Traded Jason Horne-Francis [to Port Adelaide in multi-club trade]

[philthy05]

Are GWS looking to use picks 3, 12, 15, 18 and 19 purely for the draft? Or do they want to get some players in via trade?

Maybe we could upgrade pick 33 or 43 for one those later picks and offer up Byrne-Jones or Bonner?

We genuinely need to trade away a player for 2nd round. Can't see it happening another way.

Hayes, Drew, Bonner, DBJ, Farrell. DBJ with most value in that lot perhaps as an All-Australian and club BnF although he was off it best this year. I know he just resigned but yeah either him or Drew

In all seriousness North have actually done fine out of this deal. So have West Coast. GWS showed up, bent over and handed over the lube to make it work for everyone else, and I salute them for it.

Yeah I think north have done well. What more can you hope for to get for a player that wants out than a similar pick + a future 1st on top. That’s a good deal.

Also west coast, despite people knocking them to get out of pick 2 and the private school vic boys and into hewett territory , whose not far behind, if at all those vic boys plus get another pick. That’s good for them.

Ports given up a lot, but the fact we get future 2nds and 3rds back helps a lot,

In the end rozee butters jhf Bergman sinn to look forward too in our midfield.

I really rate that group of players as a future midfield. High end young talent there.

 

[Schulzenfest]

North just flat out arent getting a better deal than that, it would be insane not to take it. If North are genuinely open to trading down from 1 then they take that deal

That's too much from Port (even aside the approval needed for the F1/F2) though but other things could even it out

'Other things' more than likely being Rioli.

 

[Scotland]

North just flat out arent getting a better deal than that, it would be insane not to take it. If North are genuinely open to trading down from 1 then they take that deal

That's too much from Port (even aside the approval needed for the F1/F2) though but other things could even it out

Take GWS out of it and it's still Port attempting to get JHF for 8 and a future first and change, or 2 and change.

GWS' desire to trade up from 1 to 3 should be a separate discussion altogether.

 

[Kangas_11]

North just flat out arent getting a better deal than that, it would be insane not to take it. If North are genuinely open to trading down from 1 then they take that deal

That's too much from Port (even aside the approval needed for the F1/F2) though but other things could even it out

I think North can still do better, plus there's no benefit to GWS or North by combining the deals.

Trading down from 1 should have nothing to do with Port or WC, as they don't add any value to either side in this mega trade.

I understand what you meant earlier regarding players rather than draft picks driving value, but there is only 1 elite tier KPF in the draft in Cadman. North have as much a need for that position as GWS, so it would need to be a really good deal to pry that pick away.

Honestly, #1 > #3 + #12 + #19 is the most likely trade IMO.

But there's no reason for North and GWS not do this deal separately from the JHF / pick 2 trade.

 

[Schulzenfest]

lHonestly, #1 > #3 + #12 + #19 is the most likely trade IMO.

Laughable. If GWS did that deal they should sack everyone involved tomorrow. Good to know the North supporter delusion extends beyond JHF.

 

[Schulzenfest]

So something like this?

WC

OUT: 2
IN: 8, 12, 33

North

OUT: JHF, 1
IN: 2, 3, future 1st (Port), future 2nd (Port)

GWS

OUT: 3, 12
IN: 1

Port

OUT: 8, 33, future 1st, future 2nd
IN: JHF

I still don't see North going for it.

North's list manager has publicly stated the price for JHF to be a top 5 pick and a future first. They get that for JHF in this deal. So you can tick that bit off.

Take JHF, #3 and the future first out, you're left with #1 for #2 and a second rounder. We know GWS want Cadman. Excluding Ashcroft who isn't available to anyone but Brisbane, this isn't a year like last year where there was a clear number 1 pick. You can just about throw a blanket over the top 4.

Do North rate Cadman so much higher than Wardlaw/Tsatas/Sheezel that they wouldn't take an outright second rounder to swap one for the other? Maybe. But I imagine that if they do, they wouldn't have bothered being open to trading pick 1 in the first place.

Pick numbers are ultimately meaningless. Draft picks don't play football. What matters is the players available at those picks. If North Melbourne desperately want Cadman and aren't prepared to give him up, then they shouldn't do this deal, but they should also tell GWS to bugger off. If they're not all that fussed on Cadman v Wardlaw/Tsatas/Sheezel, then the only reason not to do that deal would be out of some vengeful desire to screw over Port. And while I'm sure a lot of their Bigfooty fans would be happy with that, their list manager will show some more sense. Rawlings' job is to get a good result for North Melbourne, not a bad result for Port Adelaide.

 

[Kangas_11]

Laughable. If GWS did that deal they should sack everyone involved tomorrow. Good to know the North supporter delusion extends beyond JHF.

It is substantially less delusional that Port fans thinking they can get JHF for pick 8 + F1.

GWS and Brisbane did the following trade in 2016:

#3 + #16 > #2 + #31 + #51 + #60

That's the precedent for trading up, and that's not even up to pick 1, if they were to go one higher, another mid first would've been required at least.

Regardless, literally none of it needs to involve Port, which is my main point.

 

[Schulzenfest]

It is substantially less delusional that Port fans thinking they can get JHF for pick 8 + F1.

Cool. Nobody thinks that.

GWS and Brisbane did the following trade in 2016:

#3 + #16 > #2 + #31 + #51 + #60

That's the precedent for trading up, and that's not even up to pick 1, if they were to go one higher, another mid first would've been required at least.

Regardless, literally none of it needs to involve Port, which is my main point.

Err ... yeah. That proves my point, not yours.

The precedent for moving up is 16 for 31 + 51 + 60. 12 alone with nothing going back is a significantly better deal than that. You're asking for 12 AND 19 with nothing going back. Madness.

 

[Kangas_11]

Cool. Nobody thinks that.

Oh my bad, I forgot to add Riley Bonner lol.

 

[2006_Eagles]

Thankfully cooler heads than all of us still have 5 days to work through things.

I'm sure they are looking for possibilities and North would be trying to work with Jase to make thing tenable for 23 if it doesn't work out.

Now Dunkley for PSD 1..... I'm in

I hope you didn't spend all the Dunkley fund on Logue

 

[2006_Eagles]

Eagles reamed there.

If we send out 38 instead of 26 it becomes more reasonable

 

[Kangas_11]

Err ... yeah. That proves my point, not yours.

The precedent for moving up is 16 for 31 + 51 + 60. 12 alone with nothing going back is a significantly better deal than that. You're asking for 12 AND 19 with nothing going back. Madness.

What are you talking about? That's going from #3 > #2, not #3 > #1, of course it's going to be significantly better than that.

There would probably be future picks and swaps to go back, potentially a swap of our F2 for GWS F3, to balance it out, but it still needs to be a significant investment to move up at the top end of the draft.

 

[Hawks_4478]

North just flat out arent getting a better deal than that, it would be insane not to take it. If North are genuinely open to trading down from 1 then they take that deal

That's too much from Port (even aside the approval needed for the F1/F2) though but other things could even it out

West coast getting screwed over majorly in that deal - they would have to be crazy to go for it.

 

[Schulzenfest]

What are you talking about? That's going from #3 > #2, not #3 > #1, of course it's going to be significantly better than that.

There would probably be future picks and swaps to go back, potentially a swap of our F2 for GWS F3, to balance it out, but it still needs to be a significant investment to move up at the top end of the draft.

If 3 to 2 is worth 16 with 31 + 51 + 60 coming back, but 3 to 1 is worth 12 and 19 with nothing coming back, that would make 1 + 16 worth the same as 2 + 12 + 19 + 31 + 51 + 60. In other words, an upgrade of 16 to 12 plus 19 outright + 31 outright + 51 outright + 60 outright for the sake of one pick. Ludicrous.

I can't believe you were the one who tracked down that precedent and presented it like it supported your argument.

 

[Kangas_11]

If 3 to 2 is worth 16 with 31 + 51 + 60 coming back, but 3 to 1 is worth 12 and 19 with nothing coming back, that would make 1 + 16 worth the same as 2 + 12 + 19 + 31 + 51 + 60. In other words, an upgrade of 16 to 12 plus 19 outright + 31 outright + 51 outright + 60 outright for the sake of one pick. Ludicrous.

I can't believe you were the one who tracked down that precedent and presented it like it supported your argument.

Eh, you know what, you make some reasonable points. Happy to see that my original suggestion was overs, there would definitely need to be a F2 or favorable pick swaps going back to GWS to even it out if we wanted 3 + 12 + 19.

I still don't think 3 + 12 gets it done by itself, just due to the premium of Cadman as the best KPF, but we'll see.

Regardless, port and JHF don't need to be involved in the slightest.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Eh, you know what, you make some reasonable points.

Well that's not in the spirit of this thread at all

 

[QPower]

Deal will be done.

North has been leaking JHF’s every misstep to the media all year and having their media surrogates (like King) attack him. The relationship between club and player is irreparable.

The situation is completely untenable in terms of him being able to return and North will take what they can and make off like bandits.

 

[bootz79]

Port at the moment don’t have enough asset to complete the trade of Rioli and JHF, then they go add Ratugolea into the players they are chasing . This is all the asset they have available: Pick 8 / 33 / 43 / 53 / 57 / 60plus future first

Pick 53/57 and 60 have zero value the draft will probably finish at 50 .

West coast will want 33 and 43 for Rioli at a minimum.

That leave 8 and future first for Horne and that isn’t happen .
They need to find a decent play to move on otherwise they have made a lot of promises and can’t deliver them

 

[kreuze_missile]

If North think Aaron Cadman is a future hall of fame forward then they must keep pick #1 and draft him.

Otherwise they should be trading the pick regardless of what happens with JH-F.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Port at the moment don’t have enough asset to complete the trade of Rioli and JHF, then they go add Ratugolea into the players they are chasing . This is all the asset they have available: Pick 8 / 33 / 43 / 53 / 57 / 60plus future first

Pick 53/57 and 60 have zero value the draft will probably finish at 50 .

West coast will want 33 and 43 for Rioli at a minimum.

That leave 8 and future first for Horne and that isn’t happen .
They need to find a decent play to move on otherwise they have made a lot of promises and can’t deliver them

JH-F is the only player with any real currency they are chasing.

Ratatouli can't get a game and Cheeseburger Rioli hasn't done much since 2018.

Adding two fringe players doesn't do much to port's chances in 2023 IMO. I wouldn't want to part with a pick inside 45 for either.

 

[Financialpanther]

Oh my bad, I forgot to add Riley Bonner lol.

Then your trade idea is not Bonner-fide

 

[Farang83150]

JH-F is the only player with any real currency they are chasing.

Ratatouli can't get a game and Cheeseburger Rioli hasn't done much since 2018.

Adding two fringe players doesn't do much to port's chances in 2023 IMO. I wouldn't want to part with a pick inside 45 for either.

port have fa currency, they're the ones trying to leech other teams picks, no use port fans coming in saying what Nth, WC or GWS HAVE to do or accept to get the deal over the line because they're the only ones that need the trade.
And as for whinging and saying oh but we don't want Rioli, well blame your recruiting dept for that.
So it's pay overs or don't do the trade, easy.

 

[Ry009]

Still no deal proposed publicly where one club doesn't get shafted.

Still can't see this trade happening.

 

[Wild Bill]

Deal will be done.

North has been leaking JHF’s every misstep to the media all year and having their media surrogates (like King) attack him. The relationship between club and player is irreparable.

The situation is completely untenable in terms of him being able to return and North will take what they can and make off like bandits.

That’s tin foil hat level of crazy posting.

 

[CrowToon]

Still no deal proposed publicly where one club doesn't get shafted.

Still can't see this trade happening.

It has to. I think too much water has gone under the bridge for it not to happen and besides, whatever North get this year is more than they will get next year. Have to remember if it doesn't go through you've got an unhappy kid who has shown himself to be well short of the professionalism and maturity required at the level. Can be detrimental to a club that.

So I do see it getting done but the utter arrogance of Port to not offer up a player of quality should be enough for other clubs to take note for future trades that Port is a club that doesn't act in good faith.

 

[Ry009]

It has to. I think too much water has gone under the bridge for it not to happen and besides, whatever North get this year is more than they will get next year. Have to remember if it doesn't go through you've got an unhappy kid who has shown himself to be well short of the professionalism and maturity required at the level. Can be detrimental to a club that.

So I do see it getting done but the utter arrogance of Port to not offer up a player of quality should be enough for other clubs to take note for future trades that Port is a club that doesn't act in good faith.

I've posted it several times, but will again.

Letting a draftee go out the door sends the message to future draftees that it's ok to ignore the 2 year contract and seek an out if you aren't happy.

Letting a draftee with the high value out the door for unders (and to be honest we constantly have been pretty limp at the trade for some time) that we'll happily accept unders in the future and managers will take advantage of that.

Draftees compared to established players are unknown quantities. They're aren't any available in the proposed trades that aren't fringe players or of considerable value.

Yes, probably still likely to go home in 12 months, but to me all of the above, is far riskier than having another 12 months with JHF.

No one can predict what will happen in 12 months. And no-one know what has been discussed between JHF, the players and coaching staff at North.

People need to stop pointing at 'take what you can get/shit attitude' as a reason for accepting unders. Not enough IMO.

We may very well bend over and accept unders but would irresponsible IMO.