Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[dlanod]

Dlanod if they had 2 reports clearing Fagan and CO. it's downright disgusting that they just sat on it .

How is the AFL going to clear Clarkson, Fagan, etc in a report? That's part of the bit I don't get, especially since by all accounts the complainants weren't communicating to anyone. It would've been a write-up saying "we talked only to the people we still employ, here's what we think happened", and it would've been criticised as being pointless. I strongly suspect Mick is oversaucing the pudding here.

 

[Tom14]

I swear anyone who mentions the referendum now has zero idea about referendums in Australia. The voice referendum followed the standard process where an idea starts out with majority support before eventually being defeated due to declining support. Not to mention the lack of bipartisan support, which was another sign it wouldn't be successful.

One of the dumbest own goals to proceed with it once Dutton opposed it. In a functional sense too, changing the constitution to recognise is one of the most empty, token gestures that does nothing substantive.

Was doomed to fail and would have been easy to ignore by anyone who wanted to if it did somehow get up. Lot of ways to undercut it (starve it of funding, don't appoint members to the Voice etc).

From a practical sense a total waste of time that did a lot more harm than good.

 

[Tom14]

Maybe I live under a rock but I've never seen a footy journo put up anything like what Mick put up .

From some of the posts here this is a regular occurrence ? Who else amongst the footy journos ?

I like to incur brain damage from listening to footy podcasts and Mick's opinions on politics were always pretty clear when he appeared on the Herald Sun one. Not saying he's had a heap of opinion articles like this of course.

Mark Stevens was another one who pretty obviously had a political leaning. Lot of more obvious cases when you get into the ex-footy players too, e.g. Luke Darcy.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Pretty accurate article from Mick tho isn't it.

Not sure how you go about assessing a fact-free opinion piece for accuracy

 

[martinson]

I like to incur brain damage from listening to footy podcasts and Mick's opinions on politics were always pretty clear when he appeared on the Herald Sun one. Not saying he's had a heap of opinion articles like this of course.

Mark Stevens was another one who pretty obviously had a political leaning. Lot of more obvious cases when you get into the ex-footy players too, e.g. Luke Darcy.

What about Sam ? I think I know what he thinks , or at least what he wants to put out there to trigger people and get attention.

I'm admittedly out of touch but the majority of the commentary I see from footy journos with any slight political edge is left leaning.

On the other hand when anyone puts up a tweet from an ex Footy player of reasonable maturity they're just angry old white men aren't they ?

If people are employed to report on footy they should steer clear of politics . Just to preserve their own mental health. Because it seems to trigger people in this era more than I can ever remember in my lifetime. And I cut my teeth raging against the Vietnam war.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Not sure how you go about assessing a fact-free opinion piece for accuracy

That's nice. I didn't assess a fact-free piece.

 

[martinson]

That's nice. I didn't assess a fact-free piece.

He talked about facts and gave his opinion.

So for some people the wrong opinion = fact free .

 

[Elixuh]

He talked about facts and gave his opinion.

So for some people the wrong opinion = fact free .

What he said about Fagan and the reports isn’t necessarily fact. And I highly doubt it is.

 

[M Malice]

IMO if Peter Dutton wins the next election he should pardon Chris Fagan, Alistair Clarkson and Jason Burt on his first day as Dictator.

 

[Dalions]

IMO if Peter Dutton wins the next election he should pardon Chris Fagan, Alistair Clarkson and Jason Burt on his first day as Dictator.

I do believe a formal apology should be written to the 3 accused by both the AFL and the Hawthorn Football Club.
The way the whole thing was handled right from the start was a disgrace.

 

[martinson]

What he said about Fagan and the reports isn’t necessarily fact. And I highly doubt it is.

Just re read it . You're talking about the 2 reports allegedly clearing him ? Either their existence or their contents , or the manner in which they were handled ?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Can only assume that Mick's all for the AFL's bullying, cronyism, coercion and cover-ups just as long as they don't go woke.

 

[martinson]

How is the AFL going to clear Clarkson, Fagan, etc in a report? That's part of the bit I don't get, especially since by all accounts the complainants weren't communicating to anyone. It would've been a write-up saying "we talked only to the people we still employ, here's what we think happened", and it would've been criticised as being pointless. I strongly suspect Mick is oversaucing the pudding here.

Well you could be right.

Now that it's all over I presume nothing in the settlement would preclude the AFL from releasing their findings. Unless of course they're prejudicial to the AFL . Or maybe reflect poorly on anyone else involved and they'll just let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[knaf]

Yep that was what I took out of it as well, the woke stuff is just amusing.

"In the year of the voice they couldn't bring themselves to reveal that not one but two secret reports had cleared former Hawks officials Alastair Clackson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt of devastating claims of racism."

Agree this paragraph is damning, if true. Not sure it validates his conclusion. Last para is cut but I isn’t the whole article debating and criticising “wokism” (whatever that may be). Author suggesting you can’t do this?

Anyway please reply in the relevant Den thread.

 

[Elixuh]

Just re read it . You're talking about the 2 reports allegedly clearing him ? Either their existence or their contents , or the manner in which they were handled ?

He is likely referring to the Peter Gordon report and the other one prepared as part of the afl inquiry. Both reports may be favourable to Fagan. Both reports wouldn’t have necessarily ‘cleared’ Fagan, other than to say this AFL commissioned report says nothing to see here. And we don’t know how the reports were used or otherwise put to the parties. But saying the afl sat on reports which would have cleared Fagan supports his overall narrative of wokeness etc etc. It is opinion guised as fact.

 

[wantok]

Excellent article from Warner exposing the hypocrisy of the AFL. The Woke obsession starts at the top through Goyder,the beige CEO and his sidekick Kane.They need to focus on Football.

On moto g85 5G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[buttermuffs]

Excellent article from Warner exposing the hypocrisy of the AFL. The Woke obsession starts at the top through Goyder,the beige CEO and his sidekick Kane.They need to focus on Football.

On moto g85 5G using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[dlanod]

Well you could be right.

Now that it's all over I presume nothing in the settlement would preclude the AFL from releasing their findings. Unless of course they're prejudicial to the AFL . Or maybe reflect poorly on anyone else involved and they'll just let sleeping dogs lie.

There might be something in the settlement - it seems like the case was pretty tenuous, so both might have agreed to not comment publicly any further as part of it, one because they didn't want further examination and the other because they just wanted it to go away. But that's basically your last point as well.

 

[notliondown]

Facts?? Do we have evidence this article was based on facts?

I believe the AFL has 6 other secret reports that contradict the first 2 secret reports and in fact say that Fagan is solely responsible for the Ukraine war and should be jailed.

I'm all for an opinion piece - that's the world we live in - but that's all it is. Opinion. Let's be careful in assuming anyone knows anything at all about anything in a word vomit like that.

I wonder how people like Mick cope when it rains... the sky is blue, it has to be blue, the sky is only blue there is no way it's not blue.

Nuance and complexity - the world we live in - is lost on people who make no effort to try and see other peoples views.

Sure the AFL is hypocritical. Hugely. A lot of things it does leave a lot to be desired.

But to suggest that trying to do anything to lead a social discourse, or that daring to raising any sort of social issue with the power it has to influence the thinking of millions of people if off remit is willfully ignorant.

The Hawthorn saga highlights just how complex and diverse a puzzle the AFL has to piece together - just like society really surprise surprise. No one size fits all solution will ever work nor keep everyone happy.

Surely they have to get some credit for trying but? And for takings it's "learnings" and for trying to ensure it doesn't happen again?

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

That's nice. I didn't assess a fact-free piece.

If we're still taking about that HS article, all I see is a lot of straight-out opinion, and opinion dressed as fact. Fair enough if you agree with everything there and they way it's expressed, but there's nothing there that can lay claim to accuracy -- it's just a view that's been filtered through a very narrow lens, as most HS opinion pieces are.

 

[buttermuffs]

Very gutsy of Mick to write that. It's his perspective which is arguable I suppose.

They'll go after him and taint him forever now.

He will keep every single one of his jobs and face no consequences what on earth are you talking about?

 

[Elixuh]

It’s the Horn of Gondor of dog whistles, except he used an actual normal human whistle.

 

[McIvor]

Dlanod if they had 2 reports clearing Fagan and CO. it's downright disgusting that they just sat on it .

Yep which was my point ignoring the rest of the article yet a few are more interested in the other aspects of the piece.

They ignore that the AFL are whores to the betting industry, but that’s fine despite wanting clubs to get out of pokies venues and hypocrites when it comes to a myriad of other things all the while jamming so many positions down our throats that many are sick of, which agreed does have the opposite effect.

Anyway, good to see so many uninterested in the AFL covering up Fages being cleared and the pressure on him and others when it could have removed so much stress from Fages life but sure, Warner is the devil and the AFL never does any wrong. What a take.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Citation required

 

[martinson]

He will keep every single one of his jobs and face no consequences what on earth are you talking about?

I was more thinking SM actually on whatever I've seen of it.

So you think he should face consequences ?