Autopsy Rd 2 Blues suffer bitterly disappointing loss to arch rival

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Lost me with the last sentence.
Must build a ruthless winning culture at all costs.

Not with the same senior players who are letting us down. I think the injection of youth will help us, but if it made us worse temporarily, I'd rather that than be mediocre and not get games into those guys.

We have to make changes for next week.

 

[Red Bull]

Not with the same senior players who are letting us down. I think the injection of youth will help us, but if it made us worse temporarily, I'd rather that than be mediocre and not get games into those guys.

We have to make changes for next week.

Teague’s preferences have been clear from the beginning of his tenure.
Disagreed with his philosophy and lack of imagination/foresight then and it’s even more evident now.
If he’s to stubborn, weak or stupid to move the team forward, he’ll swing with them soon enough ...

 

[myblueroan]

im gutted.

Yep

Nah, there’s respect between the clubs and supporters. Almost affectionate.
It is, after all, a rivalry between two proper footy clubs.

Delusiondon on the other hand, that’s where the real antipathy resides.

A lot of mixed marriages too.

 

[myblueroan]

Walsh looked genuinely p***ed off walking off the ground after the loss.

Maybe he's going to Freo with Crippa?

 

[Poorman53]

I've turned the corner from Thursdays loss.

It's not all doom and gloom, we just need the team to click and tighten up defensively which Teague mentioned in his press conference, thank goodness.

We have the pieces we just need them to fire together. I'm a strong advocate for getting some youth and enthusiasm into the line up next week, not relying on a 35 to give us a pep in our step. Parks, Stocker and Carroll should all be front of mind.

Last season Setterfield solidified himself as an AFL footballer as an inside mid, the first two weeks have shown he isn't a wingman, let's get him back in the guts and get Curnow out who can run all day on a wing or HFF.

We now need 3-4 of LOB, Dow, Cunningham, Stocker, Williamson, McGovern and Fisher + JSOS to a lesser extent to really come on. This is the group that will have the biggest impact on the season because it means the load is spread more evenly and everybody is playing their role

Looking forward to Easter Sunday and what the response will be from the Blue boys!

 

[myblueroan]

I've turned the corner from Thursdays loss.

It's not all doom and gloom, we just need the team to click and tighten up defensively which Teague mentioned in his press conference, thank goodness.

We have the pieces we just need them to fire together. I'm a strong advocate for getting some youth and enthusiasm into the line up next week, not relying on a 35 to give us a pep in our step. Parks, Stocker and Carroll should all be front of mind.

Last season Setterfield solidified himself as an AFL footballer as an inside mid, the first two weeks have shown he isn't a wingman, let's get him back in the guts and get Curnow out who can run all day on a wing or HFF.

We now need 3-4 of LOB, Dow, Cunningham, Stocker, Williamson, McGovern and Fisher + JSOS to a lesser extent to really come on. This is the group that will have the biggest impact on the season because it means the load is spread more evenly and everybody is playing their role

Looking forward to Easter Sunday and what the response will be from the Blue boys!

Not there yet myself.
If we change coach and keep Barker and Stanton it will be microwave and ticket at dawn.
Hopefully Teague turns this around and makes changes if he needs to.

 

[Poorman53]

Not there yet myself.
If we change coach and keep Barker and Stanton it will be microwave and ticket at dawn.
Hopefully Teague turns this around and makes changes if he needs to.

He didn't last year make the tough call on selection let's hope he does this year, change the mix. Fingers crossed.

 

[BlueTang]

I think the amount of calls to radio stations, posts on social media etc. regarding dropping of seniors players will put enough pressure on the club to swing the axe this week. They say they don’t listen to this type of feedback, but we all know they do. I hope there is at least 3 dropped.

 

[Accidental genius]

Walsh looked genuinely p***ed off walking off the ground after the loss.

Absolutely hates losing. Wish we had a few more like him.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Maybe he's going to Freo with Crippa?

It might be a good line for a laugh but this is what actually happens to long term incompetent, underperforming teams. Their good players leave to play in successful environments.

 

[bigblueboy]

Having attended on Thursday night, wanted to see the replay before posting as I was surprised by some of the immediate observations, albeit the frustration is understandable.

positives ...

Dow: was very good in the first quarter when the rest of our mids were struggling. Was in and out after that (spent a long time on the pine) but his handballing was excellent and tackling improved. Still doesn’t run hard enough defensively and isn’t always clean in picking up ground balls. I’m more positive than most about his prospects.

Fogarty: was tough and clean for most of the night. Great pick-up.

Fisher: was really good but needs to go with the first option more often and back himself on set shots.

Gibbons: kicked some freakish goals but his field kicking was terrible. Always has a crack which is more than you can say for some others.

Harry: was slaughtered by Moore but kicked four goals. So much scope .

williams: started well but faded. Needs to be more outside. Wing?

Martin: Has it all but can’t run for long periods as a mid. Another example of a player the coaching team don’t seem to have fully worked out yet.

SPS: don’t get the harsh criticism. Being played out of his comfort zone. Needs to keep improving but showed some real desperation and foot skills at times - and it’s not as if we have an over abundance of those traits.

docherty: was much better this week but still a couple of bad turnovers. Back him in.


Negatives ...

Williamson: looks tired at round 2? Has no physical presence and struggled both defensively and offensively. Needs a spell.

Setterfield: terrible. Sulking at his role? Not sure why he is playing on a wing. He is the inside mid who should be rotating with Cripps. Has shown he can de dangerous forward when resting ... yet we are asking hi to play defensively. Odd.

Murphy: been a big defender but enough is enough. Was run ragged by Quaynor ... a second year kid. No physical presence. Club needs to make a statement by dropping him.

Casboult: injured/unfit. Would prefer McDonald in the short term.

Curnow: love Ed but his disposal is a killer.

Plowman: as I said in the preview, is always the scapegoat against Collingwood as their small forwards expose his lack of pace off the mark. How the coaches didnt identify this in advance baffles me - they’ve being doing it for years.

Toughness: opposition will love to play us. No enforcers, few tackling skills (Fogarty the exception), and little defensive running in the midfield. These aspects must be addressed.

It strikes me that the coaching group hasn’t yet worked out where players are best suited. And rather than play to strengths, they are attempting to fill gaps by reskilling. That’s a good strategy if players receive the right guidance and support to adapt to a new role. No evidence that this is being achieved in my view.

as examples:
Murphy - mid now a forward
Fisher - mid now a forward
Gibbons - mid now a forward
SPS - mid now a back
Setterfield - inside mid now a wing
Curnow - inside mid now a wing
Williams - half back now a inside mid
Williamson - back now a wing

Thats 1/3 of the team being played out of their prime position. Maybe our list profile is not right but I would argue the talent is there. We need to be tougher at the selection table and pick players who can play their role, who are tougher and who are best fit for the role.

 

[Accidental genius]

Yeah Setters would ,they'd play him in the guts and half forward where he plays his best footy.

setters may be good in years to come but i cant see it atm. However I do need to watch him more carefully when he plays as an inside mid.

 

[rp84]

Absolutely hates losing. Wish we had a few more like him.

He probably hurt his team mates feelings by caring about losing

 

[Gavstar]

Nice thoughts agree 1/3 of the team on the pitch is not being played to their strengths. Wasn't this Teagues mantra.

Seems slightly insane.

 

[agro]

Having attended on Thursday night, wanted to see the replay before posting as I was surprised by some of the immediate observations, albeit the frustration is





?

Plowman: as I said in the preview, is always the scapegoat against Collingwood as their small forwards expose his lack of pace off the mark. How the coaches didnt identify this in advance baffles me - they’ve being doing it for

And no good one on one - so who or what type of players can he actually play on.

 

[Broadside]

And no good one on one - so who or what type of players can he actually play on.

I would like to try him in the midfield.

 

[Brackets]

Jotted down some thoughts while rewatching following quarters.

2nd Quarter
- Martin works hard to provide an option in the middle - he and SPS two of the only players that provide multiple leads
- Setters and Willo look totally lost and devoid of confidence
- Saad lets Daicos run in unchecked for the goal - very poor
- Doc let's his man run in unchecked for the goal assist - just as bad
- How tf was this called a mark though

Anyway...

3rd Quarter
- Walsh great but entry inside 50 not so
- Cripps isn't a forward. Can't lead and easy stationary target to spoil
- Dow poor. He's not up to it.
- Murph, Dow, Setters all putting in short steps.
- SPS goes in to impact contest, no one looks to cover his man (Newnes should have) and it sets up a shot and goal
- Really poor forward 50 pressure. Non existent from our small forwards
- Harry was schooled despite the goals
- Sick of seeing the Daicos family more than some of our players

4th Quarter
- Dow poor, does more pointing than manning
- Setters poor, Willo poor, Murph unsighted
- Harry falls and concedes the contest for the nth time. The amount of our players that do this looking for a free in our forward 50 is a joke. Harry, Cripps, Murph, Williams all guilty
- Doc's disposal is quite good apart from the odd howler. I'm concerned about his ability to defend though.
- SPS playing too loose. Someone mentioned they want half backs that can defend - it's a good point
- Quaynor somehow worries Cas out of it
- This piece of ineptitude


Never heard of Noble before, but he killed us and I'd love to have him on our team

We have a lot to work on.

 

[Lace_Out]

Going to be very interesting to see how much Cripps' effectiveness is well... affected... by the changing game style as the season goes on.

The great thing about champions is they just find a way to adapt to change and find another way to excel. It's just what makes them who they are.

I'm backing him in, and it won't take too long either.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[TheVapors]

Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1	6-4 (10)
Williams Cripps Walsh	Grundy wins tap then ball, misdirected handball, Williams to Saad for poor I50
Walsh Williams Cripps	Pitto wins tap to Cripps, back to Pitt for I50 clearance
Ed Dow Cripps	Pendlebury beats Dow, clears to wing and Pies work it forward. Murph and Willo soft.
Dow Ed Walsh (LC)	Adams beats Walsh, short kick forward, Doc out-marked
Walsh Dow Ed (LC)	Dow fumbles, backs up to Ed to Walsh for clearance
Ed, Williams, Walsh	Grundy taps, Williams fumbles, Walsh to Ed who has time but just throws on the boot for poor clearance
Walsh Williams Ed	Grundy wins tap, Walsh causes dispute, Williams kicks forward to Fish who wins free
Walsh Dow Cripps	Grundy wins tap, Cripps kicks along ground, end up on our HF but Pies win disputed ball. Dow very poor.
Walsh Cripps Williams	Adams grabs Williams. Williams grabs Adams. Pies free obviously.
Walsh Cripps Williams	Grundy wins tap, Pies win dispute and clear to wing
Quarter 2	6-5 (11)
Williams Walsh Cripps	Pitto falls, Cripps with the agility of a tractor, Daicos steps around our mids with ease
Williams Walsh Cripps	Cripps roves Grundy tap, slips and should have won the free but Pies clear
Walsh Williams Cripps	Williams roves, clear to forward square but Murph out-marked.
Setters Cripps Martin	Pitto wins tap to Martin, handball to Setters who handballs too wide and Pies win clearance
Dow Williams Walsh	Walsh wins to Ed on wing who fumbles, Cas good block, Walsh competitive and gets it to our favour
Setters Walsh Williams	Grundy wins tap, Walsh tackles Adams who throws it out, Walsh wins it back anyway and breaks away
Cripps Walsh Williams	Stoppage, Pies hack it forward, Williamson weak in the contest
Walsh Williams Cripps	Grundy wins tap, Cripps does well to cause stoppage. Walsh with clearance
Walsh Dow Cripps	Pitto hacks forward, stoppage forward square.
Ed Dow Walsh	Dow's man breaks away for deep I50 clearance
Cripps Walsh Williams	Grundy wins tap but Cripps finally out works his opponent for the clearance
Quarter 3	3-3 (7)
Williams Walsh Cripps	Grundy wins tap, Cripps in strong but errand handball, defensive square stoppage. Neither team credited.
Williams Walsh Cripps	Caz wins tap then ends up with it for clearance kick to forward square
Walsh Dow Martin	Pitto slips, Martin on the move, roves and gets it out to Dow for I50 clearance
Walsh Dow Martin	Gundy wins tap to Adams for I50 clearance
Williams Dow Martin	Martin busy, Williams strong, stoppage. Dow's tackle broken for Pies I50
Williams Dow Ed	Pitto wins a rare tap, Ed too busy tagging, Fog goes and wins what our mids should have
Williams Dow Ed	Playing behind again, Adams throws, Dow poor, Pies I50 clearance
Quarter 4	4-1 (5)
Walsh Cripps Ed	Grundy wins tap, Ed playing behind, Adams strong and hacks it I50
Walsh Cripps Ed	Pitto wins tap, Cripps strong, Ed, Walsh and Saad involved but poor I50
Martin Ed Williams	Pitto wins tap, Williams breaks away for deep I50
Setters Walsh Ed	Caz beats Grundy after tap, hacks forward, Walsh, Fog, Ed get involved for I50
Walsh Cripps Ed	Grundy wins tap, credit to Saad and Walsh after dispute
Total	19-13 (33)

Attended (clearance contributions)

	Total /33	Q1 /10	Q2 /11	Q3 /7	Q4 /5
Walsh	27 (9)	9 (3)	10(3)	4(1)	4(2)
Williams	20 (4)	6 (2)	8 (1)	5	1(1)
Cripps	19 (5)	6 (2)	8 (2)	2	3(1)
Ed	13 (3)	5 (2)	1	2	5(1)
Dow	12 (1)	4 (1)	3	5	0
Martin	5 (1)	0	1	3(1)	1
Setters	3	0	2	0	1

Most used:
Cripps Walsh Williams x12 (6-5)
Cripps Walsh Ed x3 (2-1)
Walsh Ed Dow x3 (1-3)

Observations
- Stats will suggest we won the centre clearances but it was far from convincing. Grundy dominated the hit outs but lacked touch. His hit-outs weren't damaging for the most part otherwise we may have been looking at a blow out.

- Pitto cannot get off the ground and is largely ineffective once it hits the deck. So far as centre bounces, I'd sooner see Casboult our no. 1 ruck with Cripps or Setters relieving. We've been smashed in the hit-outs two weeks in a row now, and lucky to not have been punished more.

- We're constantly caught behind the opposition, which is why we're not winning enough of the ground ball. We need to bring in an inside mid that can compete and win their own ball, because Walsh is glossing over how poor we currently are in this area.

- Ed either instructionally or instinctively plays a negating role on his man but it's to our detriment. It's not preventing the opposition's ability to win the clearance but it's hurting ours.

- Dow doesn't know whether to tag his man, hunt the ball or look for the outside receive, and ends up doing none successfully. He and Ed should not be lining up together at a clearance. Really we can probably only afford to carry one, and it's not a contest as to who.

- We almost entirely ignored our wingers in favour of the long ball. Going in short against the most in form interceptor in the game, you'd hope this wasn't by design.

- Martin needs to spend more time in the middle. If Setters is going to do the same, it needs to first be in reserves because he is lost at the moment.

- 5 minutes into the third we'd gone with Cripps, Walsh and Williams 12/23 bounces then didn't go with this combo again. Just found this interesting.

- Last week we rotated 6 players through while this week we used 7. Martin effectively replaced Fisher, while Williams took rotations from Cripps, Ed and Setters.

- Walsh was the youngest player on the ground which is just ridiculous. Our fortunes rest on his shoulders as much as Cripps and Judd before him. Luckily and unbelievably he may be better than both.

Just rewatched the first half with this for reference, and although the work put into it is commendable, there is a lot of personal opinion swaying some of the centre square analysis.

It's clear that Dow and Ed don't favour much sway with you, which is fine if you're offering an opinion on a platform that is all about opinions. But when Walsh fires a handball half a metre in front of Ed and the only comment is that Ed fumbled the ball, the analysis is clearly reported with a sense of bias. I'm no fan of Ed, and think he should be one of the first dropped, but let's at least assess our players to the same yardstick.

Same goes with Dow. If I only based my opinion of the game and your analysis, I could clearly deduce that Dow was the worst player on the pitch. Calling him "very poor" with absolutely no context is pretty strong language considering his man just beat him to the ball. If that is what constitutes "very poor", then Walsh and Williams had plenty of occasions on the night where similar analysis was justified. Not sure how they avoided being tarred with the same brush.

There are plenty of other examples where particular players have been, in my mind, unfairly judged as opposed to others. All I would say is to base your opinions on what you actually see, and not on what others with potential personal agendas might be reporting.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Never heard of Noble before, but he killed us and I'd love to have him on our team

We have a lot to work on.

One of those players who people still think is ordinary bc he made a few howlers early in his career. Is turning into a very good player. Son of David.

Agree with most of what you say as well. Good sign in a sense that H kicked 4 in such a poor performance, but can’t believe people seem satisfied with that. We will go nowhere as a team if willing to accept such soft efforts.

 

[Chookaradley]

And no good one on one - so who or what type of players can he actually play on.

Whilst I dont disagree with your sentiment, who do we have that can play on a guy like De Goey or Martin or Fyfe if they go forward?.

 

[AceAndy]

Not with the same senior players who are letting us down. I think the injection of youth will help us, but if it made us worse temporarily, I'd rather that than be mediocre and not get games into those guys.

We have to make changes for next week.

I thought there are 6 or 7 changes we need to make after Thursday but there seems to be a reluctance to make many changes so we might see 1 or 2 for the next match.

 

[agro]

Whilst I dont disagree with your sentiment, who do we have that can play on a guy like De Goey or Martin or Fyfe if they go forward?.

Blame the recruiting, we haven’t recruited a small defender since Stephen Browne.

 

[ShanDog]

The great thing about champions is they just find a way to adapt to change and find another way to excel. It's just what makes them who they are.

I'm backing him in, and it won't take too long either.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

He's a great player, no doubt. Just running possible scenarios in my head, and wondering whether he remains a feared midfielder as far as opposition are concerned. Or, thinking about worst-case-scenario, if Cripps were to surprise us all and ask for a trade, whether it would be quite the performance hit we would have thought it would have been 2-3 years ago.

 

[RedFury]

If I had to pick one thing right now over everything else (and there are quite a lot of things) it would be mental preparation. It was clear from both the lack of pressure and the repeated basic skill errors in the first half that we just were not sharp and switched on. It felt like we really only started to get rolling in the third quarter but by then it was difficult to change the narrative and although we had some good bursts, it felt like we were effectively being held at arms length.

If young teams like Adelaide and Sydney can show up from minute 0 and apply manic pressure to the opposition then why can't we? You don't need to be strong-bodied or experienced to show a desire to hunt the ball and the man. In the first half there was just no desire there from the blues, they were content to sit back and let Collingwood play their way.

Which, incidentally is the reason why Collingwood were made to look like a million bucks in the first half and score 11 goals vs their 9 in total against the dogs - they were allowed total freedom to play the game on their terms.

We seem to have a game plan built around aggressive ball movement - I sure hope that the team is being drilled that the type of slick ball movement you see from teams like Richmond (and hell even Adelaide & Sydney last week) doesn't just happen, it comes off the back of turning the ball over in key areas which in turn comes off the back of manic pressure and good defensive structure. If you don't get that last part you won't reliably get the opportunities for slick ball movement.

In the amazon doco there is a part very early on where Nicks says to the entire playing group that if you're not willing to defend and run both ways, from first bounce, then it doesn't matter who you are - pack your bag and there's the door. I think perhaps that message needs to be delivered to some of our players in an effective way, be that at team selection or otherwise.