List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Beyond Blue]

I don't think we have a 'ruck situation', but we'd definitely be in strife if heaven forbid TDK went down. Mirkov is still too raw and inconsistent in the VFL to be close to AFL selection, so we are certainly a bit light on depth. That being said I think we're better off getting a key forward/ruck rather than solely a 4th ruckman.

Yes but pretty much every team in the comp would have a problem if their first two ruckmen go down injured, for example…Melb - Gawn, Jackson, ???…Saints - Marshall, Ryder, ???

It’s almost impossible to have that much depth that your third choice ruckman is going to be a really good player.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Preseason the expectation of tdk was to pinch hit in the ruck and play mostly forward. Wouldn't have been expected to be first ruck for a season or two. People forget this.

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You’re are probably right but it’s a brave move to then only have one other realistic ruck option on the list and that player (Pitto) also missed half of last season.

 

[katmanblue]

Maybe a few of the Big Name posters need to learn some humility, based on the pathetic 'he said she said' arguments on this site recently??? Not hard to say sorry posters, maybe more of us could acknowledge it, what a better world it would be. Can't buy, fake, or sell humility, it's innate..

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[The Blue Weirdo]

Maybe a few of the Big Name posters need to learn some humility, based on the pathetic 'he said she said' arguments on this site recently??? Not hard to say sorry posters, maybe more of us could acknowledge it, what a better world it would be. Can't buy, fake, or sell humility, it's innate..

Good post.
There's no need for aggression, show some class. (and that includes Carlton player criticism)

 

[Maverick000]

With our ruck situation, would it be best to look at a

Young Ruckman
Sam Hayes - Struggling to get a game for Port, proved he could play at the level
In Their Prime Ruckman
Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

- Would he be worth looking at if Pies pay $300k odd of his salary?
Last legs Ruckman
Goldstein - Looked like a great leader and teacher on "on the couch"

There’s a strange stink coming from Alberton re Hayes. Didn’t get a run for so many years, then this year is finally given a short go only to be overlooked in favour of down hill skier Finlayson, then mid season recruit Teakle, and now Finlayson again. Feels like buyer beware


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[le dominateur]

We definitely need a legitimate ruck option beyond Pitto. I don't rate TDK as a legitimate no 1 ruck. The worst list management decision in Austin's time at the club. Especially when we let Casboult go. Crazy stuff. The entire plan was for Pitto to never get.

This is the same TDK that took 3 last quarter contested marks against the Bummers to help get us over the line. If he continues his current trajectory will be in the top 2 or 3 ruckman in the league in a couple of years.


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[goreds]

This is the same TDK that took 3 last quarter contested marks against the Bummers to help get us over the line. If he continues his current trajectory will be in the top 2 or 3 ruckman in the league in a couple of years.


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He is an offensive ruckman, I looking forward to the day he is taught the skill of drifting across halfback, plucking the ball out of the air and giving it to the runners. It will give us a new dimension to rebound. Pitto does this very well and we are missing it at the moment...

 

[Christou2Kouta]

He is an offensive ruckman, I looking forward to the day he is taught the skill of drifting across halfback, plucking the ball out of the air and giving it to the runners. It will give us a new dimension to rebound. Pitto does this very well and we are missing it at the moment...

Pitto in 2022
Average marks per game: 1.8
Average intercept marks per game: 0.4
Average contested marks per game: 0.4

TDK in 2022
Average marks per game: 2.8
Average intercept marks per game: 0.9
Average contested marks per game: 1.7

I think Pitto's biggest contribution to the side is his hit out to advantage rate and that he makes life hard for his opposing ruck. He's also a big presence around the stoppage who can throw his weight around. His marking is basically at the level of Barnaby French which is why so many of us want to see TDK continue to develop and seize the number one mantle at some point. For now, Pitto is the one who best enables us to play the style of footy we want to play and his weakness in marking is offset by the fact that at our best we have plenty of other blokes who can take contested marks.

 

[goreds]

Pitto in 2022
Average marks per game: 1.8
Average intercept marks per game: 0.4
Average contested marks per game: 0.4

TDK in 2022
Average marks per game: 2.8
Average intercept marks per game: 0.9
Average contested marks per game: 1.7

I think Pitto's biggest contribution to the side is his hit out to advantage rate and that he makes life hard for his opposing ruck. He's also a big presence around the stoppage who can throw his weight around. His marking is basically at the level of Barnaby French which is why so many of us want to see TDK continue to develop and seize the number one mantle at some point. For now, Pitto is the one who best enables us to play the style of footy we want to play and his weakness in marking is offset by the fact that at our best we have plenty of other blokes who can take contested marks.

My perspective is not built on pure numbers...

Yes TDK takes more marks but, it's about which way are they facing.

What I mean by that is, do you have your defensive goal behind you or your offensive goal behind you...

TDK takes most of his marks with his back towards our offensive goal not the defensive.

Pitto is in reverse!

Whether they take the mark or not is not the key, more that the contest is there, especially when the opposition is streaming out of their defensive end, nothing better than a big ruckman intercepting or killing a contest which gives us the chance to reset or rebound.

TDK has not learned this skill yet, look out when he does!

IMHO

 

[thylacine60]

Don't agree DeKoning at 22 is basically shouldering a heavy load without geninue support, l think people are just too impatient with their expectations.

Yep. More worshipping at the Great Temple of Should.

 

[smashbox gill]

TDK is so young still and has been thrown in the deep end. Also had an interrupted preseason.

Yes we’ve missed Pitto who has the body to compete with the bigger bodies.

This is valuable learning experience for TDK and he will be better for it.

He might end up a 1st ruck in time or might be a 2nd ruck/KPF.

However can these throw TDK to defence calls stop just because his brother is a KFD doesn’t mean he is.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Think De Koning is best suited to be playing the forward/2nd ruck role...
He's not strong or smart enough yet to be playing the #1 ruck role...

We can't go through this situation again if Pittonet goes down, its costing us in clearance...
Mirkov hasn't achieved anything and is no guarantee to make it at AFL level...

Personally I'd like to get an old AFL ruck, who wants to continue their career
and is happy to bide their time (form drop or injuries) for a stop gap...
Gives Mirkov the time he needs to have a proper crack at it, don't think he's ready yet...

Goldy would be perfect except he would want to play...

Yeah, gotta try and catch someone in their last couple of years, where their current club already have a younger bloke ready to step up.

Goldy would be ideal if he's keen.
Ryder could be another, injury prone though so would be a matter of nursing him through some VFL as a playing coach and having him ready to replace Pitto if needed.
Stanley, if Geelong finally decide to try and recruit a proper ruckman.
McEvoy if Hawthorn want to be ruthless with their list management.
NicNat for a year, similar situation to Ryder?

Or if we want to go the untried route, I think Gold Coast have a few spare rucks on their list and (if I'm not mistaken) will likely need to cut back some of their excess rookies.

Pat Murtagh - 22yo, 196cm, 98kg, forward/ruck - rookie listed
Caleb Graham - 21yo, 195cm, 96kg, defender/ruck - out of contract
Matt Conroy - 21yo, 199cm, 95kg, ruck - rookie listed
Ned Moyle - 20yo, 205cm, 96kg, ruck - rookie listed

 

[thylacine60]

"Still in a list build phase".

M. Voss
Melbourne, 2022

 

[macky99]

Think De Koning is best suited to be playing the forward/2nd ruck role...
He's not strong or smart enough yet to be playing the #1 ruck role...

We can't go through this situation again if Pittonet goes down, its costing us in clearance...
Mirkov hasn't achieved anything and is no guarantee to make it at AFL level...

Personally I'd like to get an old AFL ruck, who wants to continue their career
and is happy to bide their time (form drop or injuries) for a stop gap...
Gives Mirkov the time he needs to have a proper crack at it, don't think he's ready yet...

Goldy would be perfect except he would want to play...

You can also argue if De Koning & Pittonet are available on a ongoing basis, that leaves that ruckman in the reserves, if l am DeKoning and we bring in another ruck with a view to playing in the ruck that shows a lack of confidence in him, keep the faith in the direction he is tracking and find a flexible tall that can key position with a stint in the ruck as required. Sure Geelong would be keen to have him there with his brother looking like a gun long term defender.

 

[chunkylover53]

Don't agree DeKoning at 22 is basically shouldering a heavy load without geninue support, l think people are just too impatient with their expectations.

Doesn't make what the poster said wrong though?

TDK is doing an incredible job but we'd rather not throw him to the wolves like this and have a mature backup for Pitto. Having no insurance in case he got injured is probably one of the very few misses from Austin. Hopefully it's fixed in the off-season.

Personally I don't reckon TDK will end up as our ruck. Wouldn't surprise me if he just ended up as a genuine swingman. Like a much better version of Casboult.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

getting a ruck would also help with KPF depth as if we really get stuck TDK can fill that role. We can probably only afford a C grader at best but I think it certainly needs to be addressed.
With TDK going into his 6th season next year I do expect him to be able to be capable of carrying the number one mantle if needed though.

 

[bigblueboy]

"Still in a list build phase".

M. Voss
Melbourne, 2022

Was definitive and direct. He knows what he wants - will make for a very interesting off season.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Would rather go the experienced old bloke wanting to extend his time on an AFL list, who is happy waiting on an injury...
Allowing Mirkov to continue to develop...

We have 3 young ruckman already, don't want another unless we are getting rid of or upgrading to an elite one...

Same, but wanting it doesn't mean it'll be available.

Elder statesman > hungry fringe ruck > ordinary forward/ruck.

That's my order of preference I think. Giving Mirkov some competition, and us some variety, in the form of a more Pittonet-esque young ruckman - probably smart.

 

[Jeremias]

Not at all against bringing in additional support in the ruck but we should only be looking at someone who can spend most of their time in another position.

Bringing in a mature ruck who can't contribute elsewhere would be a poor decision IMO.

 

[macky99]

Doesn't make what the poster said wrong though?

TDK is doing an incredible job but we'd rather not throw him to the wolves like this and have a mature backup for Pitto. Having no insurance in case he got injured is probably one of the very few misses from Austin. Hopefully it's fixed in the off-season.

Personally I don't reckon TDK will end up as our ruck. Wouldn't surprise me if he just ended up as a genuine swingman. Like a much better version of Casboult.

Everyone is naturally entitled to a opinion on this, but after reading a number of these posts some people need to

Why would TDK have an issue us bring in cover, for if he or Pittonet go down injured?
A ruck that want's to extend their career ala a Goldy (type), would only be insurance for injury until Mirkov is ready...

If we want to push for a flag, we cant go another year like this year struggling in the ruck with makeshift ruckman...

As for TDK might want to go to Geelong...
We can't hurt our list build or flag tilt, because we're scared a player might leave...

If anyone wants to leave we get fairly compensated and move on...

Why would TDK have an issue us bring in cover, for if he or Pittonet go down injured?
A ruck that want's to extend their career ala a Goldy (type), would only be insurance for injury until Mirkov is ready...

If we want to push for a flag, we cant go another year like this year struggling in the ruck with makeshift ruckman...

As for TDK might want to go to Geelong...
We can't hurt our list build or flag tilt, because we're scared a player might leave...

If anyone wants to leave we get fairly compensated and move on...

You make the point we cannot go another year with makeshift ruckman.
l am certain the key people at Carlton don't share that view and see DeKoning as a key part of our ruck plans and is two years away from his best and this year is only going to fast track his development.

l believe we are better served finding a key position player than can pinch hit in the ruck rather than someone at the back end of their career.

Also depends on the durability of Pittonet and whether he can be on the field consistently like many other injury prone players we have.

 

[Justnetime]

Will be interesting to see what Austin does this off season. I’m with Arrow in that he has missed KPP depth but think he will address it this offseason. Yes, people can cite names that are tall. But Oscar mac, McGovern, Marchbank and Durdin are injury prone not to mention one of our key forwards. He needs to take that into account over retaining 5 wingers who are all average to poor on their day.

Austin shipped out SPS based on stats/traits for both midfielder and half back. He traded in players that had the right stats/traits over a good sample size in Hewett, Cerra, Williams, Saad etc. e.g. Saads metres gained was huge and something that we needed. SPS metres gained was almost horrific.

The ruck is interesting. I feel Austin lists the ruck stats/traits with his analysis. This will show TDK is some way off the standard and we are in our window age / quality wise. I feel our CBA dominance depends on having a half decent ruck. Without it games can go bad. Will he address it. Will he just hope for Pitto. Mirkov? This would be causing him nightmares.

He can’t solve everything in one off season. His wishes would be 1 KPD, 1 ruck in the top 12 rankings, 1 winger above average, and maybe a small forward of class. Not in order. Maybe he just has to cross his fingers on Pitto, Mirkov and TDK. The stoppage losses in lost games for mine have been on TDK not the mids. Don’t know if I’m right, just my opinion.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The old Goldy (type ruck) would be cover for if either were injured...
Would give Mirkov time to develop, because his still very raw...

Goldy would take up another valuable list spot though.
I'd prefer to take the patient approach and draft a top young KPF/ruck and take our chances with losing TDK and Pitto to injuries next year.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I really wouldn’t be surprised if we moved on only one tall in Parks and bring in 4 talls. If we bring in a mature ruck forward and KD then draft another KD and a KF then our list, at least on paper looks much more balanced.
The only problem is then in 12 months we have no guarantees on any of Gov, Marchbank, Mirkov, Kemp, McDonald, Durdin and considering they would be cheap options the mature ruck and KD we hopefully pick up this season, and the KD and KF we hopefully draft. Huge question marks over the entire lot of them even as depth players. Plowman is about the only possible depth player who can be relied on atm. Austin has a very tough job but I think luck will also play a big part.

 

[katmanblue]

Goldy would take up another valuable list spot though.
I'd prefer to take the patient approach and draft a top young KPF/ruck and take our chances with losing TDK and Pitto to injuries next year.

Might depend on how someone like Omac pulls up. They might think that omac and young are enough cover next year, if omac isn't projected to have any more issues. Especially if durdin stays on the list.

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[Kreuuuzeurns]

Mirkov is very raw but in another 12 months he should be okay to cover if injuries hit. Young and Durdin/McDonald are capable.

I think we are okay for ruckman next year. A young tall forward who can pinch hit is more important.