Autopsy Hawks lose another close one to dees

[tige19]

Like the Hawthorn team that was Stratton, Mitchell, Frawley, Shiels, Howe, Burgoyne ect

Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance, Grigg, Short, Graham are a pretty good bunch.. the only player from our list id take confidently would be Mitchell. Both sides are injury riddled but the tigers have a lot more quality and high end talent missing.

 

[SA HAWK]

Chad will come good, he has to much talent and you have to have faith in our system for the long term.. I don’t have issues with his attitude, just want him to give away the little one handers and fancy pants stuff.

Not concerned with what happened at 1/2 time yesterday?

 

[halfback dasher]

Cannot believe the negativity toward a club that's in the middle of a list reshape , who mind you has lost 4 games by an av losing margin of around 10 points .
A team again mind you who's been decimated by injuries this yr .
Just don't get it !!
Is it true that by in large our supporters ARE that delusional that they think we are exempt from mid table performances .....that somehow we have something " magic " that other clubs don't have ....


Sorry , but IMO we are where we should be right now so I'd suggest you back us in rather than tear us down people ....

 

[Hawk_francais]

My take:

The last few weeks we haven't seen much to get excited about in terms of team play. Individual efforts have been commendable. Gunston, Breust, McEvoy, Sicily, Jaeger, Worpel, Henderson, Hardwick, Shiels and others. The rest have been quarter by quarter prospects. For many of those players I see good excuses (injury, youth, age, new to the club). We're not operating well as a team, but I look and the coaching group and I know they'll iron things out, I have confidence that we're on the right path.

After losing Mitchell it was said that Worpel or Cousins would need to step up to fill the void, to which Clarko always responded that it would need a full team effort. I don't think it was just hot air, we really needed everyone at their best to cover such a loss. Unfortunately we simply haven't had our best players at their best in my opinion. We're yet to play in a manner where we give ourselves control over a game.

We have a huge task next week and I'm glad of that. This is no time to be meekly sparring with another cellar-dweller. If we don't show some steel and play for each other next week we will get blown off the park. The players know that better than anyone and I expect we will see a response. Clarko didn't call us a middle-of the road team just for the benefit of the media.

As this is an autopsy thread it's worth noting that M. Lewis is looking the goods, I'm excited that Scrimshaw might be back in next week.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Henderson or Puopolo dropped this week. Not because I think either of them have played that poorly, but because Moore and Morrison might be more relevant to our ambitions for the rest of this season.

 

[tige19]

Not concerned with what happened at 1/2 time yesterday?

Not overly mate.. like many lads here, I’ve played in games where it gets heated with your teammates, I actually thought chad handled it ok considering he had some club legends giving him a fair whack.

 

[Hawkers Heroes]

Cannot believe the negativity toward a club that's in the middle of a list reshape , who mind you has lost 4 games by an av losing margin of around 10 points .
A team again mind you who's been decimated by injuries this yr .
Just don't get it !!
Is it true that by in large our supporters ARE that delusional that they think we are exempt from mid table performances .....that somehow we have something " magic " that other clubs don't have ....


Sorry , but IMO we are where we should be right now so I'd suggest you back us in rather than tear us down people ....

I think the simple thing is we lost to Melbourne who have half of their players out and we had TOM out, I can understand that posters would be upset at this.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

When you are already thin in the midfield, you lose your #1 (Mitchell) for the season, your #2 (O'Meara) is a long-term injury maintenance issue and your #5 (Worpel) and #6 (Cousins) are still developing their tanks the midfield battle will always be an issue. Howe and Shiels are good "B" graders at best - they cannot be expected to win a midfield by themselves against a dominant opposing ruck. Mitchell would have made a difference here.

Early on, we were full of run - Smith, Scully, Henderson - even Worpel and O'Meara were everywhere. Importantly, McEvoy was matching Gawn around the contest - the Dees onballers were struggling to get hands on the ball, and we were winning both the inside and outside game. By the time Smith went off late in the 1st, Gawn had already started to show ascendancy over McEvoy, and our "B" team rotations were being comprehensively beaten. It was our outside run/rebound that was giving us attacking momentum.

From the end of the first quarter onwards - McEvoy was absolutely thrashed. Gawn was tremendous, giving silver service to his onballers. Harmes was exceptional in tagging O'Meara out of the contest, then spreading to receive, very Ling-esque in it's application. Shiels/Howe were busy trying to stop their opponent, whilst Worpel/Shiels were caught trying to win the ball, whilst their opponent was being spoon-fed by Gawn. We needed to go full-defensive, stop trying to be aggressive (McEvoy cannot direct ruck taps even if he is on top, but is usually decent at stopping an opponent), and stop Melbourne's inside dominance.

Instead, we continued to play an attacking game, bringing the Demons outside players into the action - exposing Brand (especially) in defence. Given the quantity and uncontested nature of the Demons forward entries, I thought Brand and TOB (especially) acquitted themselves well - certainly better than could be expected from their previous performances.

After half time we did adjust, played a far more defensively orientated onball unit, but the damage was done - Gawn was in ultimate control, his onballers could attack without consideration for any loss, and virtually every "contest" became an easy takeaway for the Ds. We desperately needed McEvoy to stand up to Gawn, but he didn't/couldn't and without a superstar inside ball-winner (Tom), with JOM subject to a tight tag at the contest, and with Shiels/Howe unable to generate any drive we were slow and reactive.

Then, as our running options depleted/disappeared, we resorted to the "long bomb to the wing" tactic - seeking McEvoy to at least provide a contest. Unfortunately, more often than not he took Gawn with him, completely nullifying the advantage and success Lewis was having in transitional play. Knowing Gawn was there and would beat McEvoy, Lewis' opponent could now almost forget about the ball and simply nullify Lewis as a marking option.

In retrospect, we probably needed Ceglar to come in, just to physically work over Gawn in tandem with McEvoy. Like Goldstein and other dominant (tall) tap rucks, we need to push them to physical exhaustion so they become ineffectual.

I had us 6-1 at this point pre-season - even after the Mitchell injury I thought we would be at worse 5-2. Despite that start, I thought we would only win 14 games for the season (12 post-mitchell). At 3-4, I think we are on a razor's edge for finals - we now need to 'steal' 1-2 extra wins. The season is close enough for that to be a possibility, so finals are not (yet) out of our reach, but the season is about to get a lot harder from here on in.

I think Worpel needs a rest, perhaps with Cousins back - but we are so thin in the midfield that we cannot run out games effectively, and any injury is enough to shut down the 'machine'.

Curiously, I only think we are 2 players off being top-4 competitive (Mitchell and ?), and perhaps 3 off being an outside premiership contender. We still have the squad to make finals - but we must find a way to get our fitness to a level we can play out whole quarters and games - at the moment we are probably 10 minutes short of just finishing a game, let alone increasing the amount of time we can play as a hard-running, aggressive unit. I doubt that can be made up during the season, but there are so many "mediocre" teams, that some will still play finals.

 

[Bawks]

my take, as clarko would say, its never as bad as it seems, and its never as good... a bit of tinkering and we will be ok. brand is not afl standard, make the call and move on from him, we need more midfield rotations, cuz coming back in can help and maybe we put scrimshaw through there a little bit during the rest of the year, just to see if a big body, nice skilled, great below his knees type could be turned into a big bodied gun mid that all the good teams seem to have one of... Our forward half needs some flair in the air. its dysfunctional, partly due to personal, but mainly due to our slow ball movement. when birchall comes back throw sicily forward and leave him there... pump games into lewis o brien worpel kosi and scrimshaw etc for the rest of the year, play with a bit more speed in preparation for next year and go all out in making sure we land McGuiness and Anderson

 

[11sjw]

Not concerned with what happened at 1/2 time yesterday?

I didn't see it. How big was the talking to he copped?

 

[halfback dasher]

I think the simple thing is we lost to Melbourne who have half of their players out and we had TOM out, I can understand that posters would be upset at this.

See this bothers me ...
post accurately please .

 

[Hawkers Heroes]

See this bothers me ...
post accurately please .

It doesn't bother me as I have said this year is transition period but other posters expect a bit to much this year.

 

[tige19]

I didn't see it. How big was the talking to he copped?

It seemed verbal and direct, just standard teammates telling you how it is except it was 3-4 of the leaders all doing it to Chad.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

It seemed verbal and direct, just standard teammates telling you how it is except it was 3-4 of the leaders all doing it to Chad.

He needs it.

Dropped the game yesterday

 

[Hawks1994]

Didn't see the full game yesterday and subsequently only saw about 10 minutes total of play, but it just seems to me that 80% of the list are horribly out of form. Players who are usually a very reliable kick are missing easy targets, players who are usually strong tacklers are letting opposition players get by and overall there just seems to be a disconnect between everyone.

Simply put, we can't (at this present time) score enough points to win games. That may seem a ridiculously obvious statement, but it is the basic elements of the game where we are lacking.

I've got faith that we will be able to turn it around, I mean, it's highly unlikely for so many players to go a full season all out of form. An adjustment in the style of play wouldn't be out of the question either

 

[Cyzzametimbres]

He needs it.

Dropped the game yesterday

4x 20min qtrs and 21 other guys out there. 1 moment doesn’t make or break a game. I’m sure there was plenty of turnovers, missed goals and bad umpiring calls during the game.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

4x 20min qtrs and 21 other guys out there. 1 moment doesn’t make or break a game. I’m sure there was plenty of turnovers, missed goals and bad umpiring calls during the game.

Had the chance to be a Hawthorn immortal with a goal after the siren...but it was not to be

 

[Cyzzametimbres]

Had the chance to be a Hawthorn immortal with a goal after the siren...but it was not to be

Frost managed to knock the ball out and then drill him with a tackle. It wasn’t a sitter and he almost pulled it off.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Frost managed to knock the ball out and then drill him with a tackle. It wasn’t a sitter and he almost pulled it off.

In the long run, it was probably the best outcome

 

[tige19]

He needs it.

Dropped the game yesterday

The one handers need to stop

 

[Off The Couch]

He needs it.

Dropped the game yesterday

I obviously don’t have the same expectations as others. Wasn’t a great game but he’s having a go. Missed a couple of shots on goal but so did Gunners, dropped some marks he may have taken had he used two hands, but Hendo and BB also dropped some absolute sitters. Gets involved in the contests, Attacks the ball and has second and third efforts but unfortunately it’s just not coming together for him.

Maybe he isn’t playing to the team rules and hence the “chat” at half time but he is also still getting to know the side - I think we forget how lost JOM and Mitch looked in their first season with us.

The expectations on Scully is another that has me scratching my head. The guy according to all and sundry shouldn’t even be out there but here we are with the expectation that he should be doing more or that he had a down day.

**** me can we just cut them some slack.

 

[hk89]

Also while Geelong going so well it’s annoying, but it should also serve to show us an example where remaining competitive can also work. They’ve had their share of draft and trading busts since 2011. Eight years now

We should also keep in mind that Geelong's last flag was 4 years earlier than our own. That should put them 4 years ahead of us on their build towards their next flag. They've messed up a few picks and trades along the way, so they probably are not a full 4 years ahead, maybe more like 2. At the end of last year after they dropped out in the elim final , people were saying they had wasted several years trying to stay out of the bottom 6, and they should just go the full rebuild. In fact they've said that about Geelong nearly every year since 2011. Here we are, only the next season , and they are looking good after they've pulled off a couple of decent trades over the pre-season and some kids who have done an apprenticeship in the VFL for them over the last 2-3 years are starting to step up.

I reckon we could do a similar thing if the club holds their nerve, and ignores the external noise about 'time for a full rebuild' that we are seeing echoed in a lot of posts in this thread. Geelong did, and it has worked out for them, and I reckon we have more talent in our core under 29 group than they had 2 years ago.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

I obviously don’t have the same expectations as others. Wasn’t a great game but he’s having a go, missed a couple of shots on goal but so did Gunners, dropped some marks he may have taken had he used two hands, but Hendo and BB also dropped some absolute sitters. Gets involved in the contests, Attacks the ball and has second and third efforts but unfortunately it’s just not coming together for him.

Maybe he isn’t playing to the team rules and hence the “chat” at half time but he is also still getting to know the side - I think we forget how lost JOM and Mitch looked in their first season with us.

The expectations on Scully is another that has me scratching my head. The guy according to all and sundry shouldn’t even be out there but here we are with the expectation that he should be doing more or that he had a down day.

**** me can we just cut them some slack.

Scully is fine. Not worried at all.

Wingard will be a different beast. We will see some good performances late in the year. Just needs confidence in us and the game plan

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

No but listening to his press conference yesterday suggests to me he is starting to second guess our game style and current list profile right now and where we are headed.

That to me is the worry when you are caught between thinking you can keep topping up to go again and realistically understanding where you are at as a footy club.

If he is questioning the game style that's a good thing, it's better to address or restructure at this time of the year than when it's too late. Who knows it might actually bring the best out of the boys. We will probably get opened up a bit more but we have enough firepower to kick more than the opposition under any circumstance if we're playing the right way. Interesting to see how it turns out

 

[TylerDurden]

We should also keep in mind that Geelong's last flag was 4 years earlier than our own. That should put them 4 years ahead of us on their build towards their next flag. They've messed up a few picks and trades along the way, so they probably are not a full 4 years ahead, maybe more like 2. At the end of last year after they dropped out in the elim final , people were saying they had wasted several years trying to stay out of the bottom 6, and they should just go the full rebuild. In fact they've said that about Geelong nearly every year since 2011. Here we are, only the next season , and they are looking good after they've pulled off a couple of decent trades over the pre-season and some kids who have done an apprenticeship in the VFL for them over the last 2-3 years are starting to step up.

I reckon we could do a similar thing if the club holds their nerve, and ignores the external noise about 'time for a full rebuild' that we are seeing echoed in a lot of posts in this thread. Geelong did, and it has worked out for them, and I reckon we have more talent in our core under 29 group than they had 2 years ago.

Spot on. And the club will never listen to external noise with these calls. Wright and Clarko are methodical with the list.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I

I don’t think we’re too far away, but it ain’t gonna happen for us this year.

We’ve got enough talent on our list to fill out spots 8-25. Some of them are kids and need more games (our flag years were not carrying multiple blokes with under 50 games). eg scrimshaw, Moore, Morrison, cousins, Lewis.

I reckon we just need 3-4 more stars.
- Mitchell back is one.
- Cogs would be number 2 if we can pull it off.
- we desperately need Lewis to turn into an A grader. It’s a punt and we don’t have a backup.
- not clear where another superstar comes from.


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I would argue we get Cogs, Brodie and Patton this off season it changes the landscape dramatically. Need to remember next year we get Tom back and fingers crossed a full pre season from Chad and we will all of a sudden have options in the midfield were we can compete for longer. Worpel drops back to the 5th mid if all things go to plan. That's pretty good depth.