Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Lockie]

The amount of pressure that Chris Falan must be under in regards to this would be extraordinary. I have wondered what toll this has taken on him this season and how he’s had to balance a stressful high profile job of AFL coaching and terrible allegations made against him when he is not able to comment about that. I can’t imagine how difficult that would be.

I’m emphatic to all that have been involved in this, but the way it’s been leaked and handled has not been good.

 

[BuntonRules]

I think it had gone away for most people.
If Rioli and co had not said they may take it to the Supreme court that would have been the end of it.
Hopefully they decide not to, but lawyers are involved, and they usually want to go to court

There is a thing called closure. Until this is played out, there is no closure.

 

[martinson]

There is a thing called closure. Until this is played out, there is no closure.

Just trawling through history on matters and events far more significant than this it's interesting how often a narrative totally removed from the likely truth can gain momentum and be peddled to the next generation who were never there when the events were unfolding as fact.

I can totally understand why Fagan wants his day in court and the frustration this must be causing him but unfortunately I doubt he's ever going to get it. Which in the end will probably be less stressful ,minus the closure.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Just a complete farce from day one. And to think we had people ready to hang Chris Fagan.

He’s probably been too nice for his own good by trying to deal with it civilly and through mediated talks.

 

[McIvor]

 

[M Malice]

Interesting to note that during the show the Chris Fagan nod was mentioned and apparently Fagan says he was not even at the meeting where the racist nod was allegedly performed.

 

[McIvor]

Interesting to note that during the show the Chris Fagan nod was mentioned and apparently Fagan says he was not even at the meeting where the racist nod was allegedly performed.

It’s been farcical the moment the story broke. Can’t help but think it’s effected his coaching; how can it not have. Most coaches are all but consumed by their job yet poor old Fages focus has been wasted on this BS which I still maintain has been nothing but a cash grab.

 

[Nunez]

"Chris, what type of nod did you do?"

"What do you mean?"

"You know, was it a friendly nod or..."

"... Or what? An unfriendly nod?! How can a nod be unfriendly?!"

"Not unfriendly..."

Whispers "was it a racist nod?"

Queue Curb theme

 

[Grasshopper17]

This has dodgy pub covers band written all over it

This Friday at the Boundary Hotel come and see The Racist Nods!

 

[M Malice]

"Chris, what type of nod did you do?"

"What do you mean?"

"You know, was it a friendly nod or..."

"... Or what? An unfriendly nod?! How can a nod be unfriendly?!"

"Not unfriendly..."

Whispers "was it a racist nod?"

Queue Curb theme

And was THE nod accompanied by an eyeroll and/or shoulder shrug.

 

[Nunez]

And was THE nod accompanied by an eyeroll and/or shoulder shrug.

"No nod! No eye role! Maybe a twitch?"

 

[Dom PC]

Real head scratcher this one. How could the accusations be so far off the mark... this all still gives me disgruntled former employee vibes.

ABC should have done so much more to ensure their news piece was properly vetted. If someone is lying and the ABC have leveraged those lies into a juicy news story, I hope the people impacted sue the crap out of them.

It's a good reminder for people to ensure they get two sides of the story before you go casting stones.

 

[Maboo]

Real head scratcher this one. How could the accusations be so far off the mark... this all still gives me disgruntled former employee vibes.

ABC should have done so much more to ensure their news piece was properly vetted. If someone is lying and the ABC have leveraged those lies into a juicy news story, I hope the people impacted sue the crap out of them.

It's a good reminder for people to ensure they get two sides of the story before you go casting stones.

So much for the respected journalist Mr Jackson is, more like your garden variety tabloid rubbish masquerading as such.

 

[martinson]

Real head scratcher this one. How could the accusations be so far off the mark... this all still gives me disgruntled former employee vibes.

ABC should have done so much more to ensure their news piece was properly vetted. If someone is lying and the ABC have leveraged those lies into a juicy news story, I hope the people impacted sue the crap out of them.

It's a good reminder for people to ensure they get two sides of the story before you go casting stones.

This is par for the course in any investigative 'expose' from the ABC where I've known the true facts of the story Dom.

So I'm not surprised at all . Though this one is more recent than my experience it's still clear from comments from ABC journalists that have reached the media either by tweets or design that they still go in with a preconceived story these days. Finding circumstances to fit the narrative of their pet hobby horses.

 

[rye]

cant see fagan coaching if this goes to court, litigation will be very taxing for all involved.

 

[martinson]

cant see fagan coaching if this goes to court, litigation will be very taxing for all involved.

It seems unlikely that the claimants will have knocked back 50k each unless they have a belief or have been advised that there's more in it. There's been plenty of work done by their legal side so it's hard to see those costs being met by what's been offered so far so I'm thinking they'll progress it to a more serious jurisdiction and try to settle prior to or during the proceedings.

You wouldn't think they'd want it to get to the finding stage.

But as to your point that could go on for 3 years so it's hard to see Fagan and Clarkson continuing in their roles as every bit of dirt that can be dug up is fed to the claimants allies in the media.

Sad.

 

[Elixuh]

It seems unlikely that the claimants will have knocked back 50k each unless they have a belief or have been advised that there's more in it. There's been plenty of work done by their legal side so it's hard to see those costs being met by what's been offered so far so I'm thinking they'll progress it to a more serious jurisdiction and try to settle prior to or during the proceedings.

You wouldn't think they'd want it to get to the finding stage.

But as to your point that could go on for 3 years so it's hard to see Fagan and Clarkson continuing in their roles as every bit of dirt that can be dug up is fed to the claimants allies in the media.

Sad.

They roughly know how much Hawthorn has set aside for this via the AGM. They know Hawthorn does not want this going to court. The PR for hawthorn will be terrible for them.

So 50k pp is a lowball.

Alternatively, no amount of money may be acceptable to the complainants.

 

[rye]

It seems unlikely that the claimants will have knocked back 50k each unless they have a belief or have been advised that there's more in it. There's been plenty of work done by their legal side so it's hard to see those costs being met by what's been offered so far so I'm thinking they'll progress it to a more serious jurisdiction and try to settle prior to or during the proceedings.

You wouldn't think they'd want it to get to the finding stage.

But as to your point that could go on for 3 years so it's hard to see Fagan and Clarkson continuing in their roles as every bit of dirt that can be dug up is fed to the claimants allies in the media.

Sad.

theres definitely more money to be offered, 50k to each seems like a pretty low settlement given the resources held by hawthorn and the afl.... my guess is this is token money and the lawyers dont see the complainants case as having much prospects of success before the court.

 

[M Malice]

This is par for the course in any investigative 'expose' from the ABC where I've known the true facts of the story Dom.

So I'm not surprised at all . Though this one is more recent than my experience it's still clear from comments from ABC journalists that have reached the media either by tweets or design that they still go in with a preconceived story these days. Finding circumstances to fit the narrative of their pet hobby horses.

Sadly in this age of saturated 24/7 movie coverage and with so many traditional MSM and alternate sources the bolded is not going to change IMO.

Both left and right sides of media coverage pander to their side and come from a confirmation bias mindset/narrative.

 

[Maboo]

It seems unlikely that the claimants will have knocked back 50k each unless they have a belief or have been advised that there's more in it. There's been plenty of work done by their legal side so it's hard to see those costs being met by what's been offered so far so I'm thinking they'll progress it to a more serious jurisdiction and try to settle prior to or during the proceedings.

You wouldn't think they'd want it to get to the finding stage.

But as to your point that could go on for 3 years so it's hard to see Fagan and Clarkson continuing in their roles as every bit of dirt that can be dug up is fed to the claimants allies in the media.

Sad.

Sad it is, but I really think Fages wouldn’t be too concerned about any skeletons etc. As long as his press conferences aren’t brought to light he should be fine.

 

[Maboo]

This is the latest from Robbo and the Herald Sun​

Independent report says racism was present at Hawthorn​

​

AFL​

Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
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An independent report says the treatment of First Nations players and their families when at Hawthorn constituted racism.
The report, prepared by Deakin professor Yin Paradies and provided to AFL investigators, also said the families could be subject to “victim blaming” as a consequence of levelling claims of racism against Hawthorn and former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
The report, commissioned by lawyers for the First Nations families, assessed the claims made by the families, including claims of separation, and also determined the impact on their health.
Prof Paradies, one of Australia’s research leaders on the health and societal effects of racism, also found that other First Nations players could now be reluctant to speak up if they were confronted with racism.

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan during their time at Hawthorn.
“Ongoing instances of racism within an organisation or system are indicative of an environment that is tolerant of racism,” Prof Paradies said in his report.
“Such an environment tends to result in reduced trust in management … and perceived lack of organisational support to address and respond to racism.
“This would likely have a dampening effect on the willingness of First Nations players to speak out with their own experiences of racial vilification within the AFL system.
“Ongoing instances of racism are likely to be taken by First Nations players as an indication that racism is tolerated in the AFL and that there is scant chance of positive outcomes eventuating, following their reporting of racist experiences. In fact, in such environments, such reporting of racism is most likely to have negative repercussions, including victim-blaming.
“As noted in a study of racism on the field in Australian junior sport, any formal complaint of racial vilification would require a club to ‘save face by defending their player and denying the racism’. There is thus a tendency to informally investigate, but only as a symbolic non-performative act, with no expectations that any organisational or cultural change would result or that racism would be less likely as a result of ‘going through the motions’ of an informal investigation.’’
In May 2023, the AFL found no adverse findings against former Hawthorn coaches Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. Two investigations, one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal, found there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-2015.
They found the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The Hawthorn racism scandal looks like it won’t be resolved anytime soon. Picture: Getty Images
The Gordon Legal report asserted there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Failed mediation talks in the Human Rights Commissions has now resulted in the claims being heard in the Federal Court.
Professor Paradies’ report will be tabled as evidence at the hearing.
More broadly, his report said the “ongoing incidences of racism” that had been made public were “highly likely” to be the “tip of the iceberg” in relation to the prevalence of racism within AFL clubs.
“Significant, transparent, authentic engaged effort to respond to racism within organisations can – and does – yield reductions in the incidence, prevalence and impacts of racism,’’ the report said. “As such, it is unarguably the case that the ongoing occurrences of racism within the AFL indicate a failure to redress racism and a neglect of the system change required to address the underlying cultural and organisational conditions that continue to allow racism to thrive within the AFL.”
The report said racism could result in “acute and chronic” emotional and psychological impacts for victims.
“The potential mental health impacts of racism include depression, anxiety, psychological stress and poor self-worth,’’ the report said.
“There is evidence that the wellbeing impacts of lack of action by bystanders and authorities is greater than the original impact of (vicarious) racism itself.”
Prof Paradies was part of a 12-person expert group on anti-racism, established as a key recommendation of Collingwood’s Do Better report

 

[Grasshopper17]

This is the latest from Robbo and the Herald Sun​

Independent report says racism was present at Hawthorn​

​

AFL​

Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Follow
An independent report says the treatment of First Nations players and their families when at Hawthorn constituted racism.
The report, prepared by Deakin professor Yin Paradies and provided to AFL investigators, also said the families could be subject to “victim blaming” as a consequence of levelling claims of racism against Hawthorn and former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
The report, commissioned by lawyers for the First Nations families, assessed the claims made by the families, including claims of separation, and also determined the impact on their health.
Prof Paradies, one of Australia’s research leaders on the health and societal effects of racism, also found that other First Nations players could now be reluctant to speak up if they were confronted with racism.

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan during their time at Hawthorn.
“Ongoing instances of racism within an organisation or system are indicative of an environment that is tolerant of racism,” Prof Paradies said in his report.
“Such an environment tends to result in reduced trust in management … and perceived lack of organisational support to address and respond to racism.
“This would likely have a dampening effect on the willingness of First Nations players to speak out with their own experiences of racial vilification within the AFL system.
“Ongoing instances of racism are likely to be taken by First Nations players as an indication that racism is tolerated in the AFL and that there is scant chance of positive outcomes eventuating, following their reporting of racist experiences. In fact, in such environments, such reporting of racism is most likely to have negative repercussions, including victim-blaming.
“As noted in a study of racism on the field in Australian junior sport, any formal complaint of racial vilification would require a club to ‘save face by defending their player and denying the racism’. There is thus a tendency to informally investigate, but only as a symbolic non-performative act, with no expectations that any organisational or cultural change would result or that racism would be less likely as a result of ‘going through the motions’ of an informal investigation.’’
In May 2023, the AFL found no adverse findings against former Hawthorn coaches Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. Two investigations, one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal, found there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-2015.
They found the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The Hawthorn racism scandal looks like it won’t be resolved anytime soon. Picture: Getty Images
The Gordon Legal report asserted there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Failed mediation talks in the Human Rights Commissions has now resulted in the claims being heard in the Federal Court.
Professor Paradies’ report will be tabled as evidence at the hearing.
More broadly, his report said the “ongoing incidences of racism” that had been made public were “highly likely” to be the “tip of the iceberg” in relation to the prevalence of racism within AFL clubs.
“Significant, transparent, authentic engaged effort to respond to racism within organisations can – and does – yield reductions in the incidence, prevalence and impacts of racism,’’ the report said. “As such, it is unarguably the case that the ongoing occurrences of racism within the AFL indicate a failure to redress racism and a neglect of the system change required to address the underlying cultural and organisational conditions that continue to allow racism to thrive within the AFL.”
The report said racism could result in “acute and chronic” emotional and psychological impacts for victims.
“The potential mental health impacts of racism include depression, anxiety, psychological stress and poor self-worth,’’ the report said.
“There is evidence that the wellbeing impacts of lack of action by bystanders and authorities is greater than the original impact of (vicarious) racism itself.”
Prof Paradies was part of a 12-person expert group on anti-racism, established as a key recommendation of Collingwood’s Do Better report

This report report reads like a Paradi.

 

[martinson]

The ABC has egg over its face again but that won't make them in any way contrite. They'll just keep digging.

This is the latest from Robbo and the Herald Sun​

Independent report says racism was present at Hawthorn​

​

AFL​

Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Follow
An independent report says the treatment of First Nations players and their families when at Hawthorn constituted racism.
The report, prepared by Deakin professor Yin Paradies and provided to AFL investigators, also said the families could be subject to “victim blaming” as a consequence of levelling claims of racism against Hawthorn and former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
The report, commissioned by lawyers for the First Nations families, assessed the claims made by the families, including claims of separation, and also determined the impact on their health.
Prof Paradies, one of Australia’s research leaders on the health and societal effects of racism, also found that other First Nations players could now be reluctant to speak up if they were confronted with racism.

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan during their time at Hawthorn.
“Ongoing instances of racism within an organisation or system are indicative of an environment that is tolerant of racism,” Prof Paradies said in his report.
“Such an environment tends to result in reduced trust in management … and perceived lack of organisational support to address and respond to racism.
“This would likely have a dampening effect on the willingness of First Nations players to speak out with their own experiences of racial vilification within the AFL system.
“Ongoing instances of racism are likely to be taken by First Nations players as an indication that racism is tolerated in the AFL and that there is scant chance of positive outcomes eventuating, following their reporting of racist experiences. In fact, in such environments, such reporting of racism is most likely to have negative repercussions, including victim-blaming.
“As noted in a study of racism on the field in Australian junior sport, any formal complaint of racial vilification would require a club to ‘save face by defending their player and denying the racism’. There is thus a tendency to informally investigate, but only as a symbolic non-performative act, with no expectations that any organisational or cultural change would result or that racism would be less likely as a result of ‘going through the motions’ of an informal investigation.’’
In May 2023, the AFL found no adverse findings against former Hawthorn coaches Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. Two investigations, one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal, found there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-2015.
They found the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The Hawthorn racism scandal looks like it won’t be resolved anytime soon. Picture: Getty Images
The Gordon Legal report asserted there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Failed mediation talks in the Human Rights Commissions has now resulted in the claims being heard in the Federal Court.
Professor Paradies’ report will be tabled as evidence at the hearing.
More broadly, his report said the “ongoing incidences of racism” that had been made public were “highly likely” to be the “tip of the iceberg” in relation to the prevalence of racism within AFL clubs.
“Significant, transparent, authentic engaged effort to respond to racism within organisations can – and does – yield reductions in the incidence, prevalence and impacts of racism,’’ the report said. “As such, it is unarguably the case that the ongoing occurrences of racism within the AFL indicate a failure to redress racism and a neglect of the system change required to address the underlying cultural and organisational conditions that continue to allow racism to thrive within the AFL.”
The report said racism could result in “acute and chronic” emotional and psychological impacts for victims.
“The potential mental health impacts of racism include depression, anxiety, psychological stress and poor self-worth,’’ the report said.
“There is evidence that the wellbeing impacts of lack of action by bystanders and authorities is greater than the original impact of (vicarious) racism itself.”
Prof Paradies was part of a 12-person expert group on anti-racism, established as a key recommendation of Collingwood’s Do Better report

Well there goes the first missile. Robbo on board.

An independent report says the headline . With a full scenario laid out to indicate what likely happened at Hawthorn as if fact. And victim blaming thrown in as the first shot.

Unfortunately once something becomes a political football the first thing to go out the window is the truth. It will now be about who has the highest moral ground.

I feel sorry for all involved.

 

[Maboo]

This report report reads like a Paradi.

Ahh grasshopper

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Real head scratcher this one. How could the accusations be so far off the mark... this all still gives me disgruntled former employee vibes.

ABC should have done so much more to ensure their news piece was properly vetted. If someone is lying and the ABC have leveraged those lies into a juicy news story, I hope the people impacted sue the crap out of them.

It's a good reminder for people to ensure they get two sides of the story before you go casting stones.

Absolutely and this nonsense that where there's fire there's smoke , only feeds this hysteria.
It's not always the case, could be totaly false .