kaiserchief13
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
How much longer can Bolton survive?
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If you need anymore evidence that putting your faith in youth/draft is the answer then look at sample A the Carlton Football club.
It astounds me that clubs think having numerous early draft picks will make them a good side.
Carlton simply have Not recruited enough ready to play footballers and instead have recruited young kids they don’t even know can play yet. You can educate them until the cows come home but bottom line is half of them are not very good footballers.
You must trade and draft, your young drafted players will always struggle to develop in scrap side, you must be a reasonable outfit for your kids to develop.
I really feel for Carlton fans as their club is not trying to get better, drafting kid after kid is the wrong way, Gold Coast did it and it didn’t work, GWS did it and until they traded in some good footballers they struggled also. Carlton are still doing it and getting nowhere.
Carlton need to trade out their picks in the draft going forward and bring in some ready made talent, they have enough kids on their list with “potential”.
It astounds me that clubs think having numerous early draft picks will make them a good side.
Carlton simply have Not recruited enough ready to play footballers and instead have recruited young kids they don’t even know can play yet. You can educate them until the cows come home but bottom line is half of them are not very good footballers.
You must trade and draft, your young drafted players will always struggle to develop in scrap side, you must be a reasonable outfit for your kids to develop.
I really feel for Carlton fans as their club is not trying to get better, drafting kid after kid is the wrong way, Gold Coast did it and it didn’t work, GWS did it and until they traded in some good footballers they struggled also. Carlton are still doing it and getting nowhere.
Carlton need to trade out their picks in the draft going forward and bring in some ready made talent, they have enough kids on their list with “potential”.
Preferable to bring kids into a stable side, sure. But Carlton didn't have that, they had a team of under-performing list-cloggers. Then they brought in more list-cloggers.
I don't think they went anywhere near hard enough on youth, especially early. It would probably have ended in disaster anyway because it's apparent they don't have the right coach. They were in a dire position when Bolton started and admitted as much, but I reckon they've taken "short cuts" which have had the opposite effect. St.Kilda has trod a similar path without success.
They should continue to chase capable free agents, sure. But I think it would be a big mistake to trade out any decent draft picks. They need to accept that success is still a fair way off, replace the broken pieces of the football department and continue along the path. Improvement should be quickly noticeable.
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Compare Dew to Bolton.
Most would have taken Carlton’s list. Most would have bet Carlton would be far better.
It’s the complete opposite. Suns won 3 and within a goal in a couple of others. A good coach would have them performing better no doubt
Most would have taken Carlton’s list. Most would have bet Carlton would be far better.
It’s the complete opposite. Suns won 3 and within a goal in a couple of others. A good coach would have them performing better no doubt
I have no qualms in saying Carltons list is a lot more talented than the Suns currently.
Dew is one of the big reasons we are performing so well. He has set us up to play defensive contested football. Are we great to watch. God no, but I would rather we are close and be in with a chance of winning than try and play expansive footy and be pummelled because our guys just aren't good enough at the moment.
That's not a very convincing argument when you look at the ladder and see that GC is only 2 spots higher and have lost their last 5 matches. They really are very comparable. Heck, even my team is comparable...
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Personally, I like to see young and developing teams really improve at the back end of the year.
Under Bolton, Carlton have started poorly, and finished even worse.
The only decent year they had was his first (6-5 after 11 rounds). In fact, after 16 games coached, Bolton had a very impressive 11 wins 5 losses (including 5 wins at Hawthorn). In his next 64 games, he's coached 10 wins. Almost 3 full seasons, for 10 wins.
But surely this year will get better, especially after those honourable losses?
Don't count on it. Bolton has coached 33 matches after the bye, for just 5 wins. 2 of them against Gold Coast. The 28 losses come at an average margin of 39 points.
I'm not just saying Carlton are bad, we all know that, we can all see that. What I'm saying is, they've never been worse.
Under Bolton, Carlton have started poorly, and finished even worse.
The only decent year they had was his first (6-5 after 11 rounds). In fact, after 16 games coached, Bolton had a very impressive 11 wins 5 losses (including 5 wins at Hawthorn). In his next 64 games, he's coached 10 wins. Almost 3 full seasons, for 10 wins.
But surely this year will get better, especially after those honourable losses?
Don't count on it. Bolton has coached 33 matches after the bye, for just 5 wins. 2 of them against Gold Coast. The 28 losses come at an average margin of 39 points.
I'm not just saying Carlton are bad, we all know that, we can all see that. What I'm saying is, they've never been worse.
Depends - once the players stop trying you are a dead man walking as a coach. The next 4 weeks will tell us everything we need to know. He will coach out the year though.
I'll always remember thinking the decision to sack Brendan McCartney was a piss weak decision as the Dogs had just finished 14th and showed some decent improvement with a very young list. They hired a bit of a no-name in Beveridge and the improvement was almost beyond belief instantly.
People are voicing the Buckey/Hardwick argument but realistically Bolts is probably more of a McCartney. Has done a terrific job bringing a good list together, creating a good environment (players are re-signing), and pumping games into the kids (maybe even too many), however it's probably time for a change. Just hope we don't go down the Paul Roos messiah path - prob will though.
I'll always remember thinking the decision to sack Brendan McCartney was a piss weak decision as the Dogs had just finished 14th and showed some decent improvement with a very young list. They hired a bit of a no-name in Beveridge and the improvement was almost beyond belief instantly.
People are voicing the Buckey/Hardwick argument but realistically Bolts is probably more of a McCartney. Has done a terrific job bringing a good list together, creating a good environment (players are re-signing), and pumping games into the kids (maybe even too many), however it's probably time for a change. Just hope we don't go down the Paul Roos messiah path - prob will though.
Damian Barrett has come out and said Bolton will be sacked at the end of the year. Surely that means Carlton will re-sign him on a long term contract now.
Another loss like last week and I'd be surprised if Bolts made the end of the year..
Another loss like last week and I'd be surprised if Bolts made the end of the year..
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If they had not given away pick 1, he'd be there all year to add another pick 1 to their list...
If carton had the same results as the suns people would be raving about them.
They are under performing. Yes yes you are young. We know...
Ha, not sure a thread on bigfooty started by an opposition supporter counts. The same has been said of Carlton, except it was said by industry commentators with some numbers and analysis behind it.
Richmond has won 0 spoons in the time Hardwick has been there, 1 three years before he started. Not sure how it can be argued Richmond were as bad as Carlton at any stage over the last decade+
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Might have to halt the progress of attacking footy for a while and go back to the ‘parking of the bus’ style defensive footy.
Both... and I wouldn't say the problem lies with just these two.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why-there-is-hope-for-richmond-20100504-u691.html (one of the better articles on Richmond ever published)
Hardwick began with defeats by 56, 72, 55, 55, 39, 108 & 50 points - the worst record of any coach in history at that stage. Bookmakers paid out on Richmond for the spoon after Round 4!
The point is that the hardest part of the rebuild - for the fans - was at the beginning. Bolton is only now playing the kids, having prolonged the pain.
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gavaniacono
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Bolton should be safe for the rest of the year, at minimum. The media beats up a storm and the blues get out into the media as a result, its like a frenzy of wasps.
Carlton need to keep the eyes on the long term and IGNORE the noise.
Carlton need to keep the eyes on the long term and IGNORE the noise.
Davey33
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- Jun 21, 2017
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We need a Hardwick type coach???
Like the type of coach you had in 2016??
Seriously people have such short memories. How many years did it take Richmond until they tasted real success (with Hardwick) at the helm, and even then it's highly questionable whether it was Hardwick or more the players and alot of things going right.
As an aside both Hardwick and Bolton were assistants to Clarkson
Personally I think Brendan's been hard done by as a result of the changing trends and a radical change in culture/whatever.
He took over in 2016. In his first two seasons with a playing group that had quite limited talent and star power he had the Blues in good positions at both halfway marks of the season ( i think 6 wins in 2016 and 5 in 2017) only for them to go on and lose almost all of their last 10 games but remain highly competetive in the majority of them.
He instilled a highly defensive game plan but as most commentators observed at the time, defense is the groundwork for a solid gameplan and only once he had established a solid defensive unit could they then work on the offensive part of the game plan.
Fast forward to 2018. Outside pressure was building and once again the longstanding impatience of supporters started to win out and force football departments hands. Recruiting recycled players and ready made top ups were indicators of superficial interests (and it seems that the infamous carlton impatience and lack of commitment to a rebuild was back again- just this time disguised as a "need to be more offensive", " time for them to take the next step", "year 3 of the rebuild" etc. etc.
In short Bolton was pressured to do things and make adjustments to his gameplan which he wasn't ready for/ didn't have the players for.
No point in playing offensive just for the sake of "playing offensive" if the players aren't up to it or you simply dont have the players for it. And that's exactly what happened.
a coach once again gave into outside pressure (again unfortunately for the thousandth time in football history) and unfortunately has had telling results.
So they've worked hard to fix things with some artifical fix ups this year, recruits, aggressive drafting and twitches to the gameplan but it's hard to really see the improvement.
In short, when the coach will be allowed to coach at his own pace and the clubs, football departments (including SOS) don't give into the emotionally charged impatience of supporter bases then they will normally see much more success in the right time at a normal pace.
For Christ's sake, it was fool's gold!
Year | Rd | Opp | AvAge | Diff | Res | Mgn |
2016 | 5 | Fr | 24.72 | -1.06 | W | 4 |
2016 | 6 | Es | 25.45 | -0.48 | W | 15 |
2016 | 7 | Co | 26.15 | +2.24 | W | 15 |
2016 | 8 | PA | 26.18 | +1.68 | W | 2 |
2016 | 10 | Ge | 25.93 | -0.27 | W | 19 |
2016 | 11 | Br | 25.57 | +1.28 | W | 38 |
2016 | 22 | Me | 25.47 | +2.44 | W | 20 |
2017 | 3 | Es | 24.76 | -1.29 | W | 15 |
2017 | 6 | Sy | 24.57 | +0.22 | W | 19 |
2017 | 7 | Co | 25.30 | +0.51 | W | 23 |
2017 | 12 | GWS | 24.65 | -0.16 | W | 1 |
2017 | 13 | GC | 24.19 | -0.25 | W | 10 |
2017 | 22 | Ha | 24.45 | -1.33 | W | 7 |
The test of a side on the up is that they win games against older opposition. Bolton's at 18% from that group, and only 27% from the other.
Look at the ages of those winning teams and consider the last three weeks where it's been 23.72, 23.74, 23.76.
Carlton is actually doing the right thing now, but it's too late for Bolton. He's shown over an extended period that he's not a very good coach.
It's apparent that they're not going to sack him any time soon, but he has to keep playing this team and demonstrate some genuine improvement if he's to reach the end of the season..
Could only find one reference to Fitzroy in that article;
May well have been quoting the bigfooty thread, wouldn't be the first time a journo has mined this site for content. As I said, I distinctly remember articles backed up with numbers re: Carlton.
Bad run of defeats to be sure, but sample size too small - they've never been as bad for as long. You'll argue that's due to Bolton not playing the kids, I maintain we simply didn't have the kids to play - even never-gonna-be's like Clem Smith actually did play games, but re: the lists of kids we both posted I think it's fairly obvious Richmond's youth had more potential.
We won't agree I suppose, but I think shocking drafting remains the main factor for Carlton.
Davey33
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If Buckley survived at the end of 2017 it would be criminal to get rid of Bolton based on his past record. Just saying
Despite the fact that in his worst year, Buckley had more than 4 times as many wins as Bolton did last season?
In fact, in his worst year, he coached more wins in a season than Bolton ever has!
Davey33
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They weren't a side on the up in 2016/17, they were a side just working on building a solid defensive unit and gameplan ala Melbourne under Roos 2015/16
And 90% of people were calling for his head, Collingwood fans included.
Can Bolton do the same?
I can't see it.
At face value, the GWS offcuts haven't delivered. Silvagni knew a lot about those players, and maybe he put too much emphasis on their junior form when getting them to Carlton, or maybe the football department's development is deficient.
It's very unlikely that it's all Bolton's fault, but the coach historically carries the can.
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