Rumour Hawks Interested in Mumford???

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savagelunchbox said:
Seeking out the shepparder is not the same as running the other way.
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Yeah, you rock yourself to sleep with that thought. Meanwhile the rest of us will acknowledge he does run defensively but has plenty of scope to improve.

Hill is our most outside player (by role) and Sewell is our most inside player by role. Lets compare stats. I'll also include Lewis Jetta in the comparison who plays a similar role for Sydney and Grant Birchal how is a running player for Hawthorn.

Tackles (per game)
H - 2
S - 5
J - 3.3
B - 1.4
Given his role and size I think he is doing well.

Contested Possessions
H - 4.9
S - 8.2
J - 3.4
B - 5.3
Better than Jetta, similar to Birchall and not too far away from an alleged 'contested footy beast'.

Rebound 50
H - 1.2
S - 1.1
J - 1.5
B - 3.8
Pretty much in line with everyone but Birchall who is the only player to actually play in the back line.

Inside 50

H - 3.1
S - 4
J - 3.9
B - 2.6
Again, pretty much in line.

Goal Assists
H - 0.6
S - 0.4
J - 0.6
B - 0.3
Again, pretty much in line.
One Percenters
H - 0.5
S - 0.9
J - 1.4
B - 1.5
In line with sewell. A bit behind the other two.
So in terms of effort in defence and in contests etc. he is not far away from the rest of the numbers these other players are putting in. Yes he has work to do but it isn't a sorry tale of woe like you and others are making out.
 
Defense wins premierships and despite what the stats show you, when you watch him, he applies little. His offensive side is fine, that doesn't concern me. It's his lack of chasing, lack of physical pressure on ball handlers and his lack of tackling moving players that worry me and a lot of others. You know, the stuff that doesn't get recorded on the stat sheet. Wouldn't surprise if he was given a free pass on that because of his outside offensive running and the clubs lack of it.
 

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savagelunchbox said:
Defense wins premierships and despite what the stats show you, when you watch him, he applies little. His offensive side is fine, that doesn't concern me. It's his lack of chasing, lack of physical pressure on ball handlers and his lack of tackling moving players that worry me and a lot of others. You know, the stuff that doesn't get recorded on the stat sheet. Wouldn't surprise if he was given a free pass on that because of his outside offensive running and the clubs lack of it.
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This!
 
I don't think he is finals material as of yet (hopefully in years to come) but it is unfair to be so critical of him because the defensive side of his game is sub par. He is the youngest player in the side and is only finding his way. His defensive game will improve with more games in him.

To think when I clicked on this thread I'd be reading about Mumford...
 
savagelunchbox said:
Defense wins premierships and despite what the stats show you, when you watch him, he applies little. His offensive side is fine, that doesn't concern me. It's his lack of chasing, lack of physical pressure on ball handlers and his lack of tackling moving players that worry me and a lot of others. You know, the stuff that doesn't get recorded on the stat sheet. Wouldn't surprise if he was given a free pass on that because of his outside offensive running and the clubs lack of it.
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I though it was just me that had noticed this, the negativity i copped had me starting to question what I had been seeing, I noticed this earlier on in the year and tried to ignore it, I then watched him very closely the past 6 weeks and it confirmed to me his defensive limitations.

No doubt he is doing bloody good for a second year player, I adore his offensive play but I personally don't think he is ready defensively for finals football....these are no ordinary H&W matches these games separate the men from the boys, If you're not 100% committed to the contest or defensively, you and the club will be found wanting. That's my reasoning for having Anderson in the side at the expense of Hill.
 
savagelunchbox said:
Defense wins premierships and despite what the stats show you, when you watch him, he applies little. His offensive side is fine, that doesn't concern me. It's his lack of chasing, lack of physical pressure on ball handlers and his lack of tackling moving players that worry me and a lot of others. You know, the stuff that doesn't get recorded on the stat sheet. Wouldn't surprise if he was given a free pass on that because of his outside offensive running and the clubs lack of it.
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You've still got to kick goals, mate!
It's not all about defence, unless you enjoy watching teams coached by Roos, Lyons et al.

Hill provides a running outlet, and he is often on the end of a move.

Next time you're at the footy, watch Hill - he makes runs all over the ground, although not always rewarded. He doesn't often get the ball, but he's making space, dragging opposition players with him.

And I love the way Hill moves, he's just so smooth!

.
 
Hoogmeister said:
I don't think he is finals material as of yet (hopefully in years to come) but it is unfair to be so critical of him because the defensive side of his game is sub par. He is the youngest player in the side and is only finding his way. His defensive game will improve with more games in him.
...
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Thank you.:thumbsu:
 
Davo23 said:
You've still got to kick goals, mate!
It's not all about defence, unless you enjoy watching teams coached by Roos, Lyons et al.

Hill provides a running outlet, and he is often on the end of a move.

Next time you're at the footy, watch Hill - he makes runs all over the ground, although not always rewarded. He doesn't often get the ball, but he's making space, dragging opposition players with him.

And I love the way Hill moves, he's just so smooth!

.
Click to expand...
I don't recall being critical of his offensive game.
1st/2nd year player is not a get-out excuse for not applying defensive pressure.

Luke Bruest 2011 anyone?
 
savagelunchbox said:
I don't recall being critical of his offensive game.
1st/2nd year player is not a get-out excuse for not applying defensive pressure.

Luke Bruest 2011 anyone?
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He plays a very important role.

Take a closer look at the MCG on Friday - you see very little on TV.

.
 
dipper86 said:
I though it was just me that had noticed this, the negativity i copped had me starting to question what I had been seeing, I noticed this earlier on in the year and tried to ignore it, I then watched him very closely the past 6 weeks and it confirmed to me his defensive limitations.

No doubt he is doing bloody good for a second year player, I adore his offensive play but I personally don't think he is ready defensively for finals football....these are no ordinary H&W matches these games separate the men from the boys, If you're not 100% committed to the contest or defensively, you and the club will be found wanting. That's my reasoning for having Anderson in the side at the expense of Hill.
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You said this.

"Hills inability at putting his body on the line/chase and tackle has nothing to do with his physical attributes and has everything to do with his mental application."

"Perhaps Anderson who is younger lighter and thinner than Hill wasn't listening when the order by the coaching staff was issued....you have got to be kidding."


"majority of us all vomit at the thought of Yarran, yet we contradict ourselves when we have a player in Hill that is not willing to put his body on the line not willing to tackle and not willing to chase, in fact if there is even a hint of body contact he pulls out. As soft as Yarran is he is nowhere in the vicinity of Hill. Yarran is at least willing to tackle, no doubt he has weaknesses work rate for one. That can be worked on though. A couple of weeks ago, he did something that I would never though he would be capable of doing, running back with the flight of the ball to take a mark. That takes some balls."

Pretty sure that is why you copped a bit of negativity Dipper, as I think it doesn't reflect accurately on Hill's efforts this year, and his bravery to contribute as much as he has considering how young and under-developed he is. He definitely has to work on his ability to compete in contests and put pressure on defensively for full games, but I don't think that he deserves to be criticism for lack of effort or mental application.
 
I will just put this out there for you guys. Lewis Jetta is one of the biggest squibs in the game but he was playing in the most defensively minded team in the AFL. They rate their game by the amount of tackles they achieve by the end of the game. If Lewis Jetta has a role in that team then brad hille has a role in our team.
 

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cschreuder61 said:
You said this.

"Hills inability at putting his body on the line/chase and tackle has nothing to do with his physical attributes and has everything to do with his mental application."

"Perhaps Anderson who is younger lighter and thinner than Hill wasn't listening when the order by the coaching staff was issued....you have got to be kidding."


"majority of us all vomit at the thought of Yarran, yet we contradict ourselves when we have a player in Hill that is not willing to put his body on the line not willing to tackle and not willing to chase, in fact if there is even a hint of body contact he pulls out. As soft as Yarran is he is nowhere in the vicinity of Hill. Yarran is at least willing to tackle, no doubt he has weaknesses work rate for one. That can be worked on though. A couple of weeks ago, he did something that I would never though he would be capable of doing, running back with the flight of the ball to take a mark. That takes some balls."

Pretty sure that is why you copped a bit of negativity Dipper, as I think it doesn't reflect accurately on Hill's efforts this year, and his bravery to contribute as much as he has considering how young and under-developed he is. He definitely has to work on his ability to compete in contests and put pressure on defensively for full games, but I don't think that he deserves to be criticism for lack of effort or mental application.
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I can see how the Yarran comment may have drawn negativity.
In saying that I still don't believe HILL goes in for the hard ball or is willing to go for the hardball. I'm not talking about reckless courage either. I don't believe your physical limitations dictates if you go in hard for the contested football, I don't believe strength plays a part in whether you go in for the hard football. It may help you win the contest after you go in for the hard football or even give you confidence to go in for the hardball but ultimately its a mental attitude first and foremost..its a choice, to provide a contest or not to provide a contest. This is why I used Anderson as an example, he is thinner, he is lighter, but he chooses to go in hard when his physical limitations (muscle mass weight) says otherwise, this is his mentality, whether he wins or loses the situation because of his strength is beside the point, to provide a contest is his first thought.
You could be Micky Conlan, have all the muscles and strength in the world, but if you don't have a mindset to go into the contest or put your body on the line....your physical attributes are useless in a contested situation.

The reason I added Yarran into the debate in another thread is because people were claiming he was soft, Hill is younger I get you on that point, it wasn't fair........ I still find it a little contradicting though. Hill once his body develops will provide him with a greater confidence with his physicality.....he will be a hell of a lot of a more complete player down the track. I look forward to this.

The ultimate point i'm trying to make is that if I had a choice between Hill and and Anderson for the last spot in our Grand Final side, I would be going for Anderson, untill i see a difference in Hill's game physically and defensively. I will continue with my opinion....after all its just an opinion.

I will state once again he has been very good in his second year of AFL football, his offensive player has been a breath of fresh air.....I just don't think he's ready for the heat of contested football in a Final/Grandfinal, nor from his current output can i see him pull his weight defensively, the stop chasing attitude at the hint of sheppard is one instance where I believe its not acceptable for finals football let alone a H&W match.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope he does improve the defensive aspects of his game in the next 6 weeks off football.
 
I will reserve my judgement on hill until I have seen him in finals given he hasnt played any. But I suspect he will be very useful. 2nd year player who has run himself into the ground does not deserve this sort of labelling by some supporters.
 
I know this the Mummy thread but I will continue on Hill just briefly.
Did anyone hear the comments of Cam Mooney?
He implied Hill would play a very important role in our finals campaign because of his run.
Imagine how slow we would look without him?
He can also play on the fast guys like Jetta which he did earlier this year.
For those with short memories, Jetta didn't get out the back of us once that night.
While he touched Hill up for touches, Jetta didn't have any influence.
Hill is in the team to play his role.
 
Roger Rogerson said:
I will reserve my judgement on hill until I have seen him in finals given he hasnt played any. But I suspect he will be very useful. 2nd year player who has run himself into the ground does not deserve this sort of labelling by some supporters.
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And yet you rip out a comment like this out.

I just cant help but think the team is a lot better balanced without both Young and Suckling who are as good as useless one on one in a life or death contested ball situation.
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http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/thanks-clinton.999700/page-2#post-27835684

What are you implying here! " next to useless in a life or death contested situation" its a very bold way of describing the ability of these two players.

Young is another player on here that has been had his physicality questioned on this board.

Hill has shown no more ability than any of the 2 above players in contested situations and in a defensive aspect, in fact I think he has shown less and I also think he lacks less intensity at the ball and the man in a contested situation. Untill his mindset changes this won't change. He is young I understand that, but he also has the ability to change that mindset though other aspects including the confidence gained with the physical improvement of his body in the coming years.. but right now he still has a choice and its very much in his mind.

At the expense of sounding like a tosser, frankly i don't care..... to try and and make you understand my point of view i will give you an example of an experience I had in my junior years.

I was an extremely short skinny kid at around 15 (year 10) promoted to play for the first 18's at Assumption. I remember a play quite vividly a one on one going for the football, we were both coming from different directions, instead of putting my body on the line when the ball was in contention, I slowed down, allowing my opponent to put his body over the ball and go to ground, I was still on my feet bending over him trying to tackle him, It allowed him to get the hands off which started a play in which they kicked a goal. We lost by 3 points that game. I knew what i should have done was to meet him side on and provide a contest,( let our bodies colide) but honestly I shat myself, this more physically developed boy was going to kill me.. After the game Mr Caroll was kindly enough to get me one on one and tell me it wasn't good or hard enough, and if i wanted another game I sure as hell should be better than that. My team mates were not as kind, being a border of Italian decent among-st aussies was hard enough, having the year 12's ridicule me, cut to the bone. From that day on wards i said i would never miss body contact ever again, the ridicule and embarrassment drove me. I didn't miss another game again barring injuries.

I have seen moments when Hill has done similar in games, I see a bit of Hill in me as gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) as it sounds, I think he has a choice and in finals that choice is unconditional. When its your turn to go, I hope you go! When its your turn to chase I hope you chase and not stop no matter what player tries to shepherd you.
 
dipper86 said:
And yet you rip out a comment like this out.



http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/thanks-clinton.999700/page-2#post-27835684

What are you implying here! " next to useless in a life or death contested situation" its a very bold way of describing the ability of these two players.

Hill has shown no more ability than any of the 2 above players in contested situations and in a defensive aspect, in fact I think he has shown less and I also think he lacks less intensity at the ball and the man in a contested situation. Untill his mindset changes this won't change. He is young i understand that, but he also has the ability to change that mindset though other aspects including the confidence gained with the physical improvement of his body in the coming years.. but right now he still has a choice and its very much in his mind.

At the expense of sounding like a tosser, frankly i don't care..... to try and and make you understand my point of view i will give you an example of an experience I had in my junior years.

I was an extremely short skinny kid at around 15 (year 10) promoted to play for the first 18's at Assumption. I remember a play quite vividly a one on one going for the football, we were both coming from different directions, instead of putting my body on the line when the ball was in contention I allowed my opponent to put his body over the ball and go to ground, I was still on my feet bending over him trying to tackle him, It allowed him to get the hands off which started a play in which they kicked a goal. We lost by 3 points that game. I knew what i should have done was to meet him side on and provide a contest,( let our bodies colide) but honestly I shat myself, this more physically developed boy was going to kill me.. After the game Mr Caroll was kindly enough to get me one on one and tell me it wasn't good or hard enough, and if i wanted another game I sure as hell should be better than that. My team mates were not as kind, being a border of Italian decent among-st aussies was hard enough, having the year 12's ridicule me, cut to the bone. From that day on wards i said i would never miss body contact ever again, the ridicule and embarrassment drove me. I didn't miss another game again barring injuries.

I have seen moments when Hill has done similar in games, I see a bit of Hill in me as gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) as it sounds, I think he has a choice and in finals that choice is unconditional. When its your turn to go, I hope you go! When its your turn to chase I hope you chase and not stop no matter what player tries to shepherd you.
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Hey what years did you go to ACK?
I went there too, from 1984 in year 7 to year 11 in 1988
I'm very good mates to this day with David King, a schoolmate of mine at Assumption!
Spock Carroll is a lovely fella!
 
buddy marvellous said:
Ok cool
I never forget the "war cry " we used to do at 3 qrt time
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era era rum up sitck a bubble in a zipbang golli wog stick to the blue and blue ay,
era era sha sha sha wiga waga wiga waga zim bam ba
Assumption Assumption yah yah yah.............LOL excuse my spelling never had to write it, still have no idea what it meant. :)

It sounds a little racial. "golli wog" maybe I was singing it wrong.
 
dipper86 said:
era era rum up sitck a bubble in a zipbang golli wog stick to the blue and blue ay,
era era sha sha sha wiga waga wiga waga zim bam ba
Assumption Assumption yah yah yah.............LOL excuse my spelling never had to write it, still have no idea what it meant. :)

It sounds a little racial. "golli wog" maybe I was singing it wrong.
Click to expand...
I used to sing eka pecka eka pecka ya ya ya wiga waga wiga waga zim bam ba

Seriously, what the hell did this warcry mean? Haha
 
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