unless of course, you're a pessimist

My "line" is that you're an emotional man. Every post is dripping with emotive negativity. There's no depth of thought, analysis, fact based evidence - just a string of teary negative rhetoric held together by loose correlations formed to underpin your narrative. You introduce assumptions to seperate yourself from the masses, such as "we accept mediocrity", when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of supporters dont. Given that BigFooty has a fair cross section of the general demographic, it's fair to say that the same is true here. But you cant go getting all hissy fit about failure, in a sport where the odds of failure are so high. And, if you choose to do so, at least give yourself some pseudo credibility by being around during the wins as well as the losses.

Emotion and objectivity are not happy partners, STO. Given the consistently emotive content you produce on here, it's hard to see you as objective.

POTY

 

[feenix67]

Footy SA showed the last thrown in that led to Puopolo free. Jacobs was poor at the throw in and just seemed to watch, as did Thommo and DMack should have done better and get the ball out again but in a tackle he let is spill. 3 senior players should have done better.

Yeah, but even before that. Hawthorn should never have gotten the ball back in their hands after that last point. There was 1:20ish left on the clock and we had possession. Kicking to a contest was the last thing we should have been doing. Tex, Thommo, Sloaney, should have made sure that happened.

This is why we need a strong leader like vB in our team...

Relax, Im joking

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Ohhhhh, here I was thinking you were intelligent, just jaded. I've overestimated the former, clearly.

Im not sure how you got the rotating premiership theory from my previous post. Each year, we have a one in 18th chance. Therefore, your negative position has a 95% chance of being fulfilled each year. As I said, it's a pretty comfortable bunker from where to be firing shots

The strawman is using "he's elite". He's elite now, was he elite at the same stage of his career? Of course not. You can't make a call about Charlie either way, at this stage of his career. Unless of course, you're a pessimist

My "line" is that you're an emotional man. Every post is dripping with emotive negativity. There's no depth of thought, analysis, fact based evidence - just a string of teary negative rhetoric held together by loose correlations formed to underpin your narrative. You introduce assumptions to seperate yourself from the masses, such as "we accept mediocrity", when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of supporters dont. Given that BigFooty has a fair cross section of the general demographic, it's fair to say that the same is true here. But you cant go getting all hissy fit about failure, in a sport where the odds of failure are so high. And, if you choose to do so, at least give yourself some pseudo credibility by being around during the wins as well as the losses.

Emotion and objectivity are not happy partners, STO. Given the consistently emotive content you produce on here, it's hard to see you as objective.

WOW .....one of the best constructed posts i've ever seen on Big Footy

 

[Orange]

Bit late to the party but i found the umpire carry on of the Crows fans embarrassing. Many of the opinions on Friday's umpiring owed more to paranoid fantasy than reality. No the Crows weren't shafted all night. Yes the Crows did get a number of decisions their way. We were beaten in the clearances and made some crucial mistakes at crucial times. I have no doubt that the Crows players and coaches will not spend 1 second focussing on the umpires.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Bit late to the party but i found the umpire carry on of the Crows fans embarrassing.

Agreed.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Ohhhhh, here I was thinking you were intelligent, just jaded. I've overestimated the former, clearly.

Im not sure how you got the rotating premiership theory from my previous post. Each year, we have a one in 18th chance. Therefore, your negative position has a 95% chance of being fulfilled each year. As I said, it's a pretty comfortable bunker from where to be firing shots

The strawman is using "he's elite". He's elite now, was he elite at the same stage of his career? Of course not. You can't make a call about Charlie either way, at this stage of his career. Unless of course, you're a pessimist

My "line" is that you're an emotional man. Every post is dripping with emotive negativity. There's no depth of thought, analysis, fact based evidence - just a string of teary negative rhetoric held together by loose correlations formed to underpin your narrative. You introduce assumptions to seperate yourself from the masses, such as "we accept mediocrity", when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of supporters dont. Given that BigFooty has a fair cross section of the general demographic, it's fair to say that the same is true here. But you cant go getting all hissy fit about failure, in a sport where the odds of failure are so high. And, if you choose to do so, at least give yourself some pseudo credibility by being around during the wins as well as the losses.

Emotion and objectivity are not happy partners, STO. Given the consistently emotive content you produce on here, it's hard to see you as objective.

Oh god. How embarrassing.

To have shots at intelligence thrown by someone who just pushed the argument that each team has as 1/18 chance of winning the premiership every year. Its difficult to imagine a more foolish contention.

Premiership chances are not random chance. Teams do not start the season with the same odds of winning. If you don't start with this contention: 'that whether a club succeeds or fails is the result of that club's actions and decisions', then you have absolutely no right to talk about depth of thought, analysis or fact based evidence. You're living with the pixies.