How much longer can Bolton survive?

[Fadge]

I'm convinced they need to get Roos in for 3 years.

Out Judd, in Roos?

 

[jackenny]

Who suggested Hird as coach? I certainly wouldn’t.

You’re the one suggesting Knights. Absolutely laughable. He was totally incompetent strategically. Probably why he makes a decent assistant, where he’s just implementing what he’s told to.

Must be something in the Knights name.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

All over the last two pages.

Richmond aren’t this all-conquering team and their list is good but no better than most currently decent teams in the competition.

What set them apart in the finals series in 2017 and the 2018 H&A was their gamestyle, and since the prelim multiple teams have exposed them badly.

We lost the best defender in the league in our first game. He was our backline general and organizer. It took time to get used to not having him organize the backs. We struck Collingwood in our first game without him. We played well against the Giants until our other leader Cotchin went off with a hammy and we then went two men down and they pulled away. Hardly a debacle. Then we played our worst game of the year against a good side fighting for their season. For a side that has played without several of their best players - all AA players too - and still be only one win behind Collingwood who everyone is recognizing is having a wonderful season, is hardly what you call being exposed badly.

 

[Blue1980]

Coaches don’t get sacked these days. Bomber didn’t get sacked and went on to win 2 cups, Hardwick 1 and Buckley made a GF. They should be aiming for 6-8 wins in my opinion. Internal growth, add No.1 pick, McGovern, Newman, setterfield means must better their 2 win season of last year. If they beat GC and hawks they would be on their way, but those losses hurt. Reality is 1-8. Should be aiming to win 2 of next 4.

Problem is I don’t think Bolts and co are coaching to win as their first priority, it’s all about teaching. We are getting destroyed yesterday, being monstered at the clearances with Cripps surrounded by 18-20 year old skinny kids and we do literally nothing.

We have JSOS, Ed Curnow and Charlie Curnow who could have gone on ball to try and crash in a bit, but nothing.

Now who knows, maybe our board have accepted this and think there will be a payoff fast tracking the kids. I personally think it’s stupid to be rigid and never change it, for the sake of ‘education’.

We said we would get Cripps help and have proceeded to give him less.

If we keep up our current strategy of Cripps surrounded by kids they hope to become stars but aren’t close to ready, I can’t see us winning another game.

 

[Blue1980]

With free agency I dare say completely bottoming out is stupid. Not to mention the draft is still a complete gamble

Thing is a lot of what people think are players claimed as free agents have just been traded. It’s just that trades happen more now as a by product of free agency, as clubs would rather get something than just a compo pick.

Problem is we were already last when bolts and sos got to the club, with barely any young talent outside of Cripps and Doch.

So we were last with little to look forward to on the list. We have a black hole where we should have a core of 23-30 year olds.

 

[La Dispute]

It’s a reasonable point. In hindsight we should have kept at least one of Gibbs and Tuohy, and we completely misread the impact of their departures. The net gain has been fairly minimal overall.

This has protracted the rebuild, which means we will be fine in a couple of seasons, but Bolton needs to start winning games or he won’t be around to see the end result of hoarding these first round picks.

 

[Chunky09]

I rate Stack, but Walsh has been better so far this year and has easily justified being taken first.

Similar set of circumstances: opportunistic wins during periods of general recession.

Nobody looks back at the Swans 2005 win or the Bulldogs 2016 win as examples of high caliber list management, but being in the right place at the right time with a game plan that held up when it needed to.



These are the two biggest Bigfooty cliches of all time. Congrats on ticking both in the same paragraph.

probably because they’re accurate. I don’t believe we’re anywhere near the best side in the comp, but we won a flag and finished on top of the regular season last year when everyone wrote us off, and this season they are hanging in there with a third of our best 22 out. I couldn’t care less what other supporters think of my teams style of play, it got us a flag after waiting an eternity to see one.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

Who cares? It's an Etihad minnow team, stationed in the AFL homeless shelter for teams that don't have a home ground. It doesn't even matter.

 

[Astro_]

If they don't act tonight the club isn't serious. Gone.

Carlton needs a Hardwick-type coach desperately, a coach the players will die in a ditch for, then you can start money-balling up from there. I remember 2009 for the Tiges, it a bloody long journey back but they need to start it tonight, why wait?

Thank Brendan for his contribution.

How long did it take Richmond to get serious results though under Hardwick? Bolton has only been there a short time

 

[Blue1980]

It’s a reasonable point. In hindsight we should have kept at least one of Gibbs and Tuohy, and we completely misread the impact of their departures. The net gain has been fairly minimal overall.

This has protracted the rebuild, which means we will be fine in a couple of seasons, but Bolton needs to start winning games or he won’t be around to see the end result of hoarding these first round picks.

What we have got back isn’t nearly as good as those guys were.

For Tuohy we got Marchbank and Pickett for and I’d much rather have Tuohy. Marchbank looks ok, but if I was to guess he won’t have as good a career as Tuohy and provide less leadership. Looks injury prone to boot.

For Gibbs we got LOB, Kennedy and TDK, I’d rather have Gibbs. LOB and Kennedy look busts and TDK is a very long term project which we won’t know will yield anything for a while.

Mind you Tuohy going was made much worse with no Doch for 2 years.

We also have a stupidly unbalanced list in terms of too many talls, zero small forwards and hardly any outside runners.

There is a fair bit of young talent, but I think we are miles off it still. Overall I think the bolts/sos regime is an unmitigated disaster. 4 wins from 41 with every chance it will be 4 from 54 at seasons end.

 

[Blue1980]

How long did it take Richmond to get serious results though under Hardwick? Bolton has only been there a short time

They weren’t worse in 2013 than they were in 2010 though.

It’s different, as Hardwick had Martin, Riewoldt, rance and cotchin on the list when he got there. Thing is Richmond didn’t see late picks and rookie selections as free hits for injury prone players for former high draft picks, so actually got good players outside the top 25 of the draft

 

[incaciawin]

What we have got back isn’t nearly as good as those guys were.

For Tuohy we got Marchbank and Pickett for and I’d much rather have Tuohy. Marchbank looks ok, but if I was to guess he won’t have as good a career as Tuohy and provide less leadership. Looks injury prone to boot.

For Gibbs we got LOB, Kennedy and TDK, I’d rather have Gibbs. LOB and Kennedy look busts and TDK is a very long term project which we won’t know will yield anything for a while.

Mind you Tuohy going was made much worse with no Doch for 2 years.

We also have a stupidly unbalanced list in terms of too many talls, zero small forwards and hardly any outside runners.

There is a fair bit of young talent, but I think we are miles off it still. Overall I think the bolts/sos regime is an unmitigated disaster. 4 wins from 41 with every chance it will be 4 from 54 at seasons end.

With 'supporters' like you who needs trolls.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

How long did it take Richmond to get serious results though under Hardwick? Bolton has only been there a short time

yeah it's bloody slow, as I said maybe only Dees and Tiges fans quite understand what it's like to have so many holes in a list. You have to start plugging them one-by-one, every year you can improve by two wins is one less good player losing hope and asking to leave, is one more decent player you can sell the dream to and bring to your club, then it compounds..but slowly!

Hardwick did gentle improvements in wins from 2010 to 2015 before he finally took a step backwards in 2016. I don't think Bolts has gone forward in this sense.

My real point though is about paternalistic coaching. Did you see Hardwick's comments on Brandon Ellis on the weekend?

'I know when I’m at my worst, unfortunately, Brandon’s one of those guys, he’s really close to me, that cops it the most'

He talks about his players like they are in a romantic relationship or something! I'm not saying it's a coaching style for all seasons, but it's a good style for when a club is bogged down. Find a bloke like that.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Agree, we got top 10 picks who fail basic skill execution or lose track of their man.

Only going to admit this once, 'cos I'll regret it - I actually feel sorry for rusted-on Carlton supporters. Not the club, just the loyal supporters who are hurting. I know a few of them.

The game is in such a poor state across the board, I couldn't guarantee I'd stick on in their position.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Problem is I don’t think Bolts and co are coaching to win as their first priority, it’s all about teaching. We are getting destroyed yesterday, being monstered at the clearances with Cripps surrounded by 18-20 year old skinny kids and we do literally nothing.

We have JSOS, Ed Curnow and Charlie Curnow who could have gone on ball to try and crash in a bit, but nothing.

Now who knows, maybe our board have accepted this and think there will be a payoff fast tracking the kids. I personally think it’s stupid to be rigid and never change it, for the sake of ‘education’.

We said we would get Cripps help and have proceeded to give him less.

If we keep up our current strategy of Cripps surrounded by kids they hope to become stars but aren’t close to ready, I can’t see us winning another game.

But what are they being taught? What are the yardsticks? Are there any positive metrics from last week's game? What should Carlton supporters be looking for, apart from an honourable loss?

Every coach has to make do with what he's got, not what he lacks.

 

[Ron The Bear]

How long did it take Richmond to get serious results though under Hardwick? Bolton has only been there a short time

Coach . . M .W .L D Win% .For . Ag . % .AvAge .Diff
---------------------------------------------------
Hardwick 75 29 44 2 40.0 6820 7499 90.9 23.61 -1.02
Bolton . 75 16 59 0 21.3 5731 7554 75.9 24.82 -0.21

Improvement under Hardwick came significantly faster, with younger teams. And it was steady: 6 wins => 8.5 wins => 10.5 wins => 15 wins.

It’s different, as Hardwick had Martin, Riewoldt, rance and cotchin on the list when he got there.

Yes, Martin (18) Cotchin (19), Rance (20), Riewoldt (21).

Bolton began with Weitering (18), Curnow (19), Cripps (21). Should've been able to add a Cotchin equivalent after three low finishes. Maybe it's Walsh.

 

[Auger Martel]

Take it to the Richmond board.

You give a utterly baseless lecture on how Richmond's model is not impressive, while Carlton is and has been a bottom feeder for years and when someone rightfully calls you out on it, you tell them to take it to the Richmond board?

Newsflash: That model has won them a premiership while Carlton lurches from one smashing to another and a brilliant model which looks like will see them lose a top 3 pick.

You should take yourself to the Carlton board to avoid embarrassing yourself any further.

Make sure your own backyard is clean before throwing feeble stones.

 

[kozi]

2016: 7 wins
2017: 6 wins
2018: 2 wins
2019: 1 win

2020: 0 wins
2021: -1 win

 

[saints_333]

2016: 7 wins
2017: 6 wins
2018: 2 wins
2019: 1 win

2020: 0 wins
2021: -1 win

That there is probably the main worry about Bolton. They are going backwards in wins, not forward. How in the world can you argue against that when you were supposed to be already in a rebuild???

The problem is, they have one week where they play well, say there getting better, the next week play absolute trash, then the next week put the pressure back on and pretend that nothing happened and it just goes round and round in circles. I just don't know how long you can keep coming up with the same old argument of yeah we might be losing but we are playing better. 3 wins in 31 games compared to 6 the year before. How in the world is that getting better?

 

[The Casey Cat]

With 'supporters' like you who needs trolls.

He's right. No reason he can't be critical. He has just presented the facts which are not good for Bolton and anyone responsible for list management. Should not still be this bad. The mix of players isn't right and there's no reason for them to still look and play so 'young'.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Every coach has to make do with what he's got, not what he lacks.

And Bolton has been there long enough now to be responsible for what he's got and how they're progressing. His list now. He and Silvagni have not got it right.

 

[Blackhawk42]

why be so rude?

Hardwick is best in the league atm, imo, of getting a lot out of limited players and a list with serious holes in it.

Melbourne and Richmond fans would be best placed to comment on what it's like to be in Carlton's situation- bumping along rock bottom for years- it's bloody hard to get out of that situation and it takes a coach with unique skill set to pull out of the endless death spiral.

You need a horse whisperer- Bevo is the other one that's a bit like that and can take a limited list all the way.

Same with Clarko. We really didn't have a top 4 list last season.

 

[10571z]

GC were an absolute rabble and in a very short period of time with a worse list are playing better footy than Carlton. There really isn't an excuse for that. Bolton got a good rap because he took over a raging Hawks for a few games and didn't lose. Dude needs to go. Why on earth did they gave up their top pick? Heads need to roll.

Correct. To many excuses at Carlton.

Nothing could have gone worse at
Gold Coast. If anything picking up players is even tougher but they are still playing hard competitive football

 

[10571z]

Gee whiz I love Carlton fans comparing this Hardwick and staying the course.

Hardwick was winning games and still
Making finals. Bolton has done just nothing.

 

[iGNITER]