Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2023, part I

[Chinacats]

Zorko gets grabbed on the aggots by Touk Miller

11

Touk Miller

Age

28

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

12.3

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.8

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

and nothing happens?? This is ridiculous…. How to stop N . Daicos in the finals …? Hmm interesting…

 

[MisterMarcus]

To this day the only thing that annoyed me about Ablett going up there was the story that was fed to everyone. Just be honest.

"...It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, a chance to set my family up for life, and I can't knock it back...".

No one would have had the slightest issue with that because we'd all do the same.

Yeah if Hardwick just said "I've been coach here for so long, this team needs a different voice, and I'm keen for a new challenge" type of stuff, nobody would bat an eyelid.

It's all this weird sneaky off-again/on-again stuff where he's burnt out but also wants to uproot his life and start a new job a few months later, that's making people cynical and annoyed.

 

[Partridge]

Zorko gets grabbed on the aggots by Touk Miller and nothing happens?? This is ridiculous…. How to stop N . Daicos in the finals …? Hmm interesting…

Do what Cripps and Carlton did. Make every contest physical. He's likely to jump the fence and join the spectators based on Friday's showing.

 

[Hamingja]

They'd be mad if they didn't. Points from the article. Evans is flying to Europe to catch up with Dimma (who's on holiday there) to put forward the offer.

The risk with Hardwick is once Uncle Steve changed the rules he was clueless and couldn't reinvent the team at all

 

[cats_09]

Zorko gets grabbed on the aggots by Touk Miller and nothing happens?? This is ridiculous…. How to stop N . Daicos in the finals …? Hmm interesting…

He's been suspended for a week

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Zorko gets grabbed on the aggots by Touk Miller and nothing happens?? This is ridiculous…. How to stop N . Daicos in the finals …? Hmm interesting…

End their bloodline and end the 2045 Collingwood threat?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The risk with Hardwick is once Uncle Steve changed the rules he was clueless and couldn't reinvent the team at all

The amount Melbourne and Collingwood took from the richmond game plan suggests the rule changes have not been the driver.

If you want to look at a more likely driver I would suggest contrasting the response they took to covid soft cap cuts against our response.

Chris Scott offered to go without pay for a year to keep his assistants together. Richmond sacked the assistants and kept Hardwick. That's why Richmond fell in a hole, the actual coaches that drive the success of a club on field left.

 

[StonedCat]

Zorko gets grabbed on the aggots by Touk Miller and nothing happens?? This is ridiculous…. How to stop N . Daicos in the finals …? Hmm interesting…

You have to wait for them to drop first

 

[Turbocat]

He's been suspended for a week

Have to say I dislike this.


If the afl have already said no case ... then they have responded to a public criticism from a player ..not much different to aplayer complaining about an umpires decision. Set a bad precedent.

Miller gets a week and Zorko should get fined...

 

[Turbocat]

The amount Melbourne and Collingwood took from the richmond game plan suggests the rule changes have not been the driver.

If you want to look at a more likely driver I would suggest contrasting the response they took to covid soft cap cuts against our response.

Chris Scott offered to go without pay for a year to keep his assistants together. Richmond sacked the assistants and kept Hardwick. That's why Richmond fell in a hole, the actual coaches that drive the success of a club on field left.

I think he just got to the end of the talent cycle and would no longer have the best of Martin... who really was the difference maker.

It will be interesting how he accesses their list. There will be some players he likes like Miller but there will be some changes he wants. He will turn them into a nasty side.

 

[cats_09]

Have to say I dislike this.


If the afl have already said no case ... then they have responded to a public criticism from a player ..not much different to aplayer complaining about an umpires decision. Set a bad precedent.

Miller gets a week and Zorko should get fined...

I don’t really like how this all played out, it just feels messy

What the AFL/MRO should have done on Monday was rather than declare no case to answer for Miller, that they instead interview both Zorko & Miller about the incident and keep things behind closed doors to investigate what actually happened - once they have better deals than just the footage, that’s when they make a decision


I swear it used to be that you didn’t talk about tribunal cases or potential cases in the media before it had actually been heard, but now that seems the default and at times that it has a heavy infleunce on decisions

 

[catsfootyfan89]

The thing I hate about Hardwick going to the Suns is that if he finds a way to make it succeed, he definitely goes down in history as one of the greatest modern coaches, if not the greatest.

 

[Mr Meow]

The thing I hate about Hardwick going to the Suns is that if he finds a way to make it succeed, he definitely goes down in history as one of the greatest modern coaches, if not the greatest.

He already is one of the modern greats. I don't think the contenders he faced for the three Richmond flags were strong but there is no doubt he created a vast competitive edge with his squad and game plan. That swarm was impossible for any team to handle, particularly come finals time. Overall he had less talent to work with than Clarkson, Matthews, Thompson and Scott's sides to name a few. Maybe Scott for 2022 or Clarkson for 2008 was close but Hardwick did it three times.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think he just got to the end of the talent cycle and would no longer have the best of Martin... who really was the difference maker.

It will be interesting how he accesses their list. There will be some players he likes like Miller but there will be some changes he wants. He will turn them into a nasty side.

How many talent cycles have we seen?

He will certainly make them ruthless and with the level of talent they have that should easily get them in the 8 next year, but the gap to 4th for them I think will be hard without turning over their assistants and getting the support they never gave Dew.

If they've torched their soft cap then they'll want to hope they can make to top 4 on pure talent

 

[Strange Cat]

How many talent cycles have we seen?

He will certainly make them ruthless and with the level of talent they have that should easily get them in the 8 next year, but the gap to 4th for them I think will be hard without turning over their assistants and getting the support they never gave Dew.

If they've torched their soft cap then they'll want to hope they can make to top 4 on pure talent

Soft cap should be ok now that the AFL are paying an extra $1mil outside of the cap

 

[Turbocat]

How many talent cycles have we seen?

He will certainly make them ruthless and with the level of talent they have that should easily get them in the 8 next year, but the gap to 4th for them I think will be hard without turning over their assistants and getting the support they never gave Dew.

If they've torched their soft cap then they'll want to hope they can make to top 4 on pure talent

It was not instant ting at Rich it took years for him. It was similar to Thompson at Geelong. He probably realised that he woukd have to drop out of contention for a period if his very best players were cooked..or at the very least ...fadding. I suspect Scott might know the same thing.. but for the moment he is commiteed to finding a way to beat the drop.

Hardwick to GC reminds me a bit of when Malthouse when to WC. Talented list which he brought mongrel to. He will shuffle it a bit, trade out a couple which he has not real love for and bring in a couple of hard at it desperate type.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Soft cap should be ok now that the AFL are paying an extra $1mil outside of the cap

I missed that. They should be able to snare some good assistants then.

The sun is finally rising

 

[Hinkley29]

The thing I hate about Hardwick going to the Suns is that if he finds a way to make it succeed, he definitely goes down in history as one of the greatest modern coaches, if not the greatest.

Or he goes to the Suns, they continue to suck and he somewhat tarnishes his legacy. They are average for another 3-4 seasons and he is then thought of as just another coach. The messiah rarely works out in AFL.

A bit like Blighty and st kilda, barassi at Melbourne in the 80s and in different circumstances bomba at Essendon.

This is the most likely outcome.

 

[Hinkley29]

He already is one of the modern greats. I don't think the contenders he faced for the three Richmond flags were strong but there is no doubt he created a vast competitive edge with his squad and game plan. That swarm was impossible for any team to handle, particularly come finals time. Overall he had less talent to work with than Clarkson, Matthews, Thompson and Scott's sides to name a few. Maybe Scott for 2022 or Clarkson for 2008 was close but Hardwick did it three times.

If Hardwick’s Tigers had to deal with the 2009 St Kilda team or the 2011 Collingwood team he would have 1 premiership if he was lucky.

It is the standard of opposition that we beat (2007 notwithstanding) that made our 3 premierships from 2007-2011 so impressive. More impressive than hawthorns 3peat, brisbanes 3-peat or Richmond’s 3 flags.

 

[Mr Meow]

If Hardwick’s Tigers had to deal with the 2009 St Kilda team or the 2011 Collingwood team he would have 1 premiership if he was lucky.

It is the standard of opposition that we beat (2007 notwithstanding) that made our 3 premierships from 2007-2011 so impressive. More impressive than hawthorns 3peat, brisbanes 3-peat or Richmond’s 3 flags.

Agreed.

But I'm not saying they had a better squad than our '07-'11 premiership teams. Far from it. I do see it as the dynasty this century that had the biggest influence from the coaches box rather than talent/stacks of elite players. They had a few stars but mostly good role players that developed the best team chemistry and execution of a game plan. So of course that goes onto Hardwick. In some circles, including many Richmond supporters, they put it more down to Martin. But even Martin's peak destroyer mode was unlocked by the way Dimma crafted the rest of the team and their approach.

 

[catempire]

Not particularly fussed either way, they aren't winning the flag anytime soon.

Especially not with Hardwick, a one trick pony of a coach who was never able to recover when teams worked out chaos ball and his star player faded. Then he sooked rather than adjusted when rules changed.

 

[Mr Meow]

Especially not with Hardwick, a one trick pony of a coach who was never able to recover when teams worked out chaos ball and his star player faded. Then he sooked rather than adjusted when rules changed.

Not many sides peak to the point of making grand finals etc for more than 4 years at a time - so that's not exactly ground breaking. Geelong stretched it to 5 but not with the same coach. Clarkson did it by way of getting that early '08 flag and the dynasty starting a few years later.

You're right that the very, very best will reinvent the wheel and get a flag(s) with a different core of players or club - but that's very rare.

Hardwick is definitely one of the better coaches this century. Whether he could have success at another club, who knows. It's hard to do.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

Or he goes to the Suns, they continue to suck and he somewhat tarnishes his legacy. They are average for another 3-4 seasons and he is then thought of as just another coach. The messiah rarely works out in AFL.

A bit like Blighty and st kilda, barassi at Melbourne in the 80s and in different circumstances bomba at Essendon.

This is the most likely outcome.

I usually don't wish for bad things to happen to people.

Usually.

 

[catempire]

Not many sides peak to the point of making grand finals etc for more than 4 years at a time - so that's not exactly ground breaking. Geelong stretched it to 5 but not with the same coach. Clarkson did it by way of getting that early '08 flag and the dynasty starting a few years later.

You're right that the very, very best will reinvent the wheel and get a flag(s) with a different core of players or club - but that's very rare.

Hardwick is definitely one of the better coaches this century. Whether he could have success at another club, who knows. It's hard to do.

I can’t knock his record. Mine is a prediction that he won’t be capable to reproduce his success elsewhere.

 

[Strange Cat]

Hardwick may take them to the finals but I can’t see that list winning a flag anytime soon