Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[TassieGrown]

View attachment 1535109

Surely GC are an F, by far the worst trade period by any team

 

[Flamin Joe]

Successful?

I love our club, but that thinking is just entitled these days. Like Essendon fan's still saying they are Successful, Blues too.

Reality is we haven't won a final since 2015, and have multiple years running bottom six.

We're not a successful club at present.

It will change in time.

I think you're being a bit nit picky here.

Perhaps I should of worded it better but I meant a successful club in the context of being historically successful. I don't think it's entitled to think we are a successful club having won at least Premiership every decade since the 1960's and had extended period of domance in the competition such as the 70's-80's and the early to mid 2010's.

In that same context I would consider Essendon and the Blues a successful club (I stress historically) just as on the opposite side of the spectrum I wouldn't consider St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne successful clubs as there Premierships have been few and far between taking into consideration how long they have been in the competition.

Past success never guarantees further success but some clubs just seem to have a knack of eventually righting themselves and we just happen to be one of them.

 

[palmomagpie]

"On Thursday morning there was condemnation for Hawthorn’s apparent decision to force O’Meara and Mitchell out the door.

Barrett said on afl.com.au, O’Meara wanted to stay at Hawthorn with the prospect of a trade only beginning to be seriously discussed in the last days of the trade period.

“There’s a level of hurt here for how he’s been treated by the club that got him across from the Gold Coast Suns and made him leader because of his qualities.

“For two years in a row he’s been forced to endure conversations around where he’s going to be and this year he’s out.”

Journalist Josh Gabelich also criticised the Hawks for how it treated the two senior players.

“It’s happened too quickly,” he said on AFL Daily.

“We saw it last year with Luke Breust – he had a 48 hour window and he stayed. Jaeger O’Meara gave it the all clear in the end. I just don’t know if this is the way to treat two players, who have been really significant members of that team.”

Media - Hawthorn not doing enough. Mitchell and O'Meara are rubbish players who make no impact. Also media - Hawthorn have treated them poorly trading them out

We knew Mitchell was an out weeks before the season finished . O'Meara maybe not - but by all accounts, GWS and Freo went for him and he just agreed

 

[Ned Ryerson]

"On Thursday morning there was condemnation for Hawthorn’s apparent decision to force O’Meara and Mitchell out the door.

Barrett said on afl.com.au, O’Meara wanted to stay at Hawthorn with the prospect of a trade only beginning to be seriously discussed in the last days of the trade period.

“There’s a level of hurt here for how he’s been treated by the club that got him across from the Gold Coast Suns and made him leader because of his qualities.

“For two years in a row he’s been forced to endure conversations around where he’s going to be and this year he’s out.”

Journalist Josh Gabelich also criticised the Hawks for how it treated the two senior players.

“It’s happened too quickly,” he said on AFL Daily.

“We saw it last year with Luke Breust – he had a 48 hour window and he stayed. Jaeger O’Meara gave it the all clear in the end. I just don’t know if this is the way to treat two players, who have been really significant members of that team.”

Jesus the AFL media changes their narrative on a dime. Before Jaeger was traded they would love to spin a tale about how poor he's been for us, what a bust he has been. We then move him on to hasten a rebuild strategy and suddenly 'oh poor Jaeger, can't believe the Hawks would do this!!'. Okay, Purple.

 

[TassieGrown]

Amon & Cooper Stephens are the 2 mids I’m referring to. I’m excited to have them both and Meek is an excellent young Ruck.

Stephens is a gun mid, hope you are right

 

[Jazzfan]

I think you're being a bit nit picky here.

Perhaps I should of worded it better but I meant a successful club in the context of being historically successful. I don't think it's entitled to think we are a successful club having won at least Premiership every decade since the 1960's and had extended period of domance in the competition such as the 70's-80's and the early to mid 2010's.

In that same context I would consider Essendon and the Blues a successful club (I stress historically) just as on the opposite side of the spectrum I wouldn't consider St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne successful clubs as there Premierships have been few and far between taking into consideration how long they have been in the competition.

Past success never guarantees further success but some clubs just seem to have a knack of eventually righting themselves and we just happen to be one of them.

But the thing is mate, opposition players wouldn't consider us a successful club to be joining right now.

That stuff is really for fans.

Trade period really only further highlighted who are the clubs players feel are successful, or will be giving them the greatest chance of success.

Amon didn't pick us for success, at least in the short-medium term.

Not to harp on on it, but our attraction is to young players we can provide opportunity. Its why missing on Bowes (pick 7) was a really bitter pill to swallow.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Oh cool - so set back the rebuild and get less capital for Mitchell next year so McKenzie looks tough. Sounds awesome.

Now think through the flipside of that statement.

 

[Mercy Seat]

We do have a clue how negotiations went because we know what the final price paid was. Clearly Collingwood set a price they were willing to pay for Mitchell and didn't deviate from it. No other buyers in the market. You have an unattractive asset that next to nobody wants and yet McKenzie is a failure for not driving up the price. Okay then.

No other buyers is irrelevant. Once you nominate a club, that's where they're going, it's not a bidding war. It's up to the clubs to negotiate.

 

[hardway]

No other buyers is irrelevant. Once you nominate a club, that's where they're going, it's not a bidding war. It's up to the clubs to negotiate.

Absolutely and it will remain that way until a club is willing to let a player go to the PSD. Its the only tool clubs will have to balance the power.

 

[Stranglers]

The Mitchell trade into the club was brilliant value at the time, I could not believe we got him so cheap as evidenced by the AAs and Brownlow he picked up after joining us. Unfortunately he is an extractor, not a damaging user of the ball - and we didn't manage to put together a properly functioning cohort of outside players around him that he could distribute to. We got absolutely fleeced on the JOM deal, Wingard is increasingly looking like a bust, and we brought in some absolute duds over the period like Vickery and Patton.

Unfortunately the last few years of Clarksons tenure was marked by some really really poor list management that overrated the list we had, but failed to retain players and brought in questionable replacements at premium cost - all on the false hope of a top-up tilt. We really needed to go through a bit of pain back in 2017-19 or thereabouts to regenerate the list. We put it off and now it's time to pay the piper unfortunately.

I'm just glad we've committed to a course of action and are seeing it through, even with the prospect of a bit of pain now - it'll be worth it once this group starts to really gel in another 2-3 years.

 

[Jazzfan]

No other buyers is irrelevant. Once you nominate a club, that's where they're going, it's not a bidding war. It's up to the clubs to negotiate.

Hence O'Meara deal.

GWS being interested ended up meaning jack all.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

"On Thursday morning there was condemnation for Hawthorn’s apparent decision to force O’Meara and Mitchell out the door.

Barrett said on afl.com.au, O’Meara wanted to stay at Hawthorn with the prospect of a trade only beginning to be seriously discussed in the last days of the trade period.

“There’s a level of hurt here for how he’s been treated by the club that got him across from the Gold Coast Suns and made him leader because of his qualities.

“For two years in a row he’s been forced to endure conversations around where he’s going to be and this year he’s out.”

Journalist Josh Gabelich also criticised the Hawks for how it treated the two senior players.

“It’s happened too quickly,” he said on AFL Daily.

“We saw it last year with Luke Breust – he had a 48 hour window and he stayed. Jaeger O’Meara gave it the all clear in the end. I just don’t know if this is the way to treat two players, who have been really significant members of that team.”

Bit of a cop out. Jaeger was contracted, he could have stayed.

 

[Da Game]

After hearing this morning from Mackenzie and McCartney it sounds like we are paying minimal amount next year for Jaeger and Titch which is good so we can potentially move the majority of current players contract money into the next couple of years so when we are ready to compete we can target 2-4 high profile free agents and to compliment the list.

To put a positive spin on the trades yesterday based on points etc we hope that we have traded Titch and bought in Stephens and a late 20s pick and we traded Jaeger and bought in Meek and a late 20s pick.

So fingers crossed that Davey is bid in the teens in the upcoming draft so we can bundle 3 or 4 of our 3rd round picks this year for Essendon's Pick 22 which will give them a lot more points to match that and gets us back to 3 picks in the Top 30 this year.

Then fingers crossed that the Dogs miss the 8 next year so the F2 is in that late 20s bracket.

 

[Stottzy]

Can't understand all the hysteria, even from our own supporters. Omeara is not that good and Mitchell isn't 2018 Mitchell anymore. If they were we'd be asking for 1st round picks in single digits or teens.
Most in the media were saying we didn't deserve more than pick 30 for Mitchell, so don't know why they're acting like now we've let go a in their prime number 1 pick go. We've had the worst midfield the last few years and was time for a major shake up.

And we've picked up Amon who can seriously play. I reckon we've done well, other than not getting pick 25.

 

[yeahmate]

I think the whole strategy of trading off senior best 22 players for middling draft picks and fringe players from other teams needs to come under serious review. To me its less about the return we got and more about why even trade them in the first place unless youre getting compelling offers from other clubs. Constantly shopping around club leaders at every opportunity isnt a great look, can't be great for morale amongst the senior players, and just ends up with other clubs bending us over at the draft table. If we're not under salary pressure and both JOM and TOM are still in our best 22 for the next few years, and we're not getting a great return from trading, then whats the actual benefit of trading them? The total ground up youth rebuild has been shown to be a failed model for success as evidenced by our own successful era and every recent premiership team. You need experienced and hardened bodies, particularly in the midfield, to bring the good kids through and give them some protection as they improve. I personally think we've cut way too deep here and its more a hit and hope strategy than anything based on sound planning.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Gresham would be nice. RFA next year.

 

[MJA33]

The second rounder we have for next year was a good get. It’ll be important to us, either between now and this years draft, or during next years trade period.

Yes this pick that we gained is going under the radar. Very handy.

 

[Stranglers]

"On Thursday morning there was condemnation for Hawthorn’s apparent decision to force O’Meara and Mitchell out the door.

Barrett said on afl.com.au, O’Meara wanted to stay at Hawthorn with the prospect of a trade only beginning to be seriously discussed in the last days of the trade period.

“There’s a level of hurt here for how he’s been treated by the club that got him across from the Gold Coast Suns and made him leader because of his qualities.

“For two years in a row he’s been forced to endure conversations around where he’s going to be and this year he’s out.”

Journalist Josh Gabelich also criticised the Hawks for how it treated the two senior players.

“It’s happened too quickly,” he said on AFL Daily.

“We saw it last year with Luke Breust – he had a 48 hour window and he stayed. Jaeger O’Meara gave it the all clear in the end. I just don’t know if this is the way to treat two players, who have been really significant members of that team.”

What an absolute crock. Blind Freddy could see Mitchell was going to go to another club at the end of the season, it would have been waste of time for both parties for him to stay on somewhere that he was clearly not suited for. JOM didn't seem particularly upset that he got to his nominated destination. Guaranteed that if we hadn't traded either of those two we would be rated an F for not making any moves to rejuvenate the list.

 

[Birdofprey]

Jesus the AFL media changes their narrative on a dime. Before Jaeger was traded they would love to spin a tale about how poor he's been for us, what a bust he has been. We then move him on to hasten a rebuild strategy and suddenly 'oh poor Jaeger, can't believe the Hawks would do this!!'. Okay, Purple.

We are such a terrible club. We forced JOM into a four year deal with a club based in the city where (I am led to believe) he just purchased a beautiful new home. Obviously he would be upset about the outcome and had no input in the process. Likewise, Titch was “shipped off” all the way from Waverley to Olympic park to play for a powerhouse club that many regard as being finals contenders again next year. His life is being turned upside down.

Barret is right as usual - we are ruthless animals at Hawthorn.

 

[HawthornHawk]

See - people keep using these terms. Call their bluff. Hold out. Be tough. Don't fold. They sound good but don't mean anything. Collingwood say - take this deal as we are not paying more than this. Our response is to keep Tom, have him stymie our midfield development for another year and then walk as an uncontracted player next year for even less trade currency. How is this a good option? Explain to me how selling him for less next year makes McKenzie a better operator?

Walk away from the deal, I suspect we would have picked up Stephens with a later pick anyway. There is also always the chance that the pies fall short without him and come to the table again.

 

[Jazzfan]

After hearing this morning from Mackenzie and McCartney it sounds like we are paying minimal amount next year for Jaeger and Titch which is good so we can potentially move the majority of current players contract money into the next couple of years so when we are ready to compete we can target 2-4 high profile free agents and to compliment the list.

To put a positive spin on the trades yesterday based on points etc we hope that we have traded Titch and bought in Stephens and a late 20s pick and we traded Jaeger and bought in Meek and a late 20s pick.

So fingers crossed that Davey is bid in the teens in the upcoming draft so we can bundle 3 or 4 of our 3rd round picks this year for Essendon's Pick 22 which will give them a lot more points to match that and gets us back to 3 picks in the Top 30 this year.

Then fingers crossed that the Dogs miss the 8 next year so the F2 is in that late 20s bracket.

Why do Essendon need help matching?

They have the points (more than us) and are not handing a rival pick 22 for a bunch of late picks in a weak draft.

Pick 22 will cost one of our future seconds if we want it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Eye on the prize, people. #toosoon

 

[Rhayader]

"On Thursday morning there was condemnation for Hawthorn’s apparent decision to force O’Meara and Mitchell out the door.

Barrett said on afl.com.au, O’Meara wanted to stay at Hawthorn with the prospect of a trade only beginning to be seriously discussed in the last days of the trade period.

“There’s a level of hurt here for how he’s been treated by the club that got him across from the Gold Coast Suns and made him leader because of his qualities.

“For two years in a row he’s been forced to endure conversations around where he’s going to be and this year he’s out.”

Journalist Josh Gabelich also criticised the Hawks for how it treated the two senior players.

“It’s happened too quickly,” he said on AFL Daily.

“We saw it last year with Luke Breust – he had a 48 hour window and he stayed. Jaeger O’Meara gave it the all clear in the end. I just don’t know if this is the way to treat two players, who have been really significant members of that team.”

Is Hawthorn supposed to somehow make the Giants ask for Jaeger earlier? And the Mitchell deal was always on, it just was held up by other parties/trades

 

[yeahmate]

Yeah sorry i dont barrack for my football team to lose

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Eye on the prize, people. #toosoon

Better than JHF highlights, albeit against kids