News Maguire in mix to join Carlton's pre-season

[Jimthegreat]

and no lateral movement.. and slow as treacle.. and couldnt force his way into the side in front of Dawson...

How was he going to get in ahead of Dawson. Dawson had a terrific year.

Think of a player's performance, not their name.

If Cloke goes we need a big body short-term as most of tall are still "growing". If that senario occurs I'd take him.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Exactly? There is nothing exact about sports medicine and science, despite it being very advanced.

Didn't Hawthorn's and Collingwood's medical staff know exactly about how Selwood's injury condition was before deciding not to draft him

What about Geelong? Did they know exactly what would happen to to Egan when he made the infamous last ditch effort to return from injury for the '07 Granny?

etc etc

Not to mention Stevie J failing Collingwood's medical when he was up for trade at the end of 2006. Hence they didn't take him. He went on to win the Norm Smith Medal for the Cats in 2007.

 

[BlueYoss]

3 sayings come to mind here,

"A faint heart never won a fair maiden"

"nothing ventured nothing gained"

And....."his goose is cooked"

"Break a leg"?

 

[thylacine60]

A goose in hand is worth two in the Ants?

 

[windows]

Exactly? There is nothing exact about sports medicine and science, despite it being very advanced.

Didn't Hawthorn's and Collingwood's medical staff know exactly about how Selwood's injury condition was before deciding not to draft him

What about Geelong? Did they know exactly what would happen to to Egan when he made the infamous last ditch effort to return from injury for the '07 Granny?

etc etc

Minor correction: Collingwood didn't pass on Selwood. Selwood went at 7 to the Cats. Pies had the next pick at 8. And I think 'drafting' is a little different than having a guy on your list. The medicos would know more about a guy on their list who they can watch all year than they would a guy they get to run a few tests over prior to drafting.

 

[HBF]

Not to mention Stevie J failing Collingwood's medical when he was up for trade at the end of 2006. Hence they didn't take him. He went on to win the Norm Smith Medal for the Cats in 2007.

Beat me to it Jim. As I understand it, the trade had been agreed upon, and it was the doctors that thought his knee was shot. Amazing really.

 

[CUG81]

Some people really enjoy saying that because Maguire couldn't force his way into the side ahead of Dawson he is shot. Dawson actually played a very solid year, he spoiled well, had the pace to keep to his opponents and was accountable. Maguire was mentioned as a possible replacement for Dawson pre-Grand Final despite this form. I am NOT saying Maguire was kept out by a better player, but rather when you are a coach and your FB is playing solid football you don't want to affect team harmony by throwing out a player in form.

Maguire should get a shot to see if he can handlehis injuries, if he can at least still play on the gorillas then i would pick him up so that we can use him in games with key match-ups on power-forwards. Would like to see him get some back on Hall after the 2006 debacle

Nicely put! The Saints had a winning formula and Max and Maguire were not being chosen because the Saints had that right formula. If it aint broke, dont fix...type terminology. Especially when it is KPP...you can tweak your flankers or midfielders through the year, but you dont mess with your spine.

I'm not saying Maguire is going to come out and play as well as did many seasons ago. I just feel that we do need a big man down back and Waite after doing his knee, should return in the forward line, plus he has the potential to kick the most goals for us up there anyway.

unless the club is deadset on playing Austin at CHB next season, then i think Maguire could be quite useful for us as a CHB.

 

[Azul]

unless the club is deadset on playing Austin at CHB next season, then i think Maguire could be quite useful for us as a CHB.

I see where you and HARKER are going with this but Austin was never going to be the fulltime CHB in 2010. He's a year younger than Bower but is only a 15-game veteran. The plan for this year was for him to do an apprenticeship under Waite but, as we know, that didn't work out. I'd expect more of the same this year.

The question is, does Maguire bring enough to the table as a defender or a we better playing Waite there again?

Only a preseason will reveal whether he's capable of recapturing his form of 4 years ago...

 

[blueblood25]

Hopefully having Harvey on board won't be bias when it comes to assessing Matt's potential to make it back at AFL level. Bit like Carrol training with the Aints' last year but not getting picked up (even though Carrol being an absolute idiot isn't a very good example...) March is a longgg way away.

 

[Bluebear]

For mine it comes down to, not whether he can re-capture his form pre-injury (which he probably can't), but whether with his form last year whether he fits into our best 22 and whether he is a better 4-6 year prospect than whoever we might look at for pick 59+.

I don't know the answers, but the fact he couldn't get a senior game at the Saints doesn't mean much to me. They had the best defensive unit in the comp and not often getting injuries last year. Hughton would have played every game for us last year, but barely got into the Saints bext 22.

So is he a better prospct than a late pick? Wait and see.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

For mine it comes down to, not whether he can re-capture his form pre-injury (which he probably can't), but whether with his form last year whether he fits into our best 22 and whether he is a better 4-6 year prospect than whoever we might look at for pick 59+.

I don't know the answers, but the fact he couldn't get a senior game at the Saints doesn't mean much to me. They had the best defensive unit in the comp and not often getting injuries last year. Hughton would have played every game for us last year, but barely got into the Saints bext 22.

So is he a better prospct than a late pick? Wait and see.

Guys think about it St.Kilda didn't get rid of him for nothing. But I do get the feeling that Ross Lyon has the tendancy to get rid of players he doesn't like. Goose could be one of them.

 

[major_blue]

just because goose wasnt in the saints 22 this year is no reason not to select him.

guys like austin , bower and so on wouldnt have got a game either.

 

[MileHigh]

I have something to say. Rare, but it does happen.

A few things have come up at a result of this thread - Maguire, Waite, Austin, Lyon.

Ross Lyon - I dont like the guy. Yes granted, great year with only 3 losses but something about him doesnt sit well with me. The Hudghton scenario, he said about Dawson who took his place who almost didnt get up because he was sick, that he would instead brought in Geary instead. He also said after the GF loss that anyone who doesnt want to pull their weight next year can leave... not geez we had a great year, well done on only losing 2 games we deserved that flag lets rinse and repeat that season effort and get ourselves that flag next year... nothing positive. Nothing. Some call it driven. Its not my kind of motivation. Hudghton is a positive guy. The way he held himself through GF week was amazing and spoke of his character. A polar opposite to Lyon. Some players dont respond well to this type of coaching. I sure as hell wouldnt.

Waite - He was originally a forward player. He was moved back because we were getting killed back there spread so thinly. We have lost Fevola. Waite is the x-factor to replace him up forward. Just before he injured himself he played on Riewoldt, kept him goalless I believe and had kicked 3 goals on him. He is an amazing player one-on-one. Return to forward line.

Austin - Will be a great player. The commentators comment on him. They notice he has something. The only negative ive noted is some unhappiness with umpire decisions which rattles him. Thats it. Hes only young but a bloody good defender. Great size, great mobility, can play tall or small, makes smart decisions, times his spoils perfectly (very Waite in this regard).

Macguire - See comments on Lyon. We dont need to take safe bets like we did with Johnson. We need to take a risk. He is a KPP who was bloody good. He didnt get a chance this year, hes been injured prior to this. Lyon became coach in 2007. According to Wikipedia -

--
Maguire made his return to the AFL in Round 1 of the 2007 season only to be further sidelined with stress fractures in his foot. He returned once again in the Saint's Round 14 loss against Collingwood and although he played out the remainder of the year it was clear that he was a shadow of his former self. At the end of the 2007 season it was revealed that after experiencing soreness during training he had once again suffered stress fractures in his foot, preventing him from participating in the majority of the Saint's pre-season.

After finally returning in Round 4, 2008, Maguire suffered another blow in Round 7 in a St Kilda vs Richmond game. Once again he injured his left foot, which effectively sidelined him until the end of the 2008 AFL season. Maguire had surgery to repair a fracture to the fourth metatarsal, one of the long bones that connects the middle of the foot to the base of the toes.

The St Kilda football manager, Matthew Drain, said that although Maguire most likely would not return in 2009 this may be the best chance of him getting everything right without the pressure of playing and may turn out to be the best thing for him in the long run.

Maguire spent most of the 2009 season playing for St Kilda Football Club's VFL affiliate the Sandringham Zebras.
--

Whats the feedback on his form this year for Sandringham? Barring a negative response to this I say take him. Harvey has just taken a step up and obviously has put in a good word. Lets take him.

Someone call Wayne Hughes and inform him of our decision

 

[Ryan Dixon Webb]

I remember reading about Maguire doing quite well up forward in the VFL mid-year.

 

[Dramoth]

"Break a leg"?

Actually, it was my elbow and I only broke it about 4 hours ago...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Actually, it was my elbow and I only broke it about 4 hours ago...

Ouch, how on earth did you manage that?

 

[Dramoth]

Ouch, how on earth did you manage that?

riding my bike into work this morning, was crossing some tram tracks here in Manchester and run over them at the wrong angle and skidded on the metal (riding a mountain bike with knobblies over slippery metal might not be such a good idea) and went down... wasnt to painful at first so I kept riding into work...

by the time I got here, it was pure agony, so off to the hospital I went...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So how are you going to get to work now?

Did you go in, feign a trip on the stairs so you can recuperate on full pay?

 

[Silvagnis]

For mine it comes down to, not whether he can re-capture his form pre-injury (which he probably can't), but whether with his form last year whether he fits into our best 22 and whether he is a better 4-6 year prospect than whoever we might look at for pick 59+.

Does Saddington fit into our best 22 because he kicks bag in the VFL?

Rather take another kid.

I don't know the answers, but the fact he couldn't get a senior game at the Saints doesn't mean much to me. They had the best defensive unit in the comp and not often getting injuries last year. Hughton would have played every game for us last year, but barely got into the Saints bext 22.

Geelong had the best backline last year.

St Kilda didn't win the flag.

Hudghton couldn't get a game ahead of Dawson after he beat Fevola last year.

I wouldn't have picked Maguire and Dawson in the side ahead of Jamison and Waite last year.

Sam Fisher yes, not Hudghton and Dawson.

So is he a better prospct than a late pick? Wait and see.

Wait and see?

Carlton has to make a decision.

The Saints would have had suitors who would have put Maguire through the medical and traded for him if he was right to go.

They wouldn't have delisted Maguire without trying to find him another club.

Maguire has as much chance of being a player again as Brad Fisher.

Both were rated as up and comers a few seasons ago, yet both can't get on the park for one reason or another.

No thanks.

I hazard a guess that Maguire's body is too "broken" to play AFL again.

Would rather get a fit new player into the club by giving our recruiting department another chance to find something late.

Weak draft or not.

 

[celtic_pride]

Point of order to the General's previous post, bad weather, and bad weather only cost st.kilda the premiership this year. If it was sunny, like it was for the past several Grand Finals, the Saints would have easily won the GF by 5 goals plus, and Riewoldt and Kosi would have been far more effective, especially when you consider Riewoldt went into the game carrying an injury that would have kept him out of the regular season for a couple of weeks.

The Saints were the victims of extremely bad luck, not because of a so-called bad backline ... Geelong didn't win the Grand Final because they were the best team all year, or had the best backline, they 'bradburyed' the flag, just like ironically Hawthorn last year.

Unless you have an structured fowardline with at least one key position foward capable of kicking 50 plus goals a season, in the current AFL climate, your not going to come close to winning a flag, that is why trading Fev is going to hurt the club for several years.

Frankly I'd back Adelaide to be a very strong premiership chance again in the next few years, considering the amazing fowardline they are building right now ...
Unless we can pluck an Kurt Tippett gem out of the draft in the next year or two, the premiership window will remain ajar/if not closed firmly.

I would speculate that if the Bulldogs had Fevola this year, they would have won the flag, no doubt they had the Saints on the rack in the Prelim final, and probably would have beaten the Handbags in the Grand Final as well

 

[Dramoth]

So how are you going to get to work now?

Did you go in, feign a trip on the stairs so you can recuperate on full pay?

I'll walk down to the tram stop near to my place and catch that into work.

The company has BUPA health insurance anyway... and because I was on my way into work, most of the time, they consider travel to and from work under health insurance.

But I am going to see how I go over the next couple of days. I have another trip to the doctors tomorrow to see what the orthopedic consultant has to say

Certainly feels screwed up big time.

 

[Malifice]

Shit. Is this for real?

Do you want the horrible... horrible truth?










Its real. Incomprehensible, but real.

 

[Mokum]

I have something to say. Rare, but it does happen.

A few things have come up at a result of this thread - Maguire, Waite, Austin, Lyon.

Ross Lyon - I dont like the guy. Yes granted, great year with only 3 losses but something about him doesnt sit well with me. The Hudghton scenario, he said about Dawson who took his place who almost didnt get up because he was sick, that he would instead brought in Geary instead. He also said after the GF loss that anyone who doesnt want to pull their weight next year can leave... not geez we had a great year, well done on only losing 2 games we deserved that flag lets rinse and repeat that season effort and get ourselves that flag next year... nothing positive. Nothing. Some call it driven. Its not my kind of motivation. Hudghton is a positive guy. The way he held himself through GF week was amazing and spoke of his character. A polar opposite to Lyon. Some players dont respond well to this type of coaching. I sure as hell wouldnt.

Waite - He was originally a forward player. He was moved back because we were getting killed back there spread so thinly. We have lost Fevola. Waite is the x-factor to replace him up forward. Just before he injured himself he played on Riewoldt, kept him goalless I believe and had kicked 3 goals on him. He is an amazing player one-on-one. Return to forward line.

Austin - Will be a great player. The commentators comment on him. They notice he has something. The only negative ive noted is some unhappiness with umpire decisions which rattles him. Thats it. Hes only young but a bloody good defender. Great size, great mobility, can play tall or small, makes smart decisions, times his spoils perfectly (very Waite in this regard).

Macguire - See comments on Lyon. We dont need to take safe bets like we did with Johnson. We need to take a risk. He is a KPP who was bloody good. He didnt get a chance this year, hes been injured prior to this. Lyon became coach in 2007. According to Wikipedia -

--
Maguire made his return to the AFL in Round 1 of the 2007 season only to be further sidelined with stress fractures in his foot. He returned once again in the Saint's Round 14 loss against Collingwood and although he played out the remainder of the year it was clear that he was a shadow of his former self. At the end of the 2007 season it was revealed that after experiencing soreness during training he had once again suffered stress fractures in his foot, preventing him from participating in the majority of the Saint's pre-season.

After finally returning in Round 4, 2008, Maguire suffered another blow in Round 7 in a St Kilda vs Richmond game. Once again he injured his left foot, which effectively sidelined him until the end of the 2008 AFL season. Maguire had surgery to repair a fracture to the fourth metatarsal, one of the long bones that connects the middle of the foot to the base of the toes.

The St Kilda football manager, Matthew Drain, said that although Maguire most likely would not return in 2009 this may be the best chance of him getting everything right without the pressure of playing and may turn out to be the best thing for him in the long run.

Maguire spent most of the 2009 season playing for St Kilda Football Club's VFL affiliate the Sandringham Zebras.
--

Whats the feedback on his form this year for Sandringham? Barring a negative response to this I say take him. Harvey has just taken a step up and obviously has put in a good word. Lets take him.

Someone call Wayne Hughes and inform him of our decision

I disagree regarding Hudghton, I reckon for the teams sake he should have come out and declared he was 100% behind lyon and dawson and backed the young fella in, all the speculation regarding his selection and the way he carried on was part of the reason they got done i reckon,

 

[Dramoth]

Do you want the horrible... horrible truth?










Its real. Incomprehensible, but real.

Best read after consuming a load of really good drugs

 

[Kramer1]

I disagree regarding Hudghton, I reckon for the teams sake he should have come out and declared he was 100% behind lyon and dawson and backed the young fella in, all the speculation regarding his selection and the way he carried on was part of the reason they got done i reckon,

Ridiculous comment. Up until selection his sole aim would have been to put himself in the mix, and rightfully so. How exactly did he 'carry on'?