Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Handyandy]

All I will say that if you associate Nick Daicos with 'panic dumped kicks', you either don't understand the game or assess his game from last weekend's stats sheet.

If there is a player with better vision, decision making and disposal in the game, I'm yet to see them.

His 'efficiency' numbers may currently be down due to the role he's playing, but also due to the fact he regularly takes on a kick or handball that many other players wouldn't even see, let alone try to execute.

I understand the game
I don’t watch the woods every week but did watch v dons
What I saw was a bloke scared of body contact who panic dumps the ball under the slightest hint of body contact.
I watch butters, rozee & jhf most weeks & those three love taking the tackler on
About a dozen times nd got a loose ball in the guts and being used to watching proper mids, I expected him to take the tackler on
Instead he ran around in a circle and panicked
Not a true proper mid
Brilliant with space, but in tight he is well below average

 

[Fadge]

I understand the game
I don’t watch the woods every week but did watch v dons

OK.

Suggest you use a greater data set than one solitary game (where admittedly he was down on his usual output).

 

[EBERT THE KING]

It's amazing how people overlook the fact the day Nick Daicos walked in the door at Collingwood, they had just finished 17th and were bound for minimum 5 years in the bottom 4 due to the issues with their list.

For those who disagree with me, or fail to recall, go back and read the posts between August 2021 and March 2022...

'But, but, but...Nick has benefited from playing in a top team...'

Very strange comment this one.

2018 - GF
2019 - Prelim
2020 - Semi

With the exact list that you had when Nick entered.

You had a horror 2021, absolutely. But thats it.

Your list is way worse in 2024 than it is in any of those years. He has walked into a very very good team.

 

[Fadge]

Very strange comment this one.

2018 - GF
2019 - Prelim
2020 - Semi

With the exact list that you had when Nick entered.

You had a horror 2021, absolutely. But thats it.

Your list is way worse in 2024 than it is in any of those years. He has walked into a very very good team.

Exact same list?

Except....
Our multiple All-Australian and multiple Best and Fairest ruckman (Grundy)
One of our best midfielders from those years (Treloar)
The likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, etc. on the wrong side of 30 and not the players they were between 2018 and 2020.
Multiple players who kicked 20 to 40 goals in those seasons (Stephenson, Thomas)

Our list AND culture was apparently FUBARed - go back and read the commentary at the time.

 

[Gone Critical]

He looks scared & plays scared
Does a panic dump kick or runs out of bounds at the slightest hint of body contact
Proper natural mids relish taking the tackler on, not Nicky
That is why he can never ever be in any serious conversation for goat
Brilliant hbf but not a natural mid

Honestly are you really watching. Check the clip below and tell me he looks scared. Why he is where he is is mainly 3 things
1. His skills are top notch
2. His vision and ability to see the game are elite
3. He relentlessly wants to be involved

I will assume you have watched him against Port in the last 2 years where we have played you 3 times and he has dominated 2 of those games. Its just a mystery to me that anyone can say a player who is so involved in the game, who is so clutch, has risen repeatedly when hot games are on the line, who influences match outcomes more than any other player at Collingwood plays scared. Heres a sample of his most recent game against Port, tell me where you reckon he looks scared or plays scared

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Exact same list?

Except....
Our multiple All-Australian and multiple Best and Fairest ruckman (Grundy)
One of our best midfielders from those years (Treloar)
The likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, etc. on the wrong side of 30 and not the players they were between 2018 and 2020.
Multiple players who kicked 20 to 40 goals in those seasons (Stephenson, Thomas)

Our list AND culture was apparently FUBARed - go back and read the commentary at the time.

And heres the counter argument:

• A Prime De Goey
• A Prime Darcy Moore
• A Prime Brayden Maynard
• You recruited a brownlow medallist, whose main role is to help Nick

He came into the club with a very good list. He hasnt changed that himself. In fact it helps him massively.

Its ridiculous to say he didn't come into a good list, because he did.

 

[Fadge]

And heres the counter argument:

• A Prime De Goey
• A Prime Darcy Moore
• A Prime Brayden Maynard
• You recruited a brownlow medallist, whose main role is to help Nick

He came into the club with a very good list. He hasnt changed that himself. In fact it helps him massively.

Its ridiculous to say he didn't come into a good list, because he did.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Mitchell was also apparently finished as a footballer when he came to the club.

Did the drafting of Nick Daicos do anything at all to improve the list?

 

[Arr0w]

Blosers always comparing to Harry Sheezel like it’s some sort of trump card, and not acknowledging that Collingwood supporters love Harry Sheezel and believe he is an absolute superstar of the game. Both he and Daicos have set themselves up from the get go to two of the truly top players we’ve ever seen

So both will be in GOAT conversations?

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Mitchell was also apparently finished as a footballer when he came to the club.

Did the drafting of Nick Daicos do anything at all to improve the list?

Of course it did. Not saying it didnt.

But he has landed at a list that is miles in front of where most top 4 draftees land.

Its not even a comparison. Look at where Sheezel, Wardlaw, Harley Reid and Riley Thilthorpe have landed list wise. Thats what most top draft picks have to deal with. Daicos didnt.

 

[adammania9]

So both will be in GOAT conversations?

They’ve given themselves the start to head that way

 

[Handyandy]

Honestly are you really watching. Check the clip below and tell me he looks scared. Why he is where he is is mainly 3 things
1. His skills are top notch
2. His vision and ability to see the game are elite
3. He relentlessly wants to be involved

I will assume you have watched him against Port in the last 2 years where we have played you 3 times and he has dominated 2 of those games. Its just a mystery to me that anyone can say a player who is so involved in the game, who is so clutch, has risen repeatedly when hot games are on the line, who influences match outcomes more than any other player at Collingwood plays scared. Heres a sample of his most recent game against Port, tell me where you reckon he looks scared or plays scared

He is just not a natural mid
And it shows
Those short steps into contests
Those panic dump disposals under minimal pressure
His inability to take the tackler on like a quality mid. His little blind backspin seems his only trick to create space in congestion
I would take him in a heartbeat & play him off hbf where he is most damaging & naturally suited
But his inside contested ball work is embarrassing.
It stands out like dog balls to someone who has played & watched a lot of footy
He is very much an outside player
And that’s fine, not everyone is suited to the rigours of being a true midfielder
But when you talk about him as Goat then it is valid to point his flaws

 

[Fadge]

He is just not a natural mid
And it shows
Those short steps into contests
Those panic dump disposals under minimal pressure
His inability to take the tackler on like a quality mid. His little blind backspin seems his only trick to create space in congestion
I would take him in a heartbeat & play him off hbf where he is most damaging & naturally suited
But his inside contested ball work is embarrassing.
It stands out like dog balls to someone who has played & watched a lot of footy
He is very much an outside player
And that’s fine, not everyone is suited to the rigours of being a true midfielder
But when you talk about him as Goat then it is valid to point his flaws

Yeah, nah.

The alternate view is a player who gets the ball in congestion uses his elite vision, decision making and disposal to quickly give it off to a teammate in space, rather than take on a tackler and sometimes get through it, other times get caught and either give up a free kick or have to dispose of it under more pressure with worse options.

And if you look at the video shared by Gone Critical, Daicos does in fact take on the opposition many times by bursting them off with pace.

But because he refrains from the Reid/Martin style 'don't argues', you don't see him as having 'taken on an opponent'...

There's also no doubt the preference at Collingwood would be for him to be an outside mid/finisher, but his role has changed due to circumstances and he is currently one of the best clearance and contested possession players in the game. At 21 years of age.

 

[OniAu]

He is just not a natural mid
And it shows
Those short steps into contests
Those panic dump disposals under minimal pressure
His inability to take the tackler on like a quality mid. His little blind backspin seems his only trick to create space in congestion
I would take him in a heartbeat & play him off hbf where he is most damaging & naturally suited
But his inside contested ball work is embarrassing.
It stands out like dog balls to someone who has played & watched a lot of footy
He is very much an outside player
And that’s fine, not everyone is suited to the rigours of being a true midfielder
But when you talk about him as Goat then it is valid to point his flaws

Not a natural mid but played midfield in the GF and involved in the winning goal from his involvement twice.

What level have you played footy?

 

[Ricmel]

He is just not a natural mid
And it shows
Those short steps into contests
Those panic dump disposals under minimal pressure
His inability to take the tackler on like a quality mid. His little blind backspin seems his only trick to create space in congestion
I would take him in a heartbeat & play him off hbf where he is most damaging & naturally suited
But his inside contested ball work is embarrassing.
It stands out like dog balls to someone who has played & watched a lot of footy
He is very much an outside player
And that’s fine, not everyone is suited to the rigours of being a true midfielder
But when you talk about him as Goat then it is valid to point his flaws

You are embarrassing yourself here. Time to bow out.

 

[Handyandy]

Also nd is fairly weak aerially, contested mark wise. Surely anyone in a serious conversation about Goat should be well rounded, eg strong inside and outside game & strong aerially.
Like Buckley, Judd, Fyfe etc
Nd’s inside game & aerial game is nowhere near the standard of his outside game
Most true mid guns start their career in the guts too, if they are good enough

 

[OniAu]

Also nd is fairly weak aerially, contested mark wise. Surely anyone in a serious conversation about Goat should be well rounded, eg strong inside and outside game & strong aerially.
Like Buckley, Judd, Fyfe etc
Nd’s inside game & aerial game is nowhere near the standard of his outside game
Most true mid guns start their career in the guts too, if they are good enough

Judd was a terrible mark above the shoulders , what are you talking about

Ablett Jnr was a forward pocket for years before his break out

 

[Fadge]

Most true mid guns start their career in the guts too, if they are good enough

The best midfielder I have ever seen - Gary Ablett Junior - clearly no good according to this poster as he spent the first 4 to 5 years of his career as a small/medium forward....

 

[Fadge]

Not a natural mid but played midfield in the GF and involved in the winning goal from his involvement twice.

What level have you played footy?

Yeah, reckon Pendlebury's a pretty good judge when he chose Daicos and De Goey to join him in the last two centre bounces of the 2023 Grand Final.

Hate to think what would have happened had he have gone with a 'natural mid' instead...

 

[carndapies]

Honestly are you really watching. Check the clip below and tell me he looks scared. Why he is where he is is mainly 3 things
1. His skills are top notch
2. His vision and ability to see the game are elite
3. He relentlessly wants to be involved

I will assume you have watched him against Port in the last 2 years where we have played you 3 times and he has dominated 2 of those games. Its just a mystery to me that anyone can say a player who is so involved in the game, who is so clutch, has risen repeatedly when hot games are on the line, who influences match outcomes more than any other player at Collingwood plays scared. Heres a sample of his most recent game against Port, tell me where you reckon he looks scared or plays scared

Ironically Daicos fended off JHF in this video

 

[SuperSub17]

Very strange comment this one.

2018 - GF
2019 - Prelim
2020 - Semi

With the exact list that you had when Nick entered.

You had a horror 2021, absolutely. But thats it.

Your list is way worse in 2024 than it is in any of those years. He has walked into a very very good team.

And heres the counter argument:

• A Prime De Goey
• A Prime Darcy Moore
• A Prime Brayden Maynard
• You recruited a brownlow medallist, whose main role is to help Nick

He came into the club with a very good list. He hasnt changed that himself. In fact it helps him massively.

Its ridiculous to say he didn't come into a good list, because he did.

And yet here’s your own assessment of Collingwood in late 2021…

Premiers - Dogs
R/Up - Lions
Brownlow - Bont
Norm - Macrae
Rising star - Josh Ward
Risers - NMFC
Sliders - Geelong
Spoon - Collingwood

im shocked that some predictions have collingwood outside the bottom 4.

i think they are in serious serious trouble

Get Daicos in this year and then two first rounders next year, including a very high pick (1 or 2) will see their rebuild go well, and they may only be bottom 4 for 3 or so years.

Oh dear

 

[Arr0w]

They’ve given themselves the start to head that way

Glad we have reached this point

If we believe 1 could be in the conversation of GOAT, then so could the other based on what we know and see

The next phase is letting it play out, but unfortunately I suspect we will get weekly updates for both sides of the debate

And then new names/players such as Reid

So, purely based on Nick, "yes he might be in the conversation as a GOAT in years to come, but is not a definite"

 

[Fadge]

And yet here’s your own assessment of Collingwood in late 2021…








Oh dear

Good find, interesting find...

To be fair, he wasn't alone. But astounding he'd post what he's posted today knowing that was out there...

Not to mention his selection of Josh Ward for the Rising Star ahead of the likes of Daicos and JHF...

 

[Fadge]

I agree Sheezel has also been sensational and merits the same discussion. I would still have Daicos ahead but they are in the same ballpark. Both have career starts that leave them in front of what the modern greats of the game achieved. Thats the question you need to discuss. How do they compare with the 1st 2 seasons of the greats. Answer "They are better"

I agree, Sheezel has had an outstanding start to his career.

However I'll admit I haven't seen a heap of his games, but I do question how often he's been tagged over the course of his career?

If we're comparing raw stats, player ratings, etc., I'd suspect Daicos has had to deal with significantly more attention from opposition players than Sheezel has, simply because an outstanding performance from Daicos can be the difference between Collingwood winning and losing a game, whilst North's opposition haven't usually had that concern with Sheezel.

Would that be a fair statement?

 

[Gone Critical]

He is just not a natural mid
And it shows
Those short steps into contests
Those panic dump disposals under minimal pressure
His inability to take the tackler on like a quality mid. His little blind backspin seems his only trick to create space in congestion
I would take him in a heartbeat & play him off hbf where he is most damaging & naturally suited
But his inside contested ball work is embarrassing.
It stands out like dog balls to someone who has played & watched a lot of footy
He is very much an outside player
And that’s fine, not everyone is suited to the rigours of being a true midfielder
But when you talk about him as Goat then it is valid to point his flaws

Of all the ideas you have put forward here the one I disagree with most is the bolded.

The people who have played at the highest level then devoted their lives to analysing footy seem to have a very different view (i.e the ones who have played and watched a lot at the highest level) The coaches who plan around him and give him so many votes in their award. The expert commentators who see him as an incredibly dangerous mid.

He is the 3rd mid in centre square clearances behind Libba and Cripps and 4th in overall clearances. How does an ouside player who is scared do this? Why do the coaches see him as such a dangerous player when he squibs it and dumps possessions even with minimal pressure. Your views just dont make sense.

 

[Gone Critical]

I agree, Sheezel has had an outstanding start to his career.

However I'll admit I haven't seen a heap of his games, but I do question how often he's been tagged over the course of his career?

If we're comparing raw stats, player ratings, etc., I'd suspect Daicos has had to deal with significantly more attention from opposition players than Sheezel has, simply because an outstanding performance from Daicos can be the difference between Collingwood winning and losing a game, whilst North's opposition haven't usually had that concern with Sheezel.

Would that be a fair statement?

Don't think it would be hugely different if we looked at their 1st 2 seasons. Whether Sheezel will get the big upping of attention Nick has got this year in his 3rd season remains to be seen.