Port and Free Agency (2012)

[Peck]

I'll put it this way. As I see it, delisting a bad player is a good decision. Picking up a bad player is a bad decision.

That's it.

 

[PJ Power]

Surjan has never been a bad player. We're delisting 26-27 year olds who when fit play great football. We have a new fitness coach. We have a new senior coach.

I have absolutely no problem delisting Rodan. Allowing Chaplin to walk was a terrific move. Not giving Pearce and Surjan an opportunity to prove themselves under Hinkley and Burgess, while we retain Salter, Logan, Thomas and Daniel Stewart is the height of poor management.

 

[shewho]

I wonder if Melbourne would be tempted by 7 + Jacobs for 4, particularly if they're high on a player that could slide to 7.

Might give us a sneaky chance at Toumpas or Grundy.

Or failing that, the next best Vic Metro mummy's boy.

This is inventive and possible although unlikely.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

Because Surjan beats Stephen Milne every time they play on each other. Just like he beats Mark LeCras, Eddie Betts, Cyril Rioli, Jason Porplyzia and any other small forward you can think of. Both Surjan and Milne are among the very best at their position. Henry Slattery and Simon Phillips are among the very worst. And then there's Tom Logan, who had a combined 13 goals kicked on him by the might of Leroy Jetta, Tory Dickson and Paul Puopolo this year.

I would still trade Surj for Cyril?

 

[BIG MATTY T]

Well what can we do...

The Chaplin pick was fair I think but the Pearce one we got underdone a bit

 

[Peck]

Because Surjan beats Stephen Milne every time they play on each other. Just like he beats Mark LeCras, Eddie Betts, Cyril Rioli, Jason Porplyzia and any other small forward you can think of. Both Surjan and Milne are among the very best at their position. Henry Slattery and Simon Phillips are among the very worst. And then there's Tom Logan, who had a combined 13 goals kicked on him by the might of Leroy Jetta, Tory Dickson and Paul Puopolo this year.

I looked at the stats from Milne vs Surjan possible games to see if he beats him every time. I can't make too much from them other than that Surjan probably beat Milne every time they played on eachother in 07/08 and its kind of towards Milne since then. Here are the stats along with whether we won or not.

Rd 16 2006: Milne 1.1 14d 5m - Surjan 0.1 9d 4m - Loss
Rd 05 2007: Milne 2.1 10d 3m - Surjan 19d 5m - Win
Rd 06 2008: Milne 0.1 11d 5m - Surjan 16d 3m - Win
Rd 18 2008: Milne 1.0 15d 4m - Surjan 1.1 15d 3m - Loss
Rd 05 2009: Milne 3.2 13d 7m - Surjan 12d 4m - Loss
Rd 05 2010: Milne 1.1 13d 4m - Surjan 19d 6m - Win
Rd 01 2012: Milne 2.2 12d 4m - Surjan 14d 5m - Win

I actually think they are useless, and that I wasted 20 minutes finding them. Oh well.

Either way, the comparison you are making is between a guy who was a very good small defender between 2007 and half of 2010, and quite arguably one of the best in the league for a couple of those years. Who has since played 21 out of a possible 53 games, and has been delisted.

You are comparing this player who has been delisted, and barely looked at by a single other club, to the small foward who has kicked more over 50 goals in 6/12 seasons in the AFL. Who has kicked more goals than any single AFL small forward, ever. And who is widely considered the best small forward in the last 20 years.

What the hell?

Take a look at Heath Shaw. He is far and away a better player than Jacob Surjan from what I have seen, maybe not better defensively, but what he offers to a side is just ridiculously superior. There are a number of other players that are in the same boat AFAIC. To me Jacob Surjan can do a good job, but the players who play his position in other teams are just better. He has gone completely backwards since approx. 2009, while players in other teams have far surpassed him.

It is fun and all to say he could have been all-australian in 2008 or whatever, but to say he is the best small defender in the league in 2012 is just absurd.

FWIW I liked Jacob Surjan, but I just feel the way people love him on here is ridiculous.

You comparing him to Milne offends me as much as me comparing Matt Thomas to Gary Ablett would offend you.

 

[Power Raid]

Surjan has never been a bad player. We're delisting 26-27 year olds who when fit play great football. We have a new fitness coach. We have a new senior coach.

I have absolutely no problem delisting Rodan. Allowing Chaplin to walk was a terrific move. Not giving Pearce and Surjan an opportunity to prove themselves under Hinkley and Burgess, while we retain Salter, Logan, Thomas and Daniel Stewart is the height of poor management.

One can only hope Salter, Logan, Thomas and Daniel Stewart are next years clearance sale. Add to that Cassisi and Cornes and the job is about complete.

 

[oporto]

I looked at the stats from Milne vs Surjan possible games to see if he beats him every time. I can't make too much from them other than that Surjan probably beat Milne every time they played on eachother in 07/08 and its kind of towards Milne since then. Here are the stats along with whether we won or not.

Rd 16 2006: Milne 1.1 14d 5m - Surjan 0.1 9d 4m - Loss
Rd 05 2007: Milne 2.1 10d 3m - Surjan 19d 5m - Win
Rd 06 2008: Milne 0.1 11d 5m - Surjan 16d 3m - Win
Rd 18 2008: Milne 1.0 15d 4m - Surjan 1.1 15d 3m - Loss
Rd 05 2009: Milne 3.2 13d 7m - Surjan 12d 4m - Loss
Rd 05 2010: Milne 1.1 13d 4m - Surjan 19d 6m - Win
Rd 01 2012: Milne 2.2 12d 4m - Surjan 14d 5m - Win

I actually think they are useless, and that I wasted 20 minutes finding them. Oh well.

Either way, the comparison you are making is between a guy who was a very good small defender between 2007 and half of 2010, and quite arguably one of the best in the league for a couple of those years. Who has since played 21 out of a possible 53 games, and has been delisted.

You are comparing this player who has been delisted, and barely looked at by a single other club, to the small foward who has kicked more over 50 goals in 6/12 seasons in the AFL. Who has kicked more goals than any single AFL small forward, ever. And who is widely considered the best small forward in the last 20 years.

What the hell?

Take a look at Heath Shaw. He is far and away a better player than Jacob Surjan from what I have seen, maybe not better defensively, but what he offers to a side is just ridiculously superior. There are a number of other players that are in the same boat AFAIC. To me Jacob Surjan can do a good job, but the players who play his position in other teams are just better. He has gone completely backwards since approx. 2009, while players in other teams have far surpassed him.

It is fun and all to say he could have been all-australian in 2008 or whatever, but to say he is the best small defender in the league in 2012 is just absurd.

FWIW I liked Jacob Surjan, but I just feel the way people love him on here is ridiculous.

You comparing him to Milne offends me as much as me comparing Matt Thomas to Gary Ablett would offend you.

You should probably stop talking about topics you've demonstrated little knowledge about

 

[TheFVK]

I am happy we have parted way with Chaplin and Pearce. Not because I have any ill feeling toward them, but they clearly weren't happy at Port.

BTW I mentioned previously that, I had heard, some players felt belittled and frustrated by their dealings with Rhode (yes, this is hearsay). One of the guys I was referring to was Pearce. If the feedback I received is correct I am glad he has moved on.

For as much as I am not a fan of Rhode, everyone at the club must pull together to achieve our goals. If anyone is not in the right mental frame, they should move on.

I wish Chappy and Pearce the best. Hopefully PAFC can do something with the compensation and build for the future.

So our list manager- the guy in charge of managing player contracts and retention- is belittling and frustrating the guys he is supposed to be negotiating with- and it is the players you want gone?!?

Uh huh

 

[Power Raid]

So our list manager- the guy in charge of managing player contracts and retention- is belittling and frustrating the guys he is supposed to be negotiating with- and it is the players you want gone?!?

Uh huh

re-read the first sentence and the third paragraph.

I guess its about morale. Pearce, Chaplin nor I can do anything about Rhode. So if you cant change the world; change the things you can!

 

[Peck]

You should probably stop talking about topics you've demonstrated little knowledge about

You sir, are a tool

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Powermen#15]

The hypocrisy in our football department is staggering. It seems like all of the justifications for the dumb decisions they make can be cancelled out by pointing to those justifications being ignored when it comes to inferior players.

If we let Pearce go because we won't give out 4 year contracts, why did we give one to Angus Monfries?
If we let Pearce go because he wasn't 100% committed to the cause, why did we try so hard to get Ben Jacobs to stay?
If we delisted Surjan because of injury concerns, why are we trying to re-sign Salter and Hitchcock?
If we wouldn't give Mitch Banner a chance because of concerns about his defensive efforts, why did David Rodan get a month's worth of games at the end of the season?

Fact is they're just shit at identifying talent and pretty much all of the justifications people have tried to put on their shit decisions can be addressed like the above ones have been.

Keeping Tom Logan and (reportedly) chasing Henry Slattery while delisting Jacob Surjan is not a 'marginal at best criticism'. That'd be like St. Kilda delisting Stephen Milne to chase Simon Phillips. Except worse, because Surjan is only 26.

Thomas has to realize this... Do cripps and rhode have any idea about football. Seems like there putting trust in their magic eight ball at the moment

 

[Portmanteau]

The hypocrisy in our football department is staggering. It seems like all of the justifications for the dumb decisions they make can be cancelled out by pointing to those justifications being ignored when it comes to inferior players.

If we let Pearce go because we won't give out 4 year contracts, why did we give one to Angus Monfries?
If we let Pearce go because he wasn't 100% committed to the cause, why did we try so hard to get Ben Jacobs to stay?
If we delisted Surjan because of injury concerns, why are we trying to re-sign Salter and Hitchcock?
If we wouldn't give Mitch Banner a chance because of concerns about his defensive efforts, why did David Rodan get a month's worth of games at the end of the season?

Fact is they're just shit at identifying talent and pretty much all of the justifications people have tried to put on their shit decisions can be addressed like the above ones have been.

Someone facsimile this post to KT

 

[S.Patrol.G]

If the rumours of telling Pearce that we don't give out 4 year contracts and then giving one to Angus Monfries are true, I don't blame him. I know which one I'd rather have on my list next year.

Maybe what Pearce was actually told went something like "4 years? We don't give 4 year contracts to senior players who are lazy, play for themselves, deliver their best infrequently and need the odd dropping in the hope they might, one day, deliver the type of football that deserves the money and security they demand."

As for training ethic, attitude, team first footy and professionalism I know which one I'd rather have too.

 

[Port01]

Maybe what Pearce was actually told went something like "4 years? We don't give 4 year contracts to senior players who are lazy, play for themselves, deliver their best infrequently and need the odd dropping in the hope they might, one day, deliver the type of football that deserves the money and security they demand."

As for training ethic, attitude, team first footy and professionalism I know which one I'd rather have too.

We will find out next year if their laziness was personal or cultural at Port Adelaide. Personally I believe the entire football department is (was) riddled with people who take shortcuts and lack absolute professionalism. Professionalism includes knowing if you are doing too much or if you have adequate support and taking steps to rectify it, so that excuse doesn't wash with me.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

I'm pleased enough with the compensation picks. Not as good as I hoped, but not as bad as I expected.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

We will find out next year if their laziness was personal or cultural at Port Adelaide. Personally I believe the entire football department is (was) riddled with people who take shortcuts and lack absolute professionalism. Professionalism includes knowing if you are doing too much or if you have adequate support and taking steps to rectify it, so that excuse doesn't wash with me.

I'm, not for a second, blaming Pearce for all that is wrong. I agree that there's plenty wrong and we'll quickly see change if the right appointments have been made.

Personally, I'm glad Pearce and Chaplin are gone. As for laziness, it's personal but it's the environment that allows lazy people to remain.

 

[240volt]

Still a week of this to go, i still hold faith that we won't bring in Slattery and Campbell.
As bad as i believe our recruiting has been...(and you know how bad i think it is) i can't see them being this stupid.
Seriously they can't do it

 

[Phhht]

We will find out next year if their laziness was personal or cultural at Port Adelaide. .

So after what 8 years or whatever it is do you honestly believe that he (Pearce) would have changed his spots especially if we had signed him up for 4 years?

 

[oporto]

So our list manager- the guy in charge of managing player contracts and retention- is belittling and frustrating the guys he is supposed to be negotiating with- and it is the players you want gone?!?

Uh huh

I heard rumours some time ago that Rohde had been openly deriding our players [I'm sure I'm on record saying that some time ago] and that during this process Cripps and Rohde haven't been able to remain impartial and are merely removing the players who have stood up to their Draconian and improper running of our club. Their actions during this trade/delist/free agency period tends to support the people who told me of these

Also, the four year contract thing, as far as I am aware is true. Rohde is a cancer and is killing the club from the inside. The footy ops manager should be working with the players not pulling against them

Don't get me wrong, change is needed and necessary but not from the current idiots who have instigated it

 

[bomberclifford]

I heard rumours some time ago that Rohde had been openly deriding our players

Whatever you might think of Rohde, some of our players need to harden the **** up.
The way they've performed collectively over the last 5 years, there should be more of our coaches/staff 'openly deriding' them.

 

[Port01]

So after what 8 years or whatever it is do you honestly believe that he (Pearce) would have changed his spots especially if we had signed him up for 4 years?

Not necessarily, he may be his own worst enemy, but I do think Ross Lyon will be more likely to turn him around than Primus would have been. Hinkley is still an unknown.

 

[chachi11]

Collingwood is interested in russell....

So a team that has match winners on every line wants russell, yet we dont want him.????

 

[oporto]

Whatever you might think of Rohde, some of our players need to harden the **** up.
The way they've performed collectively over the last 5 years, there should be more of our coaches/staff 'openly deriding' them.

I'm not going to disagree with you that the players share responsibility in the demise of the PAFC, but everyone at the club is being set up to fail with Peter Rohde holding a high ranking position. He's not qualified for the role and his "performance" openly suggests so. When you tell players you don't give out four year contracts then hand them out to multiple players across multiple years that doesn't reflect well on your professionalism

The players have been held responsible for their across the board poor performances where he and Cripps have not

 

[cj_09]

Collingwood is interested in russell....

So a team that has match winners on every line wants russell, yet we dont want him.????

Hmmm... He's one player I'd like to see at Port.