My 2013 round 1 team

[Footypie32]

Agree just seems like a good honest nothing player for mine.
No exceptional weapons.

Weapons aren't all they're cracked up to be. Look at Essendon.

 

[fabs33]

I know it's popular around here to predict that Crouch will spend more time in lime green than red, blue & gold.. but I think Johncock will be our specialist super-sub this year, with Crouch being part of the starting 21 most weeks. Johncock is able to play at either end of the ground and has the experience to come in and make an impact straight away. He's the perfect sub, as far as I'm concerned.

I think Crouch might get the vest a few times throughout the season but only to give him a bit of rest.

 

[fabs33]

Bit like Kane Johnston ....but look how he turned out

To be honest I can't remember Kane all that well.

 

[DangerSloane]

I think he could definitely steal a spot by years end. Someone like Smith, Martin, Wright, Jaensch or Henderson. Would be very tough to do though.

UM NO! Maybe the other 3...if he improves immensely over the year, but no way is he going to be ahead of Smith or Wright this season.

 

[Mismatched]

Close I reckon.

Callinan in for Riley and you've just picked our Round 1 team.

Certainly appears I was wrong about Riley. Still not sure we can run with both Johncock and Callinan in the same side, its one or the other IMO, unless Johncock is reinstated in the defensive 50 which Sando appears to have ruled out.

 

[WeeBlake]

Jeez we're fickle. People already writing Otten off despite him being one of our best last September.

 

[Mismatched]

Jeez we're fickle. People already writing Otten off despite him being one of our best last September.

He was one of our best in 1 match in September, yet despite a good preseason and plenty of opportunities he's been back to the slow, fumbly and lacking intensity Andy Otten that we've see far too much of the past 2 years.

Besides, I think you're being a little touchy, no ones writing him off, just saying that he needs to reestablish himself as a best 22 player or he may be in the firing line come season end.

 

[WeeBlake]

He was one of our best in 1 match in September, yet despite a good preseason and plenty of opportunities he's been back to the slow, fumbly and lacking intensity Andy Otten that we've see far too much of the past 2 years.

Besides, I think you're being a little touchy, no ones writing him off, just saying that he needs to reestablish himself as a best 22 player or he may be in the firing line come season end.

Fair enough.

I don't mind him being, or at least looking, slow, because he usually is composed and makes good decisions.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Certainly appears I was wrong about Riley. Still not sure we can run with both Johncock and Callinan in the same side, its one or the other IMO, unless Johncock is reinstated in the defensive 50 which Sando appears to have ruled out.

That's probably a fair point. Not in the same 21 perhaps.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I fear you are correct Carl but can we afford to pump another 20+ games into Johncock and Callinan in 2013? If we don't win the flag (possible but not probable) then we will be weaker at the end of the year than the start. We were the most conservative club in the AFL last season when it came to playing kids (18 and 19 year olds). Would we have finished any lower if we had played Dogga, Stiffy, Nutta etc less and Kerridge, Lyons and Riley more?

An excellent question, AFGM.

I'm sure you've subscribed to my premiership team / squad thread (which has earned rave reviews... my PM box is nearly full) and I pointed out how disappointed I was that in 2012 we spread so many of our "21st and 22nd picked" games over such a large spread of players last season. I would much prefer we targeted a couple of youngsters that we thought had the goods and invested more heavily in them. Rather than trying to keep the whole squad happy. Will watch with interest this season.

As for Sando and his ways, I've said a number of times that the jury is still out. On one hand I was delighted to see the number of games for older players Knights, Symes and Tambling fall through the floor last season. A top four season. Especially given the number of games those three played the year before, in a year that we finished at the arse end of the table.

On the other, I'm concerned that a few players have stagnated. What is certain (and should have been learned from the previous regime) is that keeping the likes of Jaensch, Riley, Martin, Petrenko... kicking around the SANFL for years on end and hoping that they end up good players when the likes of Shirley and Doughty move on is misguided and doesn't work. If players play in the SANFL too long, they become SANFL players.

Lyons and Kerridge are two worth mentioning here. If we have designs on them becoming quality AFL players, then they must play significant games this year. If they don't, then maybe in a year or two they'll be bit-part fringe players for us like Jaensch and co are now. But no better.

If Crouch is wearing the green singlet against Essendon then I will be very disappointed.

Not too fussed if Crouch gets the Andrew Gaff treatment to be honest. A bunch of games as the sub beats playing for West.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

By good luck and/or good management we now have a core of elite/near elite players in their early 20's but our talent is still below several other teams. Whilst we can expect further improvement from our 50 - 100 game players, we need to develop at least another 3 or 4 players to remain contenders over the next three years.

Thanks to S. Trigg and his Band of Merry Men we have not only "lost" our highest paid player for zip, we have also failed to use the additional $850K+ a year to improve our squad this year AND we have lost two round one and two round two draft picks. We must do everything in our power to "find" some new players and our only choice is to play our promising kids. That doesn't mean sacking everyone over 25 but it does mean selecting a younger player who may be marginally less effective over the next 20 games.

Playing Callinan or Johncock but not both, to leave a spot for Kerridge/Lyons/Riley. Playing Brown instead of Tambling or Jaensch (NaBA) and playing Crouch whenever he is fit.

It would be no big deal if Crouch was wearing the green singlet against Essendon but if we ignore the younger players who have been very good in the SANFL and keep playing vanila players over 25 then we will regret it. Come on Sando, make a statement in Round 1!

Finally if CEY, Grigg, Atkins or Laird start to dominate in the SANFL then let's try "rotating" some of our older players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

^^
Agree 100%

It had to happen eventually

 

[AFC979810]

He was one of our best in 1 match in September, yet despite a good preseason and plenty of opportunities he's been back to the slow, fumbly and lacking intensity Andy Otten that we've see far too much of the past 2 years.

Besides, I think you're being a little touchy, no ones writing him off, just saying that he needs to reestablish himself as a best 22 player or he may be in the firing line come season end.

WeeBlake

You both need to go back and watch the Prelim final. In no way was Andy Otten even in our top 15 players that day. All of his possessions came uncontested - he was beaten by his man several times in marking contests and the one time he played on from a mark it was inside the defensive 50 and he almost turned it over. He did very little defensively.

Admittedly - it would have been very hard to come in and perform in a high intensity prelim after only playing one AFL game (in July) since April. He was okay in the prelim.

With regards to writing him off - I think its a completely fair assessment to make. Since he did his knee in 2009 - he has played only 21 games across 3 seasons (I understand 2010 was a complete write off). Those 21 games were very unimpressive to me and he looked slow, uncertain and unsure. This has continued into this preseason when he should be fit and firing.

Add this to fact that he is behind Rutten/Talia/Shaw/L Thompson/Hendo for a key position in the backline - he might not get many chances this year if they stay healthy. (Hendo is a bit of a stretch as a 3rd tall option - however he was extremely good in the prelim last year when Hawthorn got a run on in the 3rd quarter and Sando dropped him back loose).

I am not saying that he has zero chance of proving me wrong - just that at this stage of the year - the combination of his form and the 5 other options ahead of him will make it hard for him to play enough games to make sure he has a spot on our list in 2014.

 

[AFC979810]

Playing Callinan or Johncock but not both, to leave a spot for Kerridge/Lyons/Riley. Playing Brown instead of Tambling or Jaensch (NaBA) and playing Crouch whenever he is fit.
.

Thought your post was quality.

The one thing I think is missing with yours and Spacklers post is the issue of team balance and the understanding that you cannot just drop quality players who perform a very specific role for young and upcoming players who play other positions.

In our forward line we have a lack of quality crumbers. On our list I think that only Callinan and Stiffy can perform that role of a traditional small forward. Petrenko is a different player whose function and role is to apply defensive pressure inside 50 and keep the ball in. Porps will be playing the majority of his time through the middle. This leaves us with those two. The issue is that if you drop one of them - it makes our team considerably weaker as we are replacing an established crumber with a midfielder.

Spackler also brings up playing Doughty last year (and Shirley in the past) at the expense of youngsters. To me its an incredibly frustrating thought process that permeates big footy. The 'whipping boys' who perform a specific role (Dogga played on the oppositions best small forward all last year and Shirley was really our only quality tagger on our list) cannot just be replaced with rookies without it having a huge affect on the rest of the side. Replacing Dogga with a player like Jaensch or Martin last year and we would have been a much worse side defensively and lost stability and experience in the backline.

Also - this year we need to be playing our best side and trying to win it all. If that means playing Callinan for 22 games then so be it. Happy to never find out if Martin/Riley/Jaensch et al can make it as AFL players if we have a flag in 2013.

 

[AFC979810]

Certainly appears I was wrong about Riley. Still not sure we can run with both Johncock and Callinan in the same side, its one or the other IMO, unless Johncock is reinstated in the defensive 50 which Sando appears to have ruled out.

Why not?

We did last year without any problems. Callinan will be a permanent small forward this year and Stiffy will become a bit of jack of all trades.

Johncock looks fitter than I have seen him over the past 4 preseasons. Maybe the combination of our success last year and the understanding that his career is in the twilight motivated him a big 2013. Really wouldn't mind him playing a bit of a Byron Pickett role from Port in 2004.

 

[DangerSloane]

Why not?

We did last year without any problems. Callinan will be a permanent small forward this year and Stiffy will become a bit of jack of all trades.

Johncock looks fitter than I have seen him over the past 4 preseasons. Maybe the combination of our success last year and the understanding that his career is in the twilight motivated him a big 2013. Really wouldn't mind him playing a bit of a Byron Pickett role from Port in 2004.

Human Cannonball at the freak show?

 

[Vader]

Johncock looks fitter than I have seen him over the past 4 preseasons. Maybe the combination of our success last year and the understanding that his career is in the twilight motivated him a big 2013. Really wouldn't mind him playing a bit of a Byron Pickett role from Port in 2004.

I suspect it was the fact that he spent so much of last year in the SANFL or Lime Green jacket, together with being booted from defence to the forward line, gave him a massive wake up call. It was either get fit in the hope of maintaining his position, or sit back and watch the kids go sailing past him.

Johncock is probably the only senior player under any real pressure to maintain his position in the side. Forget about Callinan, or other whipping boy favourites like Douglas - those guys will play 22 games this year if they stay fit. Stiffy is the only senior player at serious risk of being dropped. Martin appears to be a ready made replacement, just waiting for his opportunity to arrive.

 

[AFC979810]

I suspect it was the fact that he spent so much of last year in the SANFL or Lime Green jacket, together with being booted from defence to the forward line, gave him a massive wake up call. It was either get fit in the hope of maintaining his position, or sit back and watch the kids go sailing past him.

Johncock is probably the only senior player under any real pressure to maintain his position in the side. Forget about Callinan, or other whipping boy favourites like Douglas - those guys will play 22 games this year if they stay fit. Stiffy is the only senior player at serious risk of being dropped. Martin appears to be a ready made replacement, just waiting for his opportunity to arrive.

Agree with your first comments re: Johncock.

Personally I feel Callinan will be under more pressure come mid-season. Both are firmly entrenched in our best 22 at this stage- however I think Callinan will find it tough to repeat his effort of 39 goals next year. For me he had one game where he could have been the difference (Sydney in rd 4) and was absolutely terrible in all 3 finals. His stats were inflated against the lower end teams last year (Melb/Bris/GWS/GC X2). Many will shoot this down because they hate Tippett - but I think that without two genuine tall forwards inside 50 his opportunities will dry up.

Hope he can prove me wrong and be a key contributor to our finals push and he will definitely get the chance being in our side rd 1.

 

[Slippery Pete]

^^
Agree 100%

It had to happen eventually

We gave up the Bock pick to get Tambling. So you could argue playing Tambling is like playing a youngster......technically.....

I didn't get much sleep last night.

 

[Elite Crow]

We gave up the Bock pick to get Tambling. So you could argue playing Tambling is like playing a youngster......technically.....

I didn't get much sleep last night.

You bastard, I was having a good day

 

[skoobydoo]

By good luck and/or good management we now have a core of elite/near elite players in their early 20's but our talent is still below several other teams. Whilst we can expect further improvement from our 50 - 100 game players, we need to develop at least another 3 or 4 players to remain contenders over the next three years.

Thanks to S. Trigg and his Band of Merry Men we have not only "lost" our highest paid player for zip, we have also failed to use the additional $850K+ a year to improve our squad this year AND we have lost two round one and two round two draft picks. We must do everything in our power to "find" some new players and our only choice is to play our promising kids. That doesn't mean sacking everyone over 25 but it does mean selecting a younger player who may be marginally less effective over the next 20 games.

Yep. I keep telling myself to look further than a glass which appears half empty. There has been nobody in the preseason that has really excited me. Sure Tex can take his game to another level if he gets solid big body support down forward. Jenkins will develop and provide some excitement if he is allowed to use the open space and big man run of his game. Danger will probably do superhuman things where he will try to carry and lift the team. Crouch needs to be developed as quickly as possible while balancing the risks of premature physical damage. Other than that it seems to be business as usual with a good squad of average level talent footballers for 2013. Not that there is anything wrong with that......it helped us before when we won premierships last century. OK I know we had some 'big' stars back then, and maybe the stars we now have in the squad can do a similar job. I hope so because while the cupboard is not exactly bare it is not causing me to salivate. And those lost future draft picks will really hurt us. Which is why and where we sorely need to develop a handful of key players as you suggest AFGM.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Re Otten, key issue is that he has lost his movement and strength to hold his position in a contest

Otten was serviceable in the Prelim however the fact remains that he only got a call up because of injuries and for me one innings does not make a summer

In terms of Otten's pre-season form, with Shaw being injured Andy had an opportunity to really stake his claim and he has completely fumbled his opportunity

With the club looking at trading itself higher in this years draft Andy is truly in the trade gun

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Re Nutter & Stiffy

I'm not so concerned that the both may be in our round 1 best 22, I will be more concern if no one jumps up and takes there spot by round 22

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Thought your post was quality.

The one thing I think is missing with yours and Spacklers post is the issue of team balance and the understanding that you cannot just drop quality players who perform a very specific role for young and upcoming players who play other positions.

In our forward line we have a lack of quality crumbers. On our list I think that only Callinan and Stiffy can perform that role of a traditional small forward. Petrenko is a different player whose function and role is to apply defensive pressure inside 50 and keep the ball in. Porps will be playing the majority of his time through the middle. This leaves us with those two. The issue is that if you drop one of them - it makes our team considerably weaker as we are replacing an established crumber with a midfielder.

If Petrenko, Johncock or Callinan got injured I don't reckon we'd start forfeiting games. Let's not pretend these are completely exceptional players with a "unique set of skills" that only they possess in any quantity.

Spackler also brings up playing Doughty last year (and Shirley in the past) at the expense of youngsters. To me its an incredibly frustrating thought process that permeates big footy. The 'whipping boys' who perform a specific role (Dogga played on the oppositions best small forward all last year and Shirley was really our only quality tagger on our list) cannot just be replaced with rookies without it having a huge affect on the rest of the side. Replacing Dogga with a player like Jaensch or Martin last year and we would have been a much worse side defensively and lost stability and experience in the backline.

The thing is, these "role players" often (not always) fill the easiest roles in the team. The 7th defender, the small forward/part-time mid, the sub... if you aren't using these roles to usher in your most talented youngsters then there are no other spots for them.

We've seen the likes of Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod, Johnson introduced into AFL football filling these roles alongside other better players. Perfect environment for learning and development. On the job training. And if those identified youngsters genuinely have the goods, it doesn't take long for their output to outstrip the steady role players. One of my criticisms of Craig was that he cashed in on the players developed in this way prior to him getting there, but did not make similar sacrifices in terms of selection (until the wheels fell off in 2010/11 and everyone got injured anyway).

If our youngsters genuinely don't have the talent and that's why they aren't tipping the role players out of the team - that's fine - but we need to delist them. Not leave them on the list for years on end.

Also - this year we need to be playing our best side and trying to win it all. If that means playing Callinan for 22 games then so be it. Happy to never find out if Martin/Riley/Jaensch et al can make it as AFL players if we have a flag in 2013.

That's fine. As long as we never have to rely on those players (and Lyons, Kerridge etc) to be good players.

 

[1990crow]

Alright, my side for Round 1.

FF: Callinan - Walker - Porplyzia
HF: Petrenko - Jenkins - Vince
C: Douglas - Thompson - Sloane
HB: Mackay - Talia - Jaensch
FB: Reilly - Rutten - Shaw
R: Jacobs - VB - Dangerfield
B: Crouch - Wright - Henderson
S: Johncock

Em: Graham - Tambling - Riley