List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)

[Tom14]

Max Laughton (who I rate) wrote a good piece on FA compo yesterday trying to put together an explanation of how it works (as much as is known about it, at least).

The relevant bit is:

HOW DOES THE AFL FREE AGENCY COMPENSATION SYSTEM WORK?

The compensation system is secretive - in an attempt to stop clubs from manipulating it - and possibly as much art as it is science.

Some details were revealed in an excellent piece by Nine’s Jake Niall in early 2018, showing how players 25 and older were ranked based on their annual salary - with those rankings adjusted for age - and compensation being dependent on those rankings.

The length of contract would act as a tie-breaker - for example, a 25-year-old signing a four-year $2 million deal ranks higher than a 25-year-old signing a two-year $1 million deal, but not one signing a two-year $1.2 million deal.

But the system seems to have changed since then, with the Herald Sun last week reporting players are now compared to those in their age bracket.

An AFL memo sent to clubs, relayed in the story, said the compensation system tries to “reflect the relative values of various players to one another”, rather than “fully compensate a club for the loss of a player”.

Compensation is determined by which pay ‘band’ the player falls in.

To receive a first-round pick, a free agent must sign a deal that places them in the top five per cent of the rankings.

This is where the complexity comes in for moves like Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

’s (Adelaide to St Kilda) and Joe Daniher’s (Essendon to Brisbane). Age is also a factor, but if the new teams aren’t paying enough, then the old teams won’t get the pick they’re dreaming of.

The bands are as follows:

- Top five per cent = first-round pick

- Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick

- Top 30 per cent = second-round pick

- Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick

- Top 70 per cent = third-round pick

- Below that = no pick

After the formula gives the suggested compensation, an expert AFL committee can then recommend a change if there is a “materially anomalous” result.

So for Joe to get Essendon a first round pick, his contract would have to be in the top 5 percent of contracts of those in his age bracket (assume it would be calendar year but there's no confirmation it is).

Full piece is here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/538e998849aa96d921d7da512ff8793e

 

[Davemonkey]

I find it hard to believe that we would be offering Joe enough $$$ and contract length to trigger band 1 compensation, surely there are incentives in his contract eg. games played/B&F finish that will earn him extra money, IIRC it has been pointed out that incentives/triggers are not taken into account when assessing compensation by the AFL.

This is the reason the AFL's secret sauce is secret. It let's them manipulate the formula to suit their ends, and one of those ends is now helping Essendon out of the hole they dug themselves into (like we got helped out of the hole we dug ourselves into).

Although to be fair Essendon tends to get out of a hole and then start digging again.

 

[Macca225]

Hopefully the deal is heavily front ended so there's plenty of room left in the cap for Rayner, McCluggage, Bailey and Starc

 

[jackess]

Hopefully the deal is heavily front ended so there's plenty of room left in the cap for Rayner and McCluggage

I'd be more worried about Rayner playing well enough to deserve a decent sized contract.

 

[Macca225]

I'd be more worried about Rayner playing well enough to deserve a decent sized contract.

Hopefully he has a breakout year to deserve one

 

[chopperduck]

I don't mind the AFL keeping details of compo secret TBH. Clubs absolutely would exploit it. Deciding picks based on pay brackets seems like a good base idea. I would say maybe they should be comparing the contracts compared to the pay of players on the list of the club they are going to though. Ie, if a player moves as a FA and is top 3 paid players at that club then it should be a high compo pick. But also I think they should ditch some of the compo brackets. Just make it end of rounds 1,2 and 3.

AFL could then look at things like BnF placings, Browlow votes, AA selection etc before rubber stamping final compo. There are always a few players that might chase a flag and take less money, so you do need a manual review of it. No automated system will fit right, but you can get a decent frame work to work with.

 

[chopperduck]

People need to stop worrying about having cap space for young players. Noble has talked about this kind of thing, and the club plans for it. It is also part of the process in getting them locked in earlier.

 

[Macca225]

People need to stop worrying about having cap space for young players. Noble has talked about this kind of thing, and the club plans for it. It is also part of the process in getting them locked in earlier.

I'm sure king Noble is all over it... But if we are triggering band 1 I hope it's that we are paying most of the money upfront so it won't cause issues in the 4th and 5th years of his contract.

 

[60sbomber]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Don’t look now guys, but the goalposts have moved again.

 

[jackess]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

The issue we had was with paying more than we were comfortable in paying just to please Essendon.

If the amount we feel he is worth is enough to trigger band 1 then we have no issue with it.

It's not hard to understand. We have faith in people running our club. They're no dodos at the Lions

 

[abcde12345]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

Literally no-one was saying this. Every single person on here was saying that we back our team in to pay him what we deem worth, and not to throw extra money at him just to trigger higher compensation.

I would be amazed if anyone has changed that tune. I certainly haven't.

Irrespective of all this, the AFL was always going to give you Band 1 IMO. Didn't matter what we paid Joe. When nothing is formally publicised about salaries nor the methodology, this is the easiest and least controversial method for the AFL to assist certain "strategically important" clubs.

 

[Sherrinator]

Reality is our team is good enough to win the flag with the 2 foils we have - not sure that Joe is the tipping point. Had we turned up to the Geelong game with our best defence and some midfield fortitude, we could have won the whole thing.

 

[Milux]

Maybe we have upped our offer to trigger band 1. On the premise essendon take pick 17 or 18 and witherdon for one ............



........ Zach Merritt.

 

[Milux]

Reality is our team is good enough to win the flag with the 2 foils we have - not sure that Joe is the tipping point. Had we turned up to the Geelong game with our best defence and some midfield fortitude, we could have won the whole thing.

Problem being Stefan is most likely going to be traded/delisted. So our game style will either need to change (without getting daniher) or stay the same (with getting daniher).

 

[Brett C]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

Serious question if you were Essendon List manager what would your offer be to Daniher? Let's see how much you equivocate with your answer.

You've flip flopped more than an Italian soccer player

 

[irel]

Serious question if you were Essendon List manager what would your offer be to Daniher? Let's see how much you equivocate with your answer.

You've flip flopped more than an Italian soccer player

Bit rough on the Italian Soccer player there Brett, comparing him to Essendon people.

 

[spotthedog1]

I'll put my hand up as having said that I did not think our offer would be sufficient to trigger Band 1.

I don't think there's any likelihood that we've increased our offer to placate Essendon though. I consider it far, far more likely that the AFL have tinkered with things and are now strategically leaking that they'll give the Dons Band 1. Far more in line with their modus operandi.

I don't love it. The AFL keep giving handouts to Essendon simply due to them being a big Melbourne club and having influence over the those in charge. It doesn't sit well with me. I'm surprised Andy McGrath hasn't moved on yet either - I can't imagine how it feels to know that your job is the result of your employer's cheating. It's bizarre.

Anyway, que sera sera. If the AFL want to give the Dons another freebie in a way that makes things slightly simpler for us, then so be it.

 

[chopperduck]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

I think you will find the talk of maybe getting band 1 isn't because we are paying any extra, in fact Noble was asked if paying extra to get band 1 and avoid a trade was a strategy the club would entertain to which the answer was no.

It is more so the point that it looks like the AFL have moved the goal posts in what will trigger band 1. So no, all your arguments you've made here the last week are still as in valid as they were initially.

 

[chopperduck]

Problem being Stefan is most likely going to be traded/delisted. So our game style will either need to change (without getting daniher) or stay the same (with getting daniher).

I don't think it is likely he leaves. We still very much want him, we just need to make sure what the situation with list spots / salary cap is. He will probably be a back up ruck next year and not in the 22. Very handy ruck depth, but maybe too expensive depending what happens.

That isn't to say another club doesn't come along and try pinch him though. It is possible he leaves, but I think our preference is to keep him in our pocket.

 

[Milux]

I don't think it is likely he leaves. We still very much want him, we just need to make sure what the situation with list spots / salary cap is. He will probably be a back up ruck next year and not in the 22. Very handy ruck depth, but maybe too expensive depending what happens.

That isn't to say another club doesn't come along and try pinch him though. It is possible he leaves, but I think our preference is to keep him in our pocket.

I think its likely he won't be on our list next season. You pritty much added what I said. There is a chance he will stay. I like him. Been amazing. But if he were to seek/offered opportunities elsewhere i wouldn't be too upset and probably be happy for him.

 

[60sbomber]

Serious question if you were Essendon List manager what would your offer be to Daniher? Let's see how much you equivocate with your answer.

You've flip flopped more than an Italian soccer player

Done it already. See post #537 18Oct20 on p22 of this thread.
No equivocating. No flip flopping. I've been saying the same things for about 2 wks ie Brisbane should do it the easy way, make an offer that gets band 1 either by converting incentive $ to base $, or offering a shorter term at a higher rate with later yrs at a lower rate with easy triggers. If not, Essendon should match and risk the consequences. I'm very sure there's been no flopping about.

 

[dlanod]

Serious question if you were Essendon List manager what would your offer be to Daniher? Let's see how much you equivocate with your answer.

You've flip flopped more than an Italian soccer player

His offer would be redrafting him with Pick 6, apparently.

 

[Daniels Riches]

Amusing lot you are.
When it looks like Essendon might match - majority here scoff at paying enough for band 1 "Daniher is a big risk....not worth it....don't care if we don't get him....let him go to the draft" blah blah.
After a few reports that he is getting enough for band 1, Essendon won't match, and he will come for free - it becomes "holy sh!t, how good is he?"

It always made sense to do it the easy way. Pay him enough for Band1 and get him free. Why you people couldn't see it I don't know.
Let's hope it works out that way. Still only news reports.

For the last time...Stay of the Lions board you peanut! You are really embarrassing yourself. No one hear wants to hear your ever changing opinions. Not. Interested.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[dlanod]

Maybe we have upped our offer to trigger band 1. On the premise essendon take pick 17 or 18 and witherdon for one ............



........ Zach Merritt.

Given the noise coming out of the club I don't think we've upped our offer.

This noise sounds like it's coming out of the AFL to prime the bed for the first round pick as a pity **** for a screwed club.