Message to OZ- IR is over

[Tuco]

Not in the slightest. I wouldn't want to see anything changed. What the Irish gain in the round ball is compensated with the Aussie's familiarity with the mark and the tackle. However, professionally conditioned athletes surely must feel a little embarrassed when they pin amateur sportsmen to the ground and puch them until spotted by officials. As McGeeney said, if you want to box toe-to-toe, just say it.

If that sounds like sour grapes, well I can't help change your perception. Just one thing though - I watch plenty of Aussie Rules. I never see that level of violence from the Aussies. IR is like a candy shop for them. Lets show how strong we are, and get away with it.

This is true. I'll tell you why that is. Players in Australia are very used to being stood up by an opponent. They bump chests. They wrestle a bit. They trash talk. But unless something truly despicable happens to a teammate it rarely explodes these days. Also in OZ we have fines for Melees which do help to reduce the push and shove. Unfortunately your lads are amateurs and won't cop fines.

The one thing I've noticed watching IR for the last few years, though, is how quickly the Irish lads tend inflame situations by opting to almost immediately throw roundhouses, and in some cases headbutts. They seem so desperate to show how tough they are, they forget there's a game on. And on the weekend they forgot for almost 40mins of football.

 

[D Mitchell]

I take it your no good at lip reading ? ..... perhaps O'Keefe punched himself ?

O'Keefe wasn't the only one with a bloodied nose. Selwood gave one with his shoulder or elbow. Why do you assume that it was a head butt ? Even if it was, perhaps the circumstances explained it. O'Keefe has been one of the most aggressive participants in the last two series, he was bound to cop something sooner or later.

 

[Tuco]

Me too. How can Coyler comment upon the so called head butt when nobody's seen it ? It wasn't shown, you've only Quartermain's commentary and I doubt he saw it either. It was clear that the Irish players stood up to the Australians and gave back what they got, if that's what you mean by unsavoury.

Ignoring for a moment that Quatermain actually saw the incident. O'Keefe told the umpire and his coach what happened. And after the game Sheedy told the world. Get over it.

 

[D Mitchell]

This is true. I'll tell you why that is. Players in Australia are very used to being stood up by an opponent. They bump chests. They wrestle a bit. They trash talk. But unless something truly despicable happens to a teammate it rarely explodes these days. Also in OZ we have fines for Melees which do help to reduce the push and shove. Unfortunately your lads are amateurs and won't cop fines.....

The first part of what you wrote is fantasy. Violence has diminished in AFL because of penalties. There are no penalties in International Rules that would worry an AFL player.

 

[Tuco]

O'Keefe wasn't the only one with a bloodied nose. Selwood gave one with his shoulder or elbow. Why do you assume that it was a head butt ? Even if it was, perhaps the circumstances explained it. O'Keefe has been one of the most aggressive participants in the last two series, he was bound to cop something sooner or later.

Oh I see. So he was "targetted" was he?

Gotta love the hypocrisy.

 

[Malibu#27]

O'Keefe wasn't the only one with a bloodied nose. Selwood gave one with his shoulder or elbow. Why do you assume that it was a head butt ?

He was at the other end of the ground to the play FFS. Could you read his lips ... it went something like "He f%^&*# headbutted me".

As for Selwood, if you watch Aussie Rules what Selwood did was fair .... it was IN the play and your guy ducked into it. Big difference to O'Keefe who was at the other end of the ground!!!

Even if it was, perhaps the circumstances explained it. O'Keefe has been one of the most aggressive participants in the last two series, he was bound to cop something sooner or later.

So now you concede it may have been a headbutt and say it was retalliation from the year before ...... so now you seem to be condoning revenge attacks ?

You have to understand the game is a hybrid game so the fact your players are brought up in a game with little physical contact is not our fault.

 

[D Mitchell]

Oh I see. So he was "targetted" was he?

Gotta love the hypocrisy.

Where did I say anything about being targetted ? If you go around looking for trouble, you'll eventually find it.

 

[D Mitchell]

As for Selwood, if you watch Aussie Rules what Selwood did was fair .... it was IN the play and your guy ducked into it. Big difference to O'Keefe who was at the other end of the ground!!!




So now you concede it may have been a headbutt and say it was retalliation from the year before ...... so now you seem to be condoning revenge attacks ?

...

International Rules forbid the shirtfront but even in Australian Rules, Selwood would be penalised, perhaps reported because the impact was high. Of course it could have been a headbutt, it could have been anything. I'm not condoning anything. None of us know what happened, I'm speculating that a reasonable explanation is that O'Keefe went looking for trouble and found it. I find that to be a more likely scenario than that O'Keefe was the victim of an attack.

 

[Father Jack]

This should be the end of it.
Tom Humphries at Croke Park
996 words
6 November 2006
Irish Times
1
English
(c) 2006, The Irish Times.
INTERNATIONAL RULES: In the corrupted idiom of modern sports, surely the most pernicious word is a recent and annoyingly sexist coinage. Handbags.
Sometime, maybe this morning, maybe next Sunday, some clown who never threw nor received a punch in his life will blowhard and dismiss yesterday's first-quarter violence in Croke Park as handbags.
When he's not looking hit him blindside to the head with an elbow as you go running past. Shout "handbags, only handbags" at him as his lights go out. Until handbags becomes a legal defence in assault cases, let's hear no more of them.
Sometime in the past the Compromise Rules experiment took a brave leap in nomenclature and became the International Rules series. Different name, same flawed product. No handbags. Just assaults. "Hard as it gets", as the slogan says.
From the Punch 'n' Judy of 1978 to the bloodbath in Cork in 1984 it's been that way. From the challenge perpetrated by an Aussie goalie in Croker that same year which almost removed Barney Rock's head, to the blow from behind which split Kevin Fagan from ear to chin in Perth in 1990 it's been the same. From the clotheslining of Phillip Jordan last year and on to the worrying, unconscious form of Graham Geraghty on the Croker grass yesterday this has been an experiment which has teetered on the verge of disaster or tragedy for far too long.
Somewhere beneath the highlights reel of violent incidents there is undoubtedly a decent game struggling to get out and an audience willing to watch it. So what? They sold season tickets for the Christians versus the lions games too.
Dress it up any which way, but the current experiment depends on blending two different sporting cultures - one professional, one amateur - for the benefit of an elite minority in either game. Pathetically we ask the Australians every time we see them if they don't think that our boys aren't fit "for amateur players", and condescendingly they say, why yes, of course, they are.
The bald truth is that by twisting the dial on the physicality metre the Australians can win a series just about any time they want. We crave the validation of an international outlet, so we'll put up with being cuffed, shirtfronted and clotheslined every couple of years if needs be. Until somebody gets seriously hurt.
The game carries a virus of violence which seems always to have the Irish as victims. We have seen men as tough as Mick Lyons carried off the field after assaults masquerading as tackles.
The latest instalment of this grotesque parody of two fine sports should be the last, but it won't. They debuted a new press conference room in Croke Park yesterday, and unless Steve Staunton or somebody performs hara-kiri in there sometime the opening night's production will never be surpassed for drama.
Kevin Sheedy, the Australian manager and a smooth operator at this level, came in after the outraged Irish contingent had blown through. Sheedy attempted to take a little of the sizzle out of the row by blithely suggesting Seán Boylan was one of those managers who "smiles when he wins and gets grumpy when he loses".
Of course he isn't. Boylan is one of the most gracious gentlemen ever to have trod this earth. He is also responsible for sending out some of the toughest teams ever to play Gaelic football. When, as they say on the terraces at Millwall, it "all went off" yesterday, Seán went to Kevin Sheedy and said, "That's it Kevin. That's the end of it."
Boylan took his team off the field at the end of the first quarter and he was happy to leave them there. He wanted to scrap it there and then. The players said they wanted to go back out.
Afterwards, in the new press room, Boylan said things like: "I've never seen a more biased umpire in my life than I saw out there today . . . targeted in such a way as to hurt . . . don't tell me it's sour grapes . . . to say we started this is pure and utter bull******** . . . the biggest problem was restraining our players . . ."
That should be enough. That should be the epitaph.
In the end it doesn't matter if Graham Geraghty was legitimately tackled or if he was dangerously assaulted. The salient facts are that he was explicitly targeted before the game and before the throw-in, and afterwards, as he lay in hospital, the Australian and Irish contingents expressed irreconcilable perspectives on the incident.
While the Irish were outraged, Jim Stynes was able to stand in the Australian dressingroom and smile: "Look we didn't go out to get Geraghty or anything. That was a tackle, a fair tackle.
"You all know Geraghty, what he is like. He put one of our guys out after he was beaten to the ball. I don't need to tell you how to suck eggs, read it how you like. It was a fair tackle. He just got knocked out."
Yesterday should have been the end of it but it won't be. You're in the crowd looking at a man standing on the precipice of a high building and some inexplicable part of you wants to see him jump. You go to these games and the darkest, guiltiest part of your heart wants to see the violence.
The desire for the series is partially born from that. An audience in search of spectacle. A few dozen players in search of trips. Complementary needs, but not enough.
We have learned lots from flirting with the Aussies over the past few decades. We have learned finally, though, that we have no future as an item. Time to say goodbye. Sorry guys, it's not us, it's you.

The GAA and the AFL have moved so far apart that they can't even relate to each other anymore. I view the headbutt/knee in the back thing as far worse than a bit of argy-bargy, but that doesn't even rate a mention in the Irish articles i have read. If Danyle Pearce can so easily take out their 'tough man', then the game has no future as it stands.

 

[peternorth]

...as for the 'headbutt' (sing) and the 'knee-drop' (sing), yes, that's wrong. But when you dance with the devil it brings out the worst in you.

if i ever commit homicide ill remember that excuse.

 

[Father Jack]

another article:

Rules future bleak after horror show
By John Campbell
374 words
6 November 2006
Belfast Telegraph
English
(c)2006 Independent News & Media (Northern Ireland). All Rights Reserved.
The International Rules series as we know it may well have reached the end of the road following the mayhem that ensued during the first quarter of yesterday's Second Test between Ireland and Australia in front of 82,127 fans at Croke Park yesterday.
They had travelled there in the expectation of seeing international sport at its best.
What was ultimately delivered was nothing less than a horror show that contravened just about every element of sportsmanship.
Advance declarations of vengeful intent were translated into hasty action and with just 10 minutes gone the whole future of relationships between Ireland and their Antipodoean brethren were in freefall.
In 23 years of managing successive Meath sides - and, let it be said, all of which were noted for their uncompromising, hard nosed stance - Sean Boylan, boss of this Irish team has never been more upset.
Nor indeed has his skipper Kieran McGeeney, a battle hardened campaigner renowned for his steely approach and iron resolve.
But even this duo were left stunned and shocked following the early events in a match that had lost its allure before it was quarter way through.
GAA president Nickey Brennan afterwards described the naked thuggery as "unacceptable" and inferred that "there is a due process to be followed."
But the full house at Croke Park and the hundreds of thousands watching on television have their minds firmly made up today on just what process should ensue.
The predicted targeting of Graham Geraghty came to pass to such an extent that he was detained overnight in the Mater Hospital, four other Irish players were pinpointed for assault and battery and by the third quarter the Irish were trying to play from memory such were the mortal blows that had been inflicted on their morale and psyche.
Given what took place, the outcome was little more than academic. Australia clinched the series on a score aggregate of 109-79 to retain the Cormac McAnallen Cup because of their superior athleticism, surprisingly high ball handling skills and unerring finishing.
But yesterday Ireland were not the only losers - sport as we know it was the chief casualty on a day of shame.

 

[Malibu#27]

International Rules forbid the shirtfront but even in Australian Rules, Selwood would be penalised, perhaps reported because the impact was high. Of course it could have been a headbutt, it could have been anything. I'm not condoning anything. None of us know what happened, I'm speculating that a reasonable explanation is that O'Keefe went looking for trouble and found it. I find that to be a more likely scenario than that O'Keefe was the victim of an attack.

It was hardly a shirtfront.

Speculate all you like - because OKeefe ends up with a ********ed nose at the opposite end of the ground to the play ... someone from IReland was responsible.

And we havent even started on the knees to the heads and kidneys.

I find it amazimg that there is a nation that actually whinges more than the poms.
So far all you seem to have a complaint about is a heavy bump from Selwood, and the fact that OKeefe punched himself in the face.

 

[Blues_Man]

Where did I say anything about being targetted ? If you go around looking for trouble, you'll eventually find it.

Nail Hammer Head ..the irish went looking for trouble in the first quarter and found it in bucketloads ...shame they didn't know how to handle it when they found it though ....The Aussies kicked their arses when they wanted to fight ..and then kicked their arses again when they wanted to play football .

You and the Irish coaching staff are a bunch of sore losers

 

[SunKing]

Sore losers of course,no doubt.

Tough professional footballers against far less fit amateurs seems an uneven contest but a few years back the irish would run as ragged. It's only one win and the irish were off their game. 80,000 people say it will continue and the irish will win a series and be happy. SOO will not happen so forget about it. Possibly once every four years but clubs don't want players injured in something like SOO.

As for the irish being weak,send the toughest aussie into an irish bar in northern ireland singing god save the queen and see how soft they are.

 

[D Mitchell]

..the irish went looking for trouble in the first quarter and found it in bucketloads .......

Painting the Irish the aggressors is laughable. Even Quartermain said that the Irish were responding to Australian aggression.

 

[Blues_Man]

Painting the Irish the aggressors is laughable. Even Quartermain said that the Irish were responding to Australian aggression.

Kneeing a player in the back in the opening minutes is asking for trouble ..and your lot found that out ....A Tip for you Irish if you know you are no match physically for an opponent then it's best of you don't start any thuggery

 

[Bellablaise]

...as for the 'headbutt' (sing) and the 'knee-drop' (sing), yes, that's wrong. But when you dance with the devil it brings out the worst in you.

Oh right, so even your players acting like thugs and starting many of the incidents you then bitch and moan about is our fault.

Piss off mate, you are unbelievable.

 

[Eagle87]

It was hardly a shirtfront.

Speculate all you like - because OKeefe ends up with a ********ed nose at the opposite end of the ground to the play ... someone from IReland was responsible.

And we havent even started on the knees to the heads and kidneys.

I find it amazimg that there is a nation that actually whinges more than the poms.
So far all you seem to have a complaint about is a heavy bump from Selwood, and the fact that OKeefe punched himself in the face.

I have agreed with all your posts in this thread but being amazed by Irish whinging suggests you lack a proper view of Irish history.

We have this romantic notion of the "loveable Irish rogue", what we see in this series is more akin to the true colours of the Irish. They hit late, they hit from behind, they hit off the ball and then complain because otherwise legitimate tackles/bumps lingered a half-second too long or hit a couple of centimetres high (and even then only when the guy ducked into it).

The Irish have a couple of basic principles - the rules do not apply to them (because they are poor and downtrodden or in this case "amatuers") but god will they ensure the whole world knows that the rules DO apply to their adversaries. At their core the Irish have a victim mentality - it causes them to generally be unsuccessful at anything except drinking and bull********ting. ..

 

[Grimreepah]

I believe that both sides have shown aggression towards the opposition. But one of the differences is that when the Irishmen are on the end of a bump or heavy contact they always seem to stay down writhing in pain.

 

[krisholio14]

its about time this whole joke of a series was scrapped.

you take two countries who have codes of football that is played nowhere else to any real standard outside of the countries in question, then somehow combine the two to make a sport NOBODY plays ANYWHERE, except for these two games a year. how does that make sense?

i mean the only highlights in these games are the biffo on the ground, the mudslinging off it, and dogs invading the pitch. all it is is an excuse for a lot of aussie blokes to go overseas on an extended piss up and kick a few heads.

time to bring back SOO. i want rep footy with a sherrin, an oval and four goalposts at each end, not a round ball, a square pitch and goalposts with a net over them.

 

[OldLion]

The ongoing outrage is entirely predictable - you could have written the script before EVERY series. The sanctity of the 'sacred game', the rush to predictable and 'colourful' demonising .. the continued use of the word barbarian has strong historic and racist echoes in Australian ( I guess the word thug fits nicely in headlines ), the disconbobulations and frustrations that are caused by both teams playing a game they have never played before .. and that includes umpires and spectators ( how crazy is that ? ), a strong sense of outrage that is NOT an overt part of Australian culture ( unfortunately we're far too 'relaxed and comfortable' ) and so comes over as hysterical jibberish and whinging, the feeling that Australia is unfairly handicapped by having to compromise way too much ( imagine a cricket game with a different shaped ball ) and the whole end-of -season hoopla / footy trip / junket with a swag of manchildren, plenty of $$ and blokey hijinx ... what does anyone expect ?

The only benefits are the exposure of an obvious talent pool in young Irish players, the reinforcement that foot speed is a major factor in AFL strategy and recruitment .. and the fact that 80,000 Irish turn up, presumably knowing all of the above.

WHAT DO THEY EXPECT ?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

The Irish can give it out but cant take it when the tables are turned.Forget about the wrestling at the start but it was the Irish who set the tone with the knee in the back.A red rag to a bull senerio and they have the cheek to blame it on the aussies.
I know a fair few Irish here in oz and they dont come across as whingers at all.
Perhaps thats where the problem lies.
Stay in ireland you become soft[No wonder the poms own you]
Come to Oz and we will toughen them up.

 

[Tuco]

The GAA and the AFL have moved so far apart that they can't even relate to each other anymore. I view the headbutt/knee in the back thing as far worse than a bit of argy-bargy, but that doesn't even rate a mention in the Irish articles i have read. If Danyle Pearce can so easily take out their 'tough man', then the game has no future as it stands.

Unfortunately the old-schoolers and traditionalists who never wanted to have anything to do with the concept are being entrusted with its future.

The idea that Sean Boylan actually attempted to call off the match at qtr time just shows how out of depth the man really was in this series. Irish lads in the junior competitions have taken to IR really well. Those lucky enough to play in the series have enjoyed it (although some of the Irish have only been vocal about their enjoyment when they were winning). And for all the angst, many Irish fans actually enjoy the tackling and physicality of the IR games as an alternative to their domestic sport. More than 110,000 spectators turned up to watch the series and paid for the privilege.

If the GAA decide to give up on the exposure and revenue that the IR series offers, and go back to promoting International Gaelic games played against pub teams and universities in North America and Scotland attended by four men and a dog as their preferred option, good luck to them.

 

[Pessimistic]

The Irish can give it out but cant take it when the tables are turned.Forget about the wrestling at the start but it was the Irish who set the tone with the knee in the back.A red rag to a bull senerio and they have the cheek to blame it on the aussies.
I know a fair few Irish here in oz and they dont come across as whingers at all.
Perhaps thats where the problem lies.
Stay in ireland you become soft[No wonder the poms own you]
Come to Oz and we will toughen them up.

Oh really ? they have queen elizabeth and we have president howard ?

 

[Pessimistic]

I have agreed with all your posts in this thread but being amazed by Irish whinging suggests you lack a proper view of Irish history.

We have this romantic notion of the "loveable Irish rogue", what we see in this series is more akin to the true colours of the Irish. They hit late, they hit from behind, they hit off the ball and then complain because otherwise legitimate tackles/bumps lingered a half-second too long or hit a couple of centimetres high (and even then only when the guy ducked into it).

The Irish have a couple of basic principles - the rules do not apply to them (because they are poor and downtrodden or in this case "amatuers") but god will they ensure the whole world knows that the rules DO apply to their adversaries. At their core the Irish have a victim mentality - it causes them to generally be unsuccessful at anything except drinking and bull********ting. ..

Thet also describes the sydney swans nicely.