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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Our starting mid-field
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mattys123
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Ball is an inside mid and nothing else, he doesn't have the ability to play anywhere else, especially after an ACL injury at his age. And plus, we need him desperately in that midfield, he makes it so much easier for so many other mids, even the tough inside mids who did most of the work why he was out last year.
- Dec 12, 2010
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Preaching to the choir, mate.
in his last full year Ball had as many goal assists as Eddie Betts, was top five in total assists for the year and had more assists than Chapman, Milne, Lewis ans Stokes. He routinely started games in 2011 on a HFF, and was ALWAYS rested there when he wasn't in the center square.
Ball is a very effective HFF who pushs up, gets to good spots, is a reasonable snap for goal (kicked 18 goals in 2011). He can absolutely play HFF if fit.
That said Bucks was on the radio saying that Ball was our best defensive mid and he expects him to play that role again this year.
Half the side DO rotate through the middle, but there are still only a limited number of minutes up for grabs. the back six is pretty settled, back flankers might follow half forwards into the square at the center bounce, but that is not the same thing as being part of the midfield rotations so:
FB: Toovey Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid O'Brien
are NOT mids nor are they in the midfield rotation.
the 1p key forward is not in the rotation either;
FF: Cloke
We also tend to play a third tall defensive forward, last year it was Goldsack and he played his best season for us, and if he could straighten up his kicking for goal, especially early, he could be a real weapon for us, so;
HFF: Goldsack
Not in the rotation.
And the sub doesn't count because we would almost certaintly pull a rotation to put him on and he only plays for 20 minutes anyway.
Add the first ruck and 2p forward cum relief ruck and you have about 11 guys who are not rotating as true midfeilders, so;
FB: Toovey Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid O'Brien
C: MID1 MID2 MID3
HF: MID4 Lynch Goldsack
FF: MID5 CLoke MID6
R: Jolly MID7 MID8
INT:
MID9
MID10
MID11
SUB:
Sub
I have:
1. Thomas
2. Swan
3. Sidebottom
4. Ball
5. Didak
6. Krakouer
7. Beams
8. Pendles
9. Fasolo
10. Blair
11. Johnson
Actually, Johnno usually plays as our 7th sweeping defender and does not play many midfield minutes, but that sweeping role is almost a wing style role but played from behind the square rather than on one side of it, so it's sort of an edge case.
Ball is a very effective HFF who pushs up, gets to good spots, is a reasonable snap for goal (kicked 18 goals in 2011). He can absolutely play HFF if fit.
That said Bucks was on the radio saying that Ball was our best defensive mid and he expects him to play that role again this year.
Half the side DO rotate through the middle, but there are still only a limited number of minutes up for grabs. the back six is pretty settled, back flankers might follow half forwards into the square at the center bounce, but that is not the same thing as being part of the midfield rotations so:
FB: Toovey Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid O'Brien
are NOT mids nor are they in the midfield rotation.
the 1p key forward is not in the rotation either;
FF: Cloke
We also tend to play a third tall defensive forward, last year it was Goldsack and he played his best season for us, and if he could straighten up his kicking for goal, especially early, he could be a real weapon for us, so;
HFF: Goldsack
Not in the rotation.
And the sub doesn't count because we would almost certaintly pull a rotation to put him on and he only plays for 20 minutes anyway.
Add the first ruck and 2p forward cum relief ruck and you have about 11 guys who are not rotating as true midfeilders, so;
FB: Toovey Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid O'Brien
C: MID1 MID2 MID3
HF: MID4 Lynch Goldsack
FF: MID5 CLoke MID6
R: Jolly MID7 MID8
INT:
MID9
MID10
MID11
SUB:
Sub
I have:
1. Thomas
2. Swan
3. Sidebottom
4. Ball
5. Didak
6. Krakouer
7. Beams
8. Pendles
9. Fasolo
10. Blair
11. Johnson
Actually, Johnno usually plays as our 7th sweeping defender and does not play many midfield minutes, but that sweeping role is almost a wing style role but played from behind the square rather than on one side of it, so it's sort of an edge case.
LMAo what a load of croc shit, Ball has and can play up forward on a flank or even as a FP.
He didn't go pick 2 for no reason he has a lot of talent, is great 1v1 and often gets to the right spots and is a tidy kick at goal, he isn't as limited by his groin like he was at St.Kilda and was moving quite well since he has come to the club. Probably due to better player management and medical programs.
I do agree however that his primary role is as a hard nut mid.
I see the Fas and Caf as similar types with similar tanks especially now that Caf has lacked continuity over the past couple of years.
2010 was Macaffers best ever year. He was 22. Last year Fasolo was 19. He had more disposals per game than Caff's best year. He had more marks. He had more goals. he had more contested possessions. He had more running bounces. Caff is five years older than Fas and has played 7 FEWER career games.
I am a Caff fan, and I hope he makes it back from what has been a horror run with injury, but Fas is ahead of him right now and still only 20 years old, in his 3rd year at the club. I expect him to improve rapidly this year and leave Caff, Sinclair and Elliot in the dust, and start putting serious pressure on Blair.
Not sure why people are sceptical of Fasolo, he has improved every year he has been here, cemented a spot in the side last year, and is still young enough to have a large scope for improvement.
I am a Caff fan, and I hope he makes it back from what has been a horror run with injury, but Fas is ahead of him right now and still only 20 years old, in his 3rd year at the club. I expect him to improve rapidly this year and leave Caff, Sinclair and Elliot in the dust, and start putting serious pressure on Blair.
Not sure why people are sceptical of Fasolo, he has improved every year he has been here, cemented a spot in the side last year, and is still young enough to have a large scope for improvement.
It's the brash attitude, the puky wogboy attitude - gets up some peoples noses and interferes with judgement.
No doubt he has that swagger, and maybe not the runs yet on the board to back it up. But he is a genuinely good player. By the time he is 23 -24 he will be a gun IMO.
Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
Even in 2011 ball spent parts of quarters playing at full forward and looked accomplished both one out on his marker and te lead. Was a quite the weapon in that role
Difference is Mccaffer would be working hard over the pre season to get back in the middle. Fasolo is still all talk and show boating..
Swagger.. I hate that word but agree. He talks like he has a won the brownlow. Far too a head of himself. Plenty of blokes better than him. He will want to back it up in the following few years.
So I'm guessing TG your not the president of the Fasolo fan club?
forwardflanker
Cancelled
It was such a tragedy that Ball did his knee last season. I'd never seen him move so well up until then. Looked like he had well and truly recovered from his St Kilda woes and though he was a good chance for AA until the injury.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
You could argue though, that McCaffers form in the back end of 2010 was better than anything Fasolo has produced to date.
I don't think it does much justice to compare them though because positionally they play very differently. McCaffer did his work as a hard runner accross half forward; Fasolo as a forward is better in a deeper role.
There's no doubt that as a forward Fasolo is a much more skillful player who can hit the scoreboard hard without getting high possessions. On the other hand Macaffer has the edge in terms of height, speed, strength and endurance which makes him a more difficult match up for the opposition imo. He also offers a lot more in off the ball pressure than the Fas.
It's a fair assumption that we will be playing with a smaller forward line this year, we can't afford to not have a medium sized marking target down there. In this respect it really comes down to making a choice between Goldsack and Macaffer - personally I'd take Macaffer in this role.
If Fasolo is competing with anyone for a spot as a full time forward it would be with Krakouer as the deeper lying player. Given Krak is a better crumber and also how we went last year when he wasn't in the side, I doubt that he'll be getting moved down there any time soon.
I also think Fasolo is wasted a bit playing as a permanent forward, especially since we already have options down there. He has the skills to become a high level midfield player however the only way he develops is getting more time in the guts which I really hope will be the case over the next couple of seasons.
Actually thought he looked really good in his cameo in defence last year, can see him playing the L.Davis role and flourishing as he has very clean disposal and great 1v1.
For reasons you have stated FF (height, speed, strength and endurance) I see room for both a fully fit Caf and Goldy in the side. Both have the qualities mentioned and can play comfortably between HF and HB flanks or on a wing. They both have the ability to play attacking or negating roles in any of these positions as well.
IMO we have been far too small since 2010, mostly by necessity due to Goldy struggling under Mick in 2011 and Caf missing in 2012. Add to this Dawes unsuccessful transition as a forward/ Ruck robbed us of another quality tall, albeit KP. Their height and point of difference will be welcome additions in 2013 as will Young's.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
Yeah he definitely has good enough disposal for it - I query his footpace though and think he could get isolated anddragged back to the goalsquare a lot if we were to try to play through him. Davis was surprisingly good 1v1 which meant we didn't get exploited to much by playing through him,I doubt if the Fas is as good defensively.
I would really like to see him groomed to take over from Luke Ball and play as inside mid. He's got the clean hands, body shape and composure to be really effective imo, just needs to find more of the ball.
It's a pretty good situation though when you have guy as young as he is who would potentially play at all ends of the ground effectively.
No. That is exactly what I am arguing is not the case. Macaffer's highest ever possession stat for a game is 22, Fasolo's best is also 22 possessions. Macaffer's highest ever goal return is 3. Fasolo's is 5. Macaffer's highest ever tackle count is 8. so is Fasolo's.
Fasolo's best footy is already better than anything Macaffer has produced in his career so far. Macffer is 25. Fasolo is 20.
Macaffer had a ten week period when he was a solid member of our best 22 in the second half of 2010. Fully fit, at full confidence, he has the capacity to be a very good medium forward with good forward pressure, good marking, and so on. But he is starting from a long way back, and anyone who reckons he is just going to walk into the 22 ahead of blokes with 2012 runs on the board like Goldsack or Fasolo is just dreaming.
Macaffer will have to play very good footy at VFL level to break into the side, that is just the reality for a mid aged player with 30 career games in his first year back from a knee reconstruction.
I'm not sure. I think a good NAB cup series would see Macaffer in the 22 for round 1. You're right, he's not a walk up starter to the team after missing 2 years, but as long as he can show his worth on the track (sounds like he has) and during the preseason games, he'll be played. FWIW I don't think comparing stats between two players then saying one is better is very accurate when they play diffeent roles. Macaffer had a lot of run with and defensive roles in 2010 and was really important to the team's structure not just up forward, but with containing damaging players such as Chapman. Fasolo should turn out to be a great player, but IMO his value to the team hasn't been as great as what Macaffer's was in 2010.
Macaffer hasn't got a snowballs hope in hell of getting into our 22 as a defender or a mid. He is a medium forward or bust in 2013. If he wants to crack that front six he has to push out one of Cloke, Lynch, Fasolo, Krakouer, Didak, Blair or Goldsack. AND he will have to be in better form as a forward than Paine, Elliot, Sinclair, Mooney, Kennedy, Broomhead etc.
He may play in round one. Goldsack is returning from surgery, pre-season injuries can happen, maybe he will tear apart a praccy match or a a NAB game, but I would be suprised.
He may play in round one. Goldsack is returning from surgery, pre-season injuries can happen, maybe he will tear apart a praccy match or a a NAB game, but I would be suprised.
Quicky
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Macaffers biggest strength is his contested ability. He may not get much of the footy but when he is in a contest he more often wins. He is very good 1v1, very strong. This is critical in finals as was shown with his grand final performances.
Fasolo is more of a creative player, bigger numbers, enormous potential, strong overhead etc etc. I think he can be more flaky and can try a bit too much when simpler footy would be more effective.
I think they are both very good chances of being in the side and their selection isn't dependant on the other.
I agree Macaffer is fighting it out with Goldsack. I think Goldsack is the encumbent but both will have opportunities. The better performer will get that third tall role.
Fasolo is more of a creative player, bigger numbers, enormous potential, strong overhead etc etc. I think he can be more flaky and can try a bit too much when simpler footy would be more effective.
I think they are both very good chances of being in the side and their selection isn't dependant on the other.
I agree Macaffer is fighting it out with Goldsack. I think Goldsack is the encumbent but both will have opportunities. The better performer will get that third tall role.
I don't get the bad wraps that Fasolo gets. He is young and enthusiastic but always presents hard and seems to be able to kick a goal at important times although he still has some consistency issues which is standard for most 20 yr olds.
I can't remember any tv or radio interviews and he seems to keep his nose clean. Lets give him a break and get behind him. He's enormously talented and we will be the beneficiaries of plenty of improvement to come. I think he could be our Mark Mercuri in a couple of seasons.
I can't remember any tv or radio interviews and he seems to keep his nose clean. Lets give him a break and get behind him. He's enormously talented and we will be the beneficiaries of plenty of improvement to come. I think he could be our Mark Mercuri in a couple of seasons.
