- Feb 7, 2011
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Next year
List Mgmt. Official 2016 trade period discussion
- Thread starter Son_Of_God29
- Start date
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BlightysCats
Norm Smith Medallist
- Banned
- #7,177
Who cares if we stay 'classy,' this comp is about winning not being classy - more old Geelong elitist nonsense.The most surprising element for me in this particular trade period is the surprise that many supposedly feel at the way the Cats have conducted themselves.
Cannot think of a single trade period in recent times where we have played hardball and forced our players into corners to compel them to meet the club's agenda.
For me, it's a key reason why players like Lids and Tuohy this time around both asked to make their way down to the Cattery. We are definitely seen as a club that treats its players with respect around trade time and not simply as commodities to be brokered.
I can understand that quite a number here don't like that this is the case. But surely we've all been following our trade dealings for long enough to know that's how we roll at this time of year.
Seems like the whole trade period went pear-shaped for us when interest in Mots went nowhere. He was seemingly the only collateral that we were prepared to release that could have unlocked a deal for Deledio with the Tigers. Once it was clear that he wasn't going to garner much interest from them (or anyone else, for that matter), we had nothing meaningful left to take to the table with any other clubs. And our subsequent planning for meaningful deals just fell apart.
Caddy clearly had his head turned by a lucrative offer from the Tigers (four year deal for him now, I believe) and Geelong was simply not prepared to live with having a disgruntled player on the list who was frustrated by the lack of support from the club to help him pick up the long-term deal he was looking for.
Again, you don't have to like it but that's how we clearly work at moments like these. The deals for Kersten and Vardy are more of the same, to a lesser degree. Rather than insisting that the player be treated like a chattel, we work with other clubs to see our (past) players benefit. Which means that we 'lose' every single one of these deals, when taken at face value. Whilst retaining a reputation as a club where players know they will not be simply coerced into unsatisfactory arrangements for them in order to advance the club's cause.
I do find it ironic that posters here like to wax on about the need for the club to treat our veteran players with respect while also seemingly being quite happy to trample on the future AFL dreams of younger and lesser quality players in the mighty name of the GFC. I think the club shows integrity most of the time in treating all our players with some dignity and respect while also seeking to further the cause of the GFC at the same time. With competing agendas like those, it's no surprise that the club loses out sometimes in seeking to do the right thing by its players.
And if the alternative is to end up with the debacle that is now the Brycelet's future with the Tankers, I would prefer the current approach of the GFC every time.
In summary, our trade period has clearly been nothing like the outstanding success of last year. However, I think there's still some cause for optimism with how it's worked out.
Tuohy will be a clear win for us, I believe, as he prospectively goes a long way to dealing with a glaring issue in our back half for quite a few seasons to come.
I'm on the record as never being sure whether Billie was going to amount to much at all for us, so I can live with his departure and the (hopefully) minimal pick downgrade that ensues.
Black is neither here nor there for me, as I think he's long odds to make a big difference for us. Have to deal with his salary for next year. I know, but after that he should be on relatively limited coin. Does provide at least one other option for us up forward to ease the torrent of pressure on Toma.
Kersto out is not my preference but clearly he's not rated that highly by decision-makers at the club. Not being picked for that prelim was damning (considering how the cupboard was pretty much bare for that game) so I'm not at all surprised that a decent offer of money and gametime at Freo (as well as the 'go home' factor) has seen him out the door. Given that, club was always going to facilitate a deal and Shane and the Shockers both knew it.
Vardy, on recent exposed 'form' and injury history, cannot be considered a significant loss at all. Any late pick was going to be enough for us to pull the trigger and send him where he wanted to go.
Cadds is the one that really hurts for mine. Although I think we do seriously overrate our players sometimes, and have to acknowledge that his mixed form over the journey does probably put him in the late first-early second window as a draft pick. Which is pretty much where we ended up with him. Get the impression the option of going to Punt Road appealed more and more to him as the days went by, and we therefore decided not to stand in his way.
While they're different players to a degree, I think full pre-seasons into Mena and Scoot (and the potential rise of Nakia and Lang) might have us not missing 'the Bull' quite as much as some might think. In fact, I'm dreading his absence as a forward option more than anything. Hopefully the younger players available for those positions can step up and make a place down there their own.
In the end, you clearly can't call our 2016 trade period a massive win. However, I'm not sure it will end up as disastrously for us as some now think.
And some further Wells wisdom applied to our second and early third-round picks in 2016 might just leave us a little better placed than we all think right now.
In any case, while our approach to this specific trade period might have many scratching their heads, I don't think anyone can suggest that it doesn't fit with our overarching trade philosophy of recent times.
More than any other club in the comp, we seek to treat our players with dignity and further their prospects for continued AFL footy, wherever that might be.
Many will suggest that they don't like that appoach at all. And that's all fine. But I think you do have to acknowledge and respect it.
While I generally don't like this year's trade outcomes for us either, I'm pleased that the club can stay classy in the midst of some pretty ordinary behaviour by clubs as they back players into very awkward positions to suit their own ends.
Anyway, grateful it's over for another 12 months so that posters can go the club over a whole host of other matters for a while.
Jhye Clark 13
07, 09, 11, 22
- Feb 16, 2007
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I'm chuffed at this trade period I really am.
Haven't the time now to explain why but I will later.
Haven't the time now to explain why but I will later.
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Wells is a brilliant recruiter but is soft on giving players what they want needs to show backbone. Should have refused to trade caddy for what was offered as he was contracted. To trade out a first rounder and not get one in for josh is a tactical fail. Unless motlops salary has blown up the cap something silly trading josh for 24 is not justifiable.
Tuohy trade was good. In terms of our best 22 its net gain but we should have got more at the trade table. Wells should stay as recruiter but hocking should do trades from now on.
Dont rate either kersten or black so its a nil all draw.
Vardy is pathetic to walk out for what he did after all the faith the club has put into him.
Anyway move on hope we get some good kids and tom stewart in the draft.
Tuohy trade was good. In terms of our best 22 its net gain but we should have got more at the trade table. Wells should stay as recruiter but hocking should do trades from now on.
Dont rate either kersten or black so its a nil all draw.
Vardy is pathetic to walk out for what he did after all the faith the club has put into him.
Anyway move on hope we get some good kids and tom stewart in the draft.
North will be paying half of next years contract. Not sure what he will be on after that as Geelong have negotiated that part.
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The most surprising element for me in this particular trade period is the surprise that many supposedly feel at the way the Cats have conducted themselves.
Cannot think of a single trade period in recent times where we have played hardball and forced our players into corners to compel them to meet the club's agenda.
For me, it's a key reason why players like Lids and Tuohy this time around both asked to make their way down to the Cattery. We are definitely seen as a club that treats its players with respect around trade time and not simply as commodities to be brokered.
I can understand that quite a number here don't like that this is the case. But surely we've all been following our trade dealings for long enough to know that's how we roll at this time of year.
Seems like the whole trade period went pear-shaped for us when interest in Mots went nowhere. He was seemingly the only collateral that we were prepared to release that could have unlocked a deal for Deledio with the Tigers. Once it was clear that he wasn't going to garner much interest from them (or anyone else, for that matter), we had nothing meaningful left to take to the table with any other clubs. And our subsequent planning for meaningful deals just fell apart.
Caddy clearly had his head turned by a lucrative offer from the Tigers (four year deal for him now, I believe) and Geelong was simply not prepared to live with having a disgruntled player on the list who was frustrated by the lack of support from the club to help him pick up the long-term deal he was looking for.
Again, you don't have to like it but that's how we clearly work at moments like these. The deals for Kersten and Vardy are more of the same, to a lesser degree. Rather than insisting that the player be treated like a chattel, we work with other clubs to see our (past) players benefit. Which means that we 'lose' every single one of these deals, when taken at face value. Whilst retaining a reputation as a club where players know they will not be simply coerced into unsatisfactory arrangements for them in order to advance the club's cause.
I do find it ironic that posters here like to wax on about the need for the club to treat our veteran players with respect while also seemingly being quite happy to trample on the future AFL dreams of younger and lesser quality players in the mighty name of the GFC. I think the club shows integrity most of the time in treating all our players with some dignity and respect while also seeking to further the cause of the GFC at the same time. With competing agendas like those, it's no surprise that the club loses out sometimes in seeking to do the right thing by its players.
And if the alternative is to end up with the debacle that is now the Brycelet's future with the Tankers, I would prefer the current approach of the GFC every time.
In summary, our trade period has clearly been nothing like the outstanding success of last year. However, I think there's still some cause for optimism with how it's worked out.
Tuohy will be a clear win for us, I believe, as he prospectively goes a long way to dealing with a glaring issue in our back half for quite a few seasons to come.
I'm on the record as never being sure whether Billie was going to amount to much at all for us, so I can live with his departure and the (hopefully) minimal pick downgrade that ensues.
Black is neither here nor there for me, as I think he's long odds to make a big difference for us. Have to deal with his salary for next year. I know, but after that he should be on relatively limited coin. Does provide at least one other option for us up forward to ease the torrent of pressure on Toma.
Kersto out is not my preference but clearly he's not rated that highly by decision-makers at the club. Not being picked for that prelim was damning (considering how the cupboard was pretty much bare for that game) so I'm not at all surprised that a decent offer of money and gametime at Freo (as well as the 'go home' factor) has seen him out the door. Given that, club was always going to facilitate a deal and Shane and the Shockers both knew it.
Vardy, on recent exposed 'form' and injury history, cannot be considered a significant loss at all. Any late pick was going to be enough for us to pull the trigger and send him where he wanted to go.
Cadds is the one that really hurts for mine. Although I think we do seriously overrate our players sometimes, and have to acknowledge that his mixed form over the journey does probably put him in the late first-early second window as a draft pick. Which is pretty much where we ended up with him. Get the impression the option of going to Punt Road appealed more and more to him as the days went by, and we therefore decided not to stand in his way.
While they're different players to a degree, I think full pre-seasons into Mena and Scoot (and the potential rise of Nakia and Lang) might have us not missing 'the Bull' quite as much as some might think. In fact, I'm dreading his absence as a forward option more than anything. Hopefully the younger players available for those positions can step up and make a place down there their own.
In the end, you clearly can't call our 2016 trade period a massive win. However, I'm not sure it will end up as disastrously for us as some now think.
And some further Wells wisdom applied to our second and early third-round picks in 2016 might just leave us a little better placed than we all think right now.
In any case, while our approach to this specific trade period might have many scratching their heads, I don't think anyone can suggest that it doesn't fit with our overarching trade philosophy of recent times.
More than any other club in the comp, we seek to treat our players with dignity and further their prospects for continued AFL footy, wherever that might be.
Many will suggest that they don't like that appoach at all. And that's all fine. But I think you do have to acknowledge and respect it.
While I generally don't like this year's trade outcomes for us either, I'm pleased that the club can stay classy in the midst of some pretty ordinary behaviour by clubs as they back players into very awkward positions to suit their own ends.
Anyway, grateful it's over for another 12 months so that posters can go the club over a whole host of other matters for a while.
Great post, Wellsy.
No need to clarify that you have no interest in staying classy. That's always been abundantly clear.
Cats were classy and victorious in '07, '09 and '11. I remain hopeful that we'll see more of the same in times to come.
With our only ins being Touhy and Black... (isn't the other Irish guy in a spot not counted on the total list?)
With Caddy gone Bartel easily could've had a cameo role in the midfield and being a utility around the ground without much of an issue.
LawnMosey
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- Sep 26, 2015
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Carlton got a future second from GWS in the Marchbank/Pickett trade that they passed on to Hawks.So Carlton has 2 future 2nds to trade away?
If they don't, did they get a future 2nd from some where, does this mean Hawks paid under a for jom or did we just pay a future first and smedts for 2e?
No wonder you guys were so keen to get rid of him!
Was he judged as having decent potential? Why was he paid so much?
- Sep 18, 2014
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The thing that really bothers me is we didn't have to give caddy, he was contracted, unless the club is telling lies and Caddy really wanted out, he must've fell out with the club.
Black on half the contract amount (half subsidized by NM) and with such a late pick is a good deal, only 200k per season. I like this one.
rocker_oz33
TheBrownDog
After last year trade period it was always going be hard to back that up.
How deep is a deep draft? We are proper stacked up for picks between 60-90. We chose an unusual way to trade into the draft to say the least. There is <1% chance a guy taking after 60 will become a decent player.
I like the deal now, I thought we were paying his full contract. At $400k per year he wouldn't be worth it.
rocker_oz33
TheBrownDog
Cat B rookie Irish Jr is.
On the proviso that Wellsy doesn't reach with our early picks - there should be good players selected with our picks 24, 38, 42. Our picks beyond that are speculative, unless we go a mature aged player with those later picks - House and Stewart (although Stewart may require an earlier pick),
- Nov 12, 2015
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I'd be hoping for 2 or 3 mature-ish aged second tier comp players, possibly fast wingers/half backs, zippy forward pocket and some talls.
- May 18, 2016
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Cocky, Lang and Gregson really need to step up next year.
bigblackboz
Club Legend
If we go beyond that.
We have Vardy, Kersten, Caddy, Smedts, Enright and Bartel going with Tuohy, Black and Ruggles to be added to the Senior List. This means at the moment, we only have 3 picks 24, 38 and 42.
I think Luxford and possibly Clark are in up in the air. I wouldn't be surprised to see either stay especially Clark. After that it's 64 and 72. Not sure there is much that late in the draft. That being said we acquired both those picks in trades so I'm not sure.
I'd be happy going with 24, 38 and 42. I think Geelong draft relatively better in that range than with higher draft picks. Very comfortable if the draft is deep which apparently it is.
That's true. Probably because it's difficult to see what our trade philosophy actually is.
Acknowledge it yes. Respect it? Not in the slightest.
This isn't a charity, or some PR exercise to ensure ex-players get jobs elsewhere because we don't want to hurt their feelings. This is professional sport, with one single goal - winning premierships. If a club isn't doing everything in its power to advance that goal, they aren't doing their job.
Just got home... big day for the club with Ablett coming and the great deal we got for Caddy... on our way to a GF. Have to be positive vibes on the board today.
The Touhy trade is only good if we make top 6 and Carlton finish bottom 4, them keeping Gibbs and our horror trade period makes this trade a lot more of a gamble. a few injuries and this could be a disaster.
- Sep 15, 2010
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We're okay for 2010 draft ages IMO, Ruggles & Menegola would've gone then if they'd been taken in a ND.
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