Autopsy Rd 17 Blues lose to the bottom side after awful first half

[skadoosh]

Huge benefits

But no relevance to us?

 

[SurreyBlue]

Listening to Carlton fans on talk back today has made me more outraged. Coming up short when you have left everything on the field is one thing but not being prepared to give your all at the contest is another!!
The question that needs to be answered is; How is it, that this club keeps failing to show endeavor, hunger and willingness to win at all costs, in every single important game?

 

[pumped]

100%

Sometimes teams (especially ours) just don't come to play. You can have all the structures & gameplans in the world (and these guys do) but if you arent mentally prepared you lose.

Its been years since this team has come out onto the ground looking like they are ready to play and it shows.

 

[Arr0w]

Easily. When there’s an expectation that we maintain focus and take the initiative (start of games/three quarter time with a lead) we are regularly poor. When the expectation is lifted (several goals behind/game we’re expected to lose) we find the intensity to match or surpass the opposition.

Okay, so I have this right

Are you suggesting all our point swings against, loses and or bad moments/qtrs/games is down to weak mentality, but our strong periods has nothing to do with mental strength?

 

[Arr0w]

But no relevance to us?

Wouldn't all clubs embrace these learnings? The ones that have point swings for and against? Bottom sides and top sides?

Perhaps do some research on the benefits of talent, continuity and experience in team sports, it is enlightening

 

[95blues]

Pretty sure we had the similar discussion on here about 2 years ago except the topic was that there was no such thing as "gameplans and structure".

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

This club needs some methamphetamines, bring in Bomber Thompson and Brad Scott to help out Teague.

 

[blue healer]

I disagree, not sure how you don't consider players like Betts, McGovern, Cripps and Doc as part of our senior players.

Cripps offers nothing defensively and is hobbled.

McGovern offers nothing either offensively or defensively.

Betts bless him but he is past it.

Levi has been horrid for weeks.

These players are getting games which sets the standards and what is acceptable.

Our club is the equivalent of a participation ribbon.

But people love potting Newnes and Gibbo. Who actually crack in and give it all regardless of not being the most talented players in the AFL.

I'd take effort over half arse arm flails paying for frees any day of the week

Okay, your original statement was "I honestly can't blame our kids for how they act considering the standards our senior players set" and this is what I responded to believing your point was about their playing standards and I conceded that Murphy is not a two way runner and that Levi is an average player but a trier by any definition.

If your point was that the M/C are setting a low bar by picking them that's a different discussion and not one that I'm interested in, the M/C are in a much better position than I to judge who plays and who doesn't. Geez, I've wanted Kennedy back in the team for weeks and they won't return my calls.

But you've added McGovern, Betts, Cripps and Doc as part of the senior players so using my interpretation of your point:

McGovern: may be a senior player in age but has played fewer games than at least 2 of our kids who are three years younger. Arguable that you would call him a senior player in terms of games played. BTW I agree that I cannot see why he is a regular, but then I've never been a fan of his recruitment.

Betts: I agree that he is past his best but, despite this, there are few in the team that work harder. I also believe there is an inspirational factor with him on the ground.

Cripps: down on his usual form but anyone who thinks he doesn't set a high standard isn't watching the same games that I am.

Doc: read as for Cripps and also allow for the two years he lost. I reckon his return has been far better than I expected, still leaves nothing out there.

I've always been a fan of the way Gibbons goes about it and Newnes has grown on me.

Of all players mentioned McGovern is the only one I think is being gifted games.

 

[blue healer]

Pretty sure we had the similar discussion on here about 2 years ago except the topic was that there was no such thing as "gameplans and structure".

Had it when Ratts was coach as well.

 

[twodoor monarch]

We used to be with "it", then they changed what "it" was.

Now what we're with isn't "it", and what is is weird and confusing to us.

as we know: there are known its, there are its we know we know. We also know there are known unknown its; that is to say we know there are some its we do not know........

 

[HBF]

So there’s a few.

Point is, we had more players with 15 games than any other side.

Where other sides were managing players during short blocks of games, we kept ours out on the park.

Don’t think the players have been managed particularly well.

I don't think you'll get much argument from many others posters here about resting players.
This was a major stuff up from within the footy club

 

[HARKER]

i've played plenty of footy and have played in mentally weak sides. it's a real thing.

I'd have to come and see it.

 

[HBF]

have you read some of the stuff being written?

Eh?

 

[Arr0w]

The point is; There's nothing behind those players.
We can't just manufacture players out of thin air, nor play other terribly out of form players, for these terribly out of form players.

The cupboard was bare.

The cupboard wasn't bare start of the season. I prefer 2 KPF's, and a 3rd tall/resting rickman, but you don't ignore or accept continuous poor form

In 2016, Tigers had a number of injuries to taller types, while others were either out of form and or not capable at the time.

They made the decision to back in form players, hence the fad of a small forward line.

While it wasn't sustainable, they adapted

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Need to start making hard calls

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agreed but let's look at them very carefully

 

[HARKER]

The cupboard wasn't bare start of the season. I prefer 2 KPF's, and a 3rd tall/resting rickman, but you don't ignore or accept continuous poor form
In 2016, Tigers had a number of injuries to taller types, while others were either out of form and or not capable at the time.

They made the decision to back in form players, hence the fad of a small forward line.
While it wasn't sustainable, they adapted

We knew we were up against it with early injuries and knew that the weird formatting of the scratch matches wouldn't serve our youth.
I have little confidence that those who may have been brought in for McGovern and Betts would have somehow been obviously better.

Whichever way though, that's in the past now. One more game to go and the work begins.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Just some thoughts here...

1. Judging ‘where we are’ vs ‘where we should be/where we predicted’ is only useful to decide whether we should be frustrated, or the degree to which we should be frustrated. Otheriwse it is only timing. The fact some ‘knew’ preseason we would be here and others had different views....is totally irrelevant to anything other than emotion.
2. So we ARE here. Missing finals. Looking back is only useful (other than for cathartic reasons) in order to learn and do better in the future.
3. So what have we learnt or already knew?
- the backline needs pace
- fhe midfield needs pace and skill
- the game plan needs adjusting go incorporate a second gear because the high press leaks like a sieve when we lose the contest.
- we need more ‘difference’ players.
4. What are the options to fill the gaps?
(A) from within (list)
(B) from draft
(C) trade / FA

We have plenty of cap space to go after some options in C. The Internal options for the midfield are Cunners, Martin, Gibbons and Fisher. We would do well to trial all as mids extensively in the preseason.

The main hopes I have are (a) rhat our coaching group realise they really hurt the development of the list in hindsight. They chased finals at the expense of improving Cunners etc. You can see why. Bolton lost his job doing that same thing. But it was an error. So let’s rethink next year and make sure we improve our long term ability. (B) I hope we are very aggressive at the trade table. I hope that aggression allows them to cut more older players. I can’t see any role for Betts next year.

Anyway, my main thing is for us to hope we learn and change and do better. No point getting too worked up really.

And besides: good chance you’ll be enjoying my preseason posts soon!

Some great points and insight there so thanks .

I agree the club pretty much put the rebuild on hold to chase wins and finals over the latter part of the season and for what and why . ?
We arent anywhere near a realistic chance this year or next to win a premiership so why on earth would you not set up players in postions that will enhance our fortunes going forward .
To appease supporters to keep the media at bay to take some heat off the prez and board so lets get some wins .
Bearing in mind that most likely 6 wins or less and the club would be under real pressure .
Weve got 7 which imo given our lack of rotation other than for injury compared to other clubs is barely a pass imo .
I believe we also had a very favourable draw .
I remember SOS saying he was picking a list to win premierships or atleast endovouring too not a list just to make finals .
The way we went about this year especially in the second half was to make the 8 not to win a premiership in 2 to 3 years .
Imo the club has lost faith in the some of the younger players its clear with their selections and positional moves .

If ever there was a season to rotate players this was it yet Murphy Cripps on one leg and Simpson played all games Betts played most .
A number of players were given 1 or 2 game Obrien Honey to name 2 .
Why not 4 or 5 .
In shortened games If ever it was time to place Cuningham and SPS into the middle full time this year was it .
These positional moves will most likely come and im mainly emphasizing the second half of this shortened season but much better in the real stuff than what are now mickey mouse pre season games or atleast thats the way we treat them .
Actually pretty disappointed in Teague and the club for their short sightedness again mainly back half of the season . .

 

[Franc de Borges]

Okay, so I have this right

Are you suggesting all our point swings against, loses and or bad moments/qtrs/games is down to weak mentality, but our strong periods has nothing to do with mental strength?

It’s pretty clear that I’m suggesting that we regularly fail to deal with pressure.

 

[Arr0w]

It’s pretty clear that I’m suggesting that we regularly fail to deal with pressure.

Again, do you believe this is purely mental, rather than structures, gameplan, setups and or tactics?

 

[juzz88]

Dead set, if the club acts like there needs to be a royal commission to investigate "Chair-gate", then we have the wrong people running the club.

Two blokes chairing off their mate after his last game is not the reason we've been shizenhouzen the last few weeks.

 

[katmanblue]

There's always gotta be a "man in Black"

And a Gunslinger chasing him.

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[katmanblue]

Fair enough.

I think he needs to get rid of that damn stutter. He does that then builds momentum off 2 steps after it to kick.

Yeah the stutter feels like a good approximation of his year to fair.

When he 'just plays' it's great. Wish he would just run straight in.

But when he tries too much, or thinks too much it ends in disaster.

I think his leadership has suffered this year too. Not sure if, after last year without Doc, he wants to defer to him a bit. Not step on toes etc. Or its his off field that's not letting him relax.

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[lilJeffyG]

Coronavirus restrictions has essentially meant mid-forward connection cannot be trained

So, the same as every other team.

 

[katmanblue]

Now we are finally getting somewhere.

So as the opposition throws something different at us, how do we combat that on a consistent basis, how do we prevent and or minimize it

Case in point the Crows, it's been clear where they have improved in the last couple of weeks and the style they want too pla. How did we combat that?

We lay down

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[katmanblue]

We used to be with "it", then they changed what "it" was.

Now what we're with isn't "it", and what is is weird and confusing to us.

Love the 'it' you're with.

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