Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2022, part II

[Vdubs]

and to any integrity the AFL pretends to have

that ship has long ago sailed past- will Hird be forever castigated for that?

 

[rocker_oz33]

Clarko making the tough calls ...
Get out.

 

[Spearman]

that ship has long ago sailed past- will Hird be forever castigated for that?

he should, until he takes full responsibility, not qualified or deflecting contrition. I read he has said he had responsibility at a certain level. That's not good enough for what happened to his players.
I just don't think he should allowed into an AFL club. Best of luck to him in the real world, I'm sure he'll be successful.
For context, my favorite baseball player as a boy was Pete Rose. Modeled my own game after him. When he got suspended for gambling, I supported the decision. Zero tolerance or there's no point in having rules. From what I've seen and experienced in adult life, I'm even more sure that slackening of rules for certain cases does more harm than good.
Sorry for the mini rant.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Disagree.
He has done his time, and has plenty of football nous.
He doesn't need crazy Bomber Thompson as his "mentor".
If his coaching career is finished, it's a travesty imho.

Was an average coach and hasn't been part of any footy department or coaching group for 7 years.
If they bring him back it just reinforces many many terrible decisions they've made over the last 20 years.

 

[Lana]

that ship has long ago sailed past- will Hird be forever castigated for that?

Yes the Essendon Drug scandal is the worst thing I've seen in the AFL industry, the only place in the AFL that he could fit into is the channel 7 match day commentating team or have a regular column in the Herald Sun

 

[rocker_oz33]

Maybe under 12s.
LOL at Miller and Oliver hair dos.
Trac with the look at me smile .

 

[CatToTheFuture]

that ship has long ago sailed past- will Hird be forever castigated for that?

If sense prevails, yes

 

[catsfootyfan89]

A little more on the whole Hird issue...

There are different degrees of crimes, in almost every field. There are some crimes bad enough that the judgement passed down is akin to basically "Your character is just fundamentally incompatible with the level of responsibility your role requires."

This is why abusive parents aren't allowed to have children, or workplaces that disregard employee safety just get shut down permanently. If your behaviours fundamentally disregard to wellbeing of other humans, a fine / time-out / slap on the wrist just doesn't cut it. There's a reason some criminals get sent away forever with no hope of parole.

Now before you jump on me with the whole "He's a footy guy, not a murderer, your analogy is invalid, what a stupid thing to say" etc, let me outline why he should never coach again:

• His actions in the past were fundamentally negligible to a large number of vulnerable human beings, many of whom had their careers permanently ruined.
• His actions displayed a character flaw - that he valued certain things above and beyond the wellbeing of these people. These were scores of individuals who worked their entire lives to reach the pinnacle of achievement in their chosen field. Hird took that away from all of them.
• The severity of his crimes suggest that he just doesn't understand the ramifications of his actions, and he's not fit to be responsible for a group of people who would place their wellbeing in his hands.

The guy had his chance. 99.99% of coaches also have the ability to inject their players with illegal and potentially dangerous substances, but they don't. Why? Because even though footy is their entire world, even though they desperately want to win, and even though they might not be philosophy majors, they still understand that people come first, and footy players aren't just cattle to be prodded on your quest to be the hero.

We already tolerate enough shit in the AFL. Half of Richmond's list are criminals and garbage humans. Even commentators like Nick Riewoldt have been involved in scandals with their dicks out on camera having flings with teenagers. Premiership players sharing revenge pr0n with their mates. Morons like Ricciuto sending players on camps to have insults hurled at them and wrecking their mental health, ignoring racism etc.

Enough of this low-bar tolerance for trash people. We need to have higher standards and if that means the James Hirds of the world have to get into Real Estate, so be it.

 

[Strange Cat]

Disagree.
He has done his time, and has plenty of football nous.
He doesn't need crazy Bomber Thompson as his "mentor".
If his coaching career is finished, it's a travesty imho.

Strongly strongly disagree Bomber was completely against the drug program right from the start…if anything he was a much better coach for Essendon if it wasn’t for his own issues and despite those issues he was still vocal about not doing this “program”.

Hird also worked with carter back in the day when he had his foot injury a well known drug cheat and supplier

that drug scandal was the worse thing I’ve witness in the Australia sporting landscape ever and Essendon as well as Hird got away with it very very lightly

Melbourne Storm copped a worse punishment Ffs Ess and the individuals involved in the program should had been banned and thrown out of the system…they were selling medical results for their trials to the drug companies supplying hence it was all a medical experiment on the players without their knowledge

That’s not including Hird ignoring the multiple medical advice and warnings from the individuals and support staff

and you think the mastermind deserves a second chance for endangering player’s lives with experimental drugs for success and profit and putting the competition in question for cheating the system wi the said drug program and showing no remorse?

Delusional

There’s enough evidence around his flawed character let alone how terrible he was as a coach anyway.

 

[catempire]

Disagree.
He has done his time, and has plenty of football nous.
He doesn't need crazy Bomber Thompson as his "mentor".
If his coaching career is finished, it's a travesty imho.

Oh Vdubs.

He can come back, maybe, when he says “I made terrible mistakes that ruined a lot of lives and livelihoods and I am deeply sorry for that.”

Maybe. And then still probably no.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Oh Vdubs.

He can come back, maybe, when he says “I made terrible mistakes that ruined a lot of lives and livelihoods and I am deeply sorry for that.”

Maybe. And then still probably no.

I don't think you can breach a duty of care to the players that badly and ever be the senior decision maker again. Not everyone deserves second chances

 

[catempire]

I don't think you can breach a duty of care to the players that badly and ever be the senior decision maker again. Not everyone deserves second chances

Yep. I’m more exercised that he should take responsibility, more for the benefit of the game and his club than anything else. Right now they are in purgatory stuck with dual messiah and victim complexes.

 

[Strange Cat]

I don't think you can breach a duty of care to the players that badly and ever be the senior decision maker again. Not everyone deserves second chances

I still questions the extent of the players knowledge to believe they made a decision to go along with the program, but they had absolute no knowledge of the the drug results and their medical information being sold to the drug programs and didn’t know the extent of how experimental the drugs were …very naive but ultimately they had to be blamed for going along with it

But there’s no way Hird can come back from this ..not a chance

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I still questions the extent of the players knowledge to believe they made a decision to go along with the program, but they had absolute no knowledge of the the drug results and their medical information being sold to the drug programs and didn’t know the extent of how experimental the drugs were …very naive but ultimately they had to be blamed for going along with it

But there’s no way Hird can come back from this ..not a chance

I don't blame the players so much. They're victims here.

I absolutely do not understand how Hird has a job at gws.

 

[Strange Cat]

I don't blame the players so much. They're victims here.

I absolutely do not understand how Hird has a job at gws.

They are victim of the program I agree, innocent of breaching the WADA program by their rules not so much they did sign consent forms and knew to an extent that the drugs were breaching the rules or at the very least in a grey area to be called in question

Hird and the other parties responsible for creating and implementing this program should never have a job in the sporting landscape again..and remember Ess went to court for year to suppress the information and appeal over and over to prevent the punishment including Hird

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They are victim of the program I agree, innocent of breaching the WADA program by their rules not so much they did sign consent forms and knew to an extent that the drugs were breaching the rules or at the very least in a grey area to be called in question

Hird and the other parties responsible for creating and implementing this program should never have a job in the sporting landscape again..and remember Ess went to court for year to suppress the information and appeal over and over to prevent the punishment including Hird

Poor decisions by players were probably made but in the context of a tight knit team sport I'll hardly hang them for it.

Leadership is ultimately accountable and no one with judgement that poor should be in that position. No precedent should ever be set that you can risk the health of your players and ever come back to that position.

It has to be a no without second thought

 

[Strange Cat]

Poor decisions by players were probably made but in the context of a tight knit team sport I'll hardly hang them for it.

Leadership is ultimately accountable and no one with judgement that poor should be in that position. No precedent should ever be set that you can risk the health of your players and ever come back to that position.

It has to be a no without second thought

It’s insane that some of the board members are advocating to have him back in that position …absolutely insane

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It’s insane that some of the board members are advocating to have him back in that position …absolutely insane

I'm assuming it's media beat up.

Surely some journo just asked "is everyone with senior coach experience a possibility" and they probably responded "we won't exclude anyone". Then no one wants to bad mouth a club legend so no one comments when asked about Hird directly.

 

[StonedCat]

Enough of this low-bar tolerance for trash people. We need to have higher standards and if that means the James Hirds of the world have to get into Real Estate, so be it.

As if Real Estate agents couldn't get any lower you throw Hird into the pack.

 

[Strange Cat]

I'm assuming it's media beat up.

Surely some journo just asked "is everyone with senior coach experience a possibility" and they probably responded "we won't exclude anyone". Then no one wants to bad mouth a club legend so no one comments when asked about Hird directly.

The reports have been that some of the bird members are advocating strongly for his return …you would hope that’s just speculation for the sake of not only the club but the competition

The AFL protected Hird and the club for a long time during and after the “scandal” but I can see a big fall out even with the media lackeys writing puff pieces for the AFL to try and water down the outrage.

The fact he got a job at GWS shows that there’s a chance …at least some of the media have been viacal against the idea at least

 

[Mr Meow]

Should've been banned from all AFL coaching roles. An assistant role is inappropriate as it is.

 

[Vdubs]

Strongly strongly disagree Bomber was completely against the drug program right from the start…if anything he was a much better coach for Essendon if it wasn’t for his own issues and despite those issues he was still vocal about not doing this “program”.

Hird also worked with carter back in the day when he had his foot injury a well known drug cheat and supplier

that drug scandal was the worse thing I’ve witness in the Australia sporting landscape ever and Essendon as well as Hird got away with it very very lightly

Melbourne Storm copped a worse punishment Ffs Ess and the individuals involved in the program should had been banned and thrown out of the system…they were selling medical results for their trials to the drug companies supplying hence it was all a medical experiment on the players without their knowledge

That’s not including Hird ignoring the multiple medical advice and warnings from the individuals and support staff

and you think the mastermind deserves a second chance for endangering player’s lives with experimental drugs for success and profit and putting the competition in question for cheating the system wi the said drug program and showing no remorse?

Delusional

There’s enough evidence around his flawed character let alone how terrible he was as a coach anyway.

Strong and good points.
But historically, Bomber introduced Dean Robinson to the club, and Robinson brought along Danks.
Danks implemented and and carried out the whole programme.
It was Bomber who advised Hird that his team was too small to compete with the big-bodied teams like Geelong and Hawthorn
Hird was naive enough back then to even take the thymosin himself, and admitted he should have had better knowledge.
It's 10 years now, and he has surely done his time. That GWS is employing him is a statement.
Anyway, it is very unlikely to happen.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Strong and good points.
But historically, Bomber introduced Dean Robinson to the club, and Robinson brought along Danks.
Danks implemented and and carried out the whole programme.
It was Bomber who advised Hird that his team was too small to compete with the big-bodied teams like Geelong and Hawthorn
Hird was naive enough back then to even take the thymosin himself, and admitted he should have had better knowledge.
It's 10 years now, and he has surely done his time. That GWS is employing him is a statement.
Anyway, it is very unlikely to happen.

There's no such thing as "doing your time" on this.

 

[Strange Cat]

Strong and good points.
But historically, Bomber introduced Dean Robinson to the club, and Robinson brought along Danks.
Danks implemented and and carried out the whole programme.
It was Bomber who advised Hird that his team was too small to compete with the big-bodied teams like Geelong and Hawthorn
Hird was naive enough back then to even take the thymosin himself, and admitted he should have had better knowledge.
It's 10 years now, and he has surely done his time. That GWS is employing him is a statement.
Anyway, it is very unlikely to happen.

Bomber didn’t tell him to go cheat the system , the bucks stops at the coach he implemented and approved the program

It could be 20-30 years and it’ll still be a hard no

It was criminal medical negligence…can’t come back from that

 

[Wellsy35]

And yet the Essendon board don't seem to think this way - Hird is comfortably equal 2nd with "Someone Else" (lol) in a board poll on the new coach (56 votes), behind Lyon on 65.