Autopsy Hawthorn defeats Geelong by 4 points @ University of Tas Stadium, Friday 17th Feb 2017 (7.40pm)

[Stan The Caddy]

Seems I'm the only one who liked them. I wouldn't advocate wearing them during the H&A season though.

Sent from my HTC_0PJA10 using Tapatalk

I liked them too. People are just too stuck in their ways IMO.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

surely it ain't so catempire

It's not. Taylor isn't slow. He's actually quite quick for a big guy...

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I didn't see anything to suggest our forward line structure had improved... Looks like bomb and hope is still the order of the day - where is the structure?

 

[David the Cat]

Awful decision to play Bews up the ground. Completely burning his career. There are spots up for grabs in the backline now and they don't give him the opportunity to play there

I'm not sold on him making it but a better option than Ruggles at least.

Have to say that I disagree...we have multiple options up back....we need hard nut, good defensive forwards with some pace who will attack the footy hard and are capable of kicking goals.

Its pre-season ....why not try a few things.....if Menz and MaCarthy break down we may well have to call on depth to fill the void...

I think its fair enough to give him a run up forward...a practice match or two doesn't "burn a career" and he just might thrive in the role...I thought he was ok in Tasmania..

 

[catempire]

I didn't see anything to suggest our forward line structure had improved... Looks like bomb and hope is still the order of the day - where is the structure?

I haven't seen the game yet but I'd hazzard a guess their approach to improving the efficiency of our forward entries will go like this (in this order):

1. Improve the "quality" of our clearances, an area we are strong in just looking at raw numbers but way behind our rivals in creating clean ball movement away from the stoppage. Improving this will speed up ball movement going inside 50 and give our forwards the chance to lead (as opposed to sitting under high bombs all day).

2. Improve the speed of transition from D50 to F50. Our rivals are more willing to switch the ball, hit up a more risky target on the 45 degree kick or to give the ball to a run and carry player (we didn't have any in 2016, now we have Tuohy). We preferred to ensure we maintained possession through slower deliberate movement in 2016 and our forward work suffered as a result.

3. Some slight tweaks to forward personnel after some preseason experimentation. We don't have any Eddie Betts types so don't expect a massive overhaul. It will be finding the right chemistry and playing to our strengths (i.e. Hawkins centric).

As I said, no idea what happened on Friday but I'm not expecting huge changes overnight as a lot of this is going to take well into the season proper to work through.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

You know what's also great. In a meaningless pre season game where both sides did as they pleased at times, blooded kids and experimented. Geelong hawthorn end up having a secret classic decided by a kick on the siren, could have been match of the round during the season proper. What a rivalry

Nah......that ending felt more like a staged Ted Whitten Legends game thriller

 

[Scottland2007]

Hey, can anyone answer if GHS played? I'm kinda hoping he steps in for Bartel this year. Why else would he get a three year contract and just play VFL?

 

[David the Cat]

Hey, can anyone answer if GHS played? I'm kinda hoping he steps in for Bartel this year. Why else would he get a three year contract and just play VFL?

No, he didn't go to Tasmania....maybe next week?

 

[Scottland2007]

I can't believe clubs put up with this. The millions of $'s and effort that goes into a season and then to be adjudicated so unprofessionally and with bias that often comes from the AFL itself is crazy.
Is astounding everyone puts up with it.
Biggest problem and blight on the game.

Extremely well put.

 

[Scottland2007]

No, he didn't go to Tasmania....maybe next week?

Thanks DtC. I didn't think I saw him.

 

[Scottland2007]

Have to say that I disagree...we have multiple options up back....we need hard nut, good defensive forwards with some pace who will attack the footy hard and are capable of kicking goals.

Its pre-season ....why not try a few things.....if Menz and MaCarthy break down we may well have to call on depth to fill the void...

I think its fair enough to give him a run up forward...a practice match or two doesn't "burn a career" and he just might thrive in the role...I thought he was ok in Tasmania..

Bews was running from defense and kicked two posters from outside fifty in the last game of last year. I reckon he's got a good kick on him. Would like to see the club persevere with him up forward, at least for the JLT.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Bews was running from defense and kicked two posters from outside fifty in the last game of last year. I reckon he's got a good kick on him. Would like to see the club persevere with him up forward, at least for the JLT.

Yeah might as well. Menzel and McCarthy will always miss games during the year and now Gregson has a foot problem.
No harm in trying to find a backup option.

 

[dazbroncos]

Yeah might as well. Menzel and McCarthy will always miss games during the year and now Gregson has a foot problem.
No harm in trying to find a backup option.

I like his kamikaze speed and tackling pressure up there. The complaint, and reasonably so, has been the rebound from our F 50 has been too easy.
With Cocky and Bews both up there, based on JLT 1 anyway, they both laid great intent hard tackles in our F50, keeping it locked in.

With the I 50 count of ours so high, the next step is keeping it there. This helps.

GO Catters

 

[bulletproof]

I don't necessarily think Bews is the right player for the role, but I like the intent of greater defensive pressure in the forward half that him playing there showed.

McCarthy needs to really up his intent in this area, he needs to be laying a lot more tackles in forward half. Swans and Bulldogs were better than us in this regard last year.

I think Clay Smith laid ten tackles in the Grand Final.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

One good sign is I don't think Danger got out of first gear tonight.

Also feel there is a lot more room for improvement between now and round 1 than what the Hawks have.

Both teams have plenty of room for improvement, Gunston, Bruest, Hodge and Tom Mitchell would be 4 of our top 10 players.

 

[00VicWard001]

What were your expectations for the game Blighty?

Not make it to the grandfinal. Scott gets fired.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Not make it to the grandfinal. Scott gets fired.

Nah..... we could threepeat and that wouldn't make an ounce of difference. He's just the kind of guy who would complain that a hot woman sat on his face....

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Nah..... we could threepeat and that wouldn't make an ounce of difference. He's just the kind of guy who would complain that a hot woman sat on his face....

I'm prepared to see that eventuality to test your theory.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nah..... we could threepeat and that wouldn't make an ounce of difference. He's just the kind of guy who would complain that a hot woman sat on his face....

They do say, before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes. My body is ready, let's do this

 

[Jon Douglas]

Pretty disappointed in the game really. I know there are some reasons for this as both sides were not near full strength and first time gamers were out there - BUT no flow in our game - the backline looked poorly organised at times without Harry down back. We had better hope that we start to improve quickly !

I suppose a few bright spots here and there. Black ok, Tuohy looks really good with such run and a beautiful kick. I thought Lang did a bit more than he usually does, Smith was ok when up against their second ruckman, Danger was Danger, and I liked what I saw in a raw rookie in Guthrie. Could be a player in a year or two I think. Cocky looked a bit sharper.

But where Geelong has lost its edge in that we have replaced A graders with so far with B graders, or lower, performers (remembering B grade = very good player). Partially as many are young and cannot be expected to become A graders this early in their career - and some just did not work out (Caddy, Vardy, Smedts, etc) and injuries have had an impact. So we rely on Selwood and Danger far too much too often.

We need just another 2-3 A graders and we would be a lot better IMO. Those who are not A graders but could be include Motlop, Duncan and Menzel. Scooter could go close if you judge him by his role not his stats. Maybe an outside chance that Menegola may really rise. Tuohy I think could well already be an A grader. We need the class that we used to have, as well as the bigger bodies.

So yes I watch the young guys to see who maybe on the cusp of selection and who shows signs that they might be a player - but as for this year the we need the guys we know who can play better than they did in 2016, and then for them to take another step up - if we are to do well this year. Must share the load more.

 

[Frappe]

Watching the replay yesterday, a couple of things that really stood out
When we ran the ball out of defence, I think the opposition were happy to see the ball in the hands of the likes of Lonergan, Ruggles and perhaps Cowan. They tend to take a mark and then stop and consider their options a little slower than others and they are not pinpoint passes either so will wait for an unattended player before releasing. This gives the opposition more time to push players back and in turn can impact the way we kick into our forward line.

We are not good at hitting targets on the full with short kicks. It puts players under pressure unnecessarily. One time Lonergan had heaps of space and kicked to Cowan on the wing, just missed him and this gave the Hawks player time to come over and force a turnover (was also due to Cowan's poor skills picking the ball up).

We need to consider our options in terms of who we give the ball to coming out of defence - this impacts the fashion we bring it down the ground.

 

[zb14]

We look a much better defense with speedsters down there and he and Tuohy are exactly what the team has needed for a long time.

So you now think we've been crying out a long time for honest players who'll quickly be replaced?...

Tuohey is a good honest player but that is all. We tried to snag Deledio but it didn't work out so we took what was left on the table and it's the Irishman. He will fill in the cracks left by Enright and a ever regressing Mackie but I can see him being replaced pretty quickly in the not too distant future

...Or more Carlton b graders. Please think of the future!.. The club must remain strong!!..

Really feels like the coach is doing more to secure another contract extension rather than ensuring the organization he works for is being well looked after. We are obtaining all these mature aged recruits while shipping out 22-24 year old's. We were that close to swapping Motlop for a 29 year old and eventually settled on B grader from Carlton. Sure, mature aged recruits make very few mistakes compared to younger players but long term-wise, the club remains strong

 

[Jon Douglas]

Watching the replay yesterday, a couple of things that really stood out
When we ran the ball out of defence, I think the opposition were happy to see the ball in the hands of the likes of Lonergan, Ruggles and perhaps Cowan. They tend to take a mark and then stop and consider their options a little slower than others and they are not pinpoint passes either so will wait for an unattended player before releasing. This gives the opposition more time to push players back and in turn can impact the way we kick into our forward line.

We are not good at hitting targets on the full with short kicks. It puts players under pressure unnecessarily. One time Lonergan had heaps of space and kicked to Cowan on the wing, just missed him and this gave the Hawks player time to come over and force a turnover (was also due to Cowan's poor skills picking the ball up).

We need to consider our options in terms of who we give the ball to coming out of defence - this impacts the fashion we bring it down the ground.

You cannot underestimate good kicking skills - which Hawthorn were far better than us IMO. Tuohy is an excellent kick so that helps - but really we need to make sure when we draft players we consider highly their kicking skills. Too many inside 50s without many goals is killing us in games. Our kicks into the F 50 are not that good (too many times we kicked on Taylor or Hawkins heads) and then when we have shots we miss a few that we should not.

It is my guess we will line up in the forward line as follows -

HFF Motlop Taylor Menzel

FF McCarthy Hawkins Lang.

Now that should be a very good forward line - on paper anyway. A fair reliance on natural improvement from Menzel, McCarthy and Lang - and the hope that Motlop will repay the time and money invested in him. That Hawkins will have a decent year ad Harry will prove to be our best option at CHF and he works well with Hawk and the small forwards.

So it looks on paper but we really have little idea how it will all work out. And for us to win big games we have to kick more goals from our entries into the forward line. McCarthy could be a very good small forward but will need time - like another 1-2 seasons, Lang is improving no doubt and could be a lively small forward - nice kick, tackles quite well and has some decent leg speed to get the contest. But is again a season or two away from going to a level that consistently hurts oppositions, if indeed he makes it. Menzel I am more confident about but again I think he will be back to best come 2018.

Motlop - who knows ? - can be great, can be ordinary. We will just have to wait and see. I think his attitude of late has a hint of playing for frees rather than just going 100 % at the ball or opposition player with it. Maybe avoids a bit of hard contact at times - and wants the easy ball too much ? Maybe. Its a very hard game but all that means is you better be pretty hard if you want to make it at league level IMO. However, given the relatively inexperienced forward line that I propose, we probably need Motlop to play upwards of 80 % of his potential most games for the forward line to be dangerous.

Maybe Black will end up at CHF as we have few options, if it turns out we need Harry down back. he is a bit small for the role but could provide a lead up forward role and make enough contests - as he does have some decent leg speed for his size. But not a pack marking player. We will have to wait and see what GFC ends up doing later in the season I suspect.

Cannot be too tall however unless the player is a mobile tall player. Harry and Hawk are pretty slow over the ground so are unlikely to be providing too much pressure when the ball is on the ground and clear. Stanley would need be CHF if we were to play Black as the third tall forward. But obviously GFC do not see Stanley as permanent forward.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I thought that Stewart looked like a bunch of nerves throughout the whole game and made plenty of mistakes. The good news is that it was just one game and I'm sure that he'll be better for the experience.

Hopefully he's selected again for JLT 2 so that he can eliminate alot of those mistakes and put in a better performance.

 

[hbk_aus]

Watching the replay yesterday, a couple of things that really stood out
When we ran the ball out of defence, I think the opposition were happy to see the ball in the hands of the likes of Lonergan, Ruggles and perhaps Cowan. They tend to take a mark and then stop and consider their options a little slower than others and they are not pinpoint passes either so will wait for an unattended player before releasing. This gives the opposition more time to push players back and in turn can impact the way we kick into our forward line.

We are not good at hitting targets on the full with short kicks. It puts players under pressure unnecessarily. One time Lonergan had heaps of space and kicked to Cowan on the wing, just missed him and this gave the Hawks player time to come over and force a turnover (was also due to Cowan's poor skills picking the ball up).

We need to consider our options in terms of who we give the ball to coming out of defence - this impacts the fashion we bring it down the ground.

Agree with the lack of skill coming out of defence. Tuohy and eventually (hopefully) Thurlow will help but it is the main reason why I am reluctant to throw Mackie to the kerb just yet. He has skill coming out of defence which we lack. We actually lack elite skill all around the ground to be honest, compared to the best sides. Hence the bombing into the forward line.