How the coalition can win the next Victorian election

[The Punter]

That's true, just don't bring out the "majority of the population is outside Brisbane" argument to explain it when that has nothing to do with it. It won't even be true anymore within a few years anyway.

I mean, it's a numbers game to some extent. If they don't live in Brisbane, they gotta live somewhere. It's not like everyone is in two cities.

 

[The Punter]

Ballarat is Union heartland, Bendigo too, they've still got a bit of manufacturing, plus a history of unionism going back to the Goldrush. Allan is from Bendigo.

But the opposition would be more successful if they did attack (and defend) on multiple fronts. You wouldn't think the Nats have more seats than the Greens by the amount of press they get. Nats have more than twice as many seats, but we hear a lot more from the Greens in the press. The Nats get local press, but they need state-wide representation, and need to speak over the interstate federal leadership like Ley and Joyce who make them look stupid.

That's all well and good, but on the rare occasion the non-left gets to govern in Victoria, the Nats get Ministers. They actually get to do stuff. That might change if we get a minority government in Victoria post-2026, but I can't think of a single Nat who would rather the press the Greens Party gets at the expense of the opportunity to actually govern once in a while.

 

[Saint]

That's all well and good, but on the rare occasion the non-left gets to govern in Victoria, the Nats get Ministers. They actually get to do stuff. That might change if we get a minority government in Victoria post-2026, but I can't think of a single Nat who would rather the press the Greens Party gets at the expense of the opportunity to actually govern once in a while.

Unless the Libs go down the ALP-style D P&C mode of micromanaging every portfolio and the Ministers are in-name only.

The Libs will always have to form a coalition with the Nats, they just don't have to be so friendly and organised about it.

Country roads are going to deteriorate at a massive rate (faster than they already were) because of the city-focused infrastructure spend and the Nats are powerless to do anything about it, and Pessutto talking about the state of country roads isn't going to get the kind of traction that a Nats leader would.

 

[The Punter]

Unless the Libs go down the ALP-style D P&C mode of micromanaging every portfolio and the Ministers are in-name only.

The Libs will always have to form a coalition with the Nats, they just don't have to be so friendly and organised about it.

Country roads are going to deteriorate at a massive rate (faster than they already were) because of the city-focused infrastructure spend and the Nats are powerless to do anything about it, and Pessutto talking about the state of country roads isn't going to get the kind of traction that a Nats leader would.

The previous LNP government spent more money on country road maintenance and gave money directly to local councils specifically for their road portfolios. And the LNP have been speaking about country road maintenance for nearly ten years in opposition.

The two parties have been through some tough times - the state coalition is about as strong as it has ever been. If country people (including those in regional centres) don't want to drive on dangerous roads, they have been provided a clear choice on election day.

 

[Saint]

The previous LNP government spent more money on country road maintenance and gave money directly to local councils specifically for their road portfolios. And the LNP have been speaking about country road maintenance for nearly ten years in opposition.

The two parties have been through some tough times - the state coalition is about as strong as it has ever been. If country people (including those in regional centres) don't want to drive on dangerous roads, they have been provided a clear choice on election day.

Maybe the two parties would be in a better state if they weren't so strongly bound is the whole point.

They might have a strong coalition, but what's the good of a strong coalition if it contributes to remaining in opposition.

You don't hear a lot of professional sports teams saying "It doesn't matter if we're losing by heaps, as long as we're all having fun together". That's for the Juniors.

I'm only saying this because the ALP monopoly is simply bad for the state. They're doing all sorts of nonsense and there's no effective opposition. I don't mean opposition party singular, I mean there should be attacks on multiple fronts at the moment.

Instead we have a wet lettuce LNP, non-existent Nats and Greens angling to get a few crumbs in return for passing legislation in the upper house.

I still think they've been better than an LNP Govt would have been, but I'm a big promoter for minority Governments, it's what we should be aiming for

 

[The Punter]

Maybe the two parties would be in a better state if they weren't so strongly bound is the whole point.

They might have a strong coalition, but what's the good of a strong coalition if it contributes to remaining in opposition.

You don't hear a lot of professional sports teams saying "It doesn't matter if we're losing by heaps, as long as we're all having fun together". That's for the Juniors.

I'm only saying this because the ALP monopoly is simply bad for the state. They're doing all sorts of nonsense and there's no effective opposition. I don't mean opposition party singular, I mean there should be attacks on multiple fronts at the moment.

Instead we have a wet lettuce LNP, non-existent Nats and Greens angling to get a few crumbs in return for passing legislation in the upper house.

I still think they've been better than an LNP Govt would have been, but I'm a big promoter for minority Governments, it's what we should be aiming for

I think in the limited experience we've had with LNP governments with slender majorities, what happens is the right flank of the party holds the rest to ransom. So I don't want that. I think something very similar would happen if the ALP had to rely on the Greens Party for supply and confidence.

I think there are times when the Nats should have found a fuller, more independent voice, as I also think there have been times when Victorian Liberals should have done the same compared to their national counterparts. But I think the cooperation and teamwork is more beneficial than detrimental. I don't think it is contributing to remaining in opposition, at least no where near as much as the right flank of the LNP showing no regard to softening their edges to appeal to mainstream voters in order to win government.

There aren't too many more opportunities for the Nats - they won every seat they made the 2PP count in at the last state election IIRC. And the Libs have shown over and over again an unwillingness to not run in seats or run dead that other major parties just seem to be able to avoid. I think our side of politics have bigger issues (and more straightforward ones to fix) before worrying about maximising return on investment on the Coalition agreement.

 

[Not Important]

I think in the limited experience we've had with LNP governments with slender majorities, what happens is the right flank of the party holds the rest to ransom. So I don't want that. I think something very similar would happen if the ALP had to rely on the Greens Party for supply and confidence.

I think there are times when the Nats should have found a fuller, more independent voice, as I also think there have been times when Victorian Liberals should have done the same compared to their national counterparts. But I think the cooperation and teamwork is more beneficial than detrimental. I don't think it is contributing to remaining in opposition, at least no where near as much as the right flank of the LNP showing no regard to softening their edges to appeal to mainstream voters in order to win government.

There aren't too many more opportunities for the Nats - they won every seat they made the 2PP count in at the last state election IIRC. And the Libs have shown over and over again an unwillingness to not run in seats or run dead that other major parties just seem to be able to avoid. I think our side of politics have bigger issues (and more straightforward ones to fix) before worrying about maximising return on investment on the Coalition agreement.

isn’t that what’s occurring now? or, at least, what the extremists are attempting. to my eyes, pesutto is far and away the most measured and electable leader you’ve had in yonks. and that is reflected in polling. yet the rightist swill seem intent on bringing him undone.

 

[Todman]

IIRC in 2009 the Brumby government changed the Frankston train timetable so they stopped at all stations, (eliminating express Malvern to South Yarra). The six seats that abut the train line all fell to the Liberals.

The Libs didn't change the train schedules so in 2014 they lost all six seats.

In short little things can change the electorate.

6 seats up for grabs

 

[Saint]

I think in the limited experience we've had with LNP governments with slender majorities, what happens is the right flank of the party holds the rest to ransom. So I don't want that. I think something very similar would happen if the ALP had to rely on the Greens Party for supply and confidence.

I think there are times when the Nats should have found a fuller, more independent voice, as I also think there have been times when Victorian Liberals should have done the same compared to their national counterparts. But I think the cooperation and teamwork is more beneficial than detrimental. I don't think it is contributing to remaining in opposition, at least no where near as much as the right flank of the LNP showing no regard to softening their edges to appeal to mainstream voters in order to win government.

There aren't too many more opportunities for the Nats - they won every seat they made the 2PP count in at the last state election IIRC. And the Libs have shown over and over again an unwillingness to not run in seats or run dead that other major parties just seem to be able to avoid. I think our side of politics have bigger issues (and more straightforward ones to fix) before worrying about maximising return on investment on the Coalition agreement.

I think coalitions are fine in Government, but in opposition they blunt the ability to oppose from a broader range.

I agree there are other pressing problems, it appears they're mostly confined to the Liberal Party, rather than the Nats - who I'd always thought were traditionally more socially conservative than the Libs.

 

[carltonchelsea]

They can win by disappearing forever!

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Vett all candidates so to keep the nutters at bay.

Promote the ideal of future hope.

Redirect spending into areas that need additional funds.

Remove red tape and streamline government planning.

Give IBAC some real powers.

Trim the fat out of the Public Services.

They'd have to start over if they wanted to keep the nutters at bay.